New manager thread

[HoylandOwl]

8 minutes ago, Boracic Lint said:

The thing is DM became bigger than the club in the eyes of the media and some more 'vocal' social media.

Even so, we showed very little attacking wise, resorting to long balls into the area, much like DM did at the end of last season.

on the two points I've highlighted,

The first is exactly what I said/meant.

On the second, yeah, we have really struggled with this for so long. While last season we did score goals, at times it felt like pulling teeth as we were predictable, slow, but we got there because of those poorer League 1 defences. But the effort, and attitude helped us overrun a few sides last season who couldn't deal with it too. 

The championship is clearly VERY different. Defenders are more savvy, teams / managers in the main more so too. 

[Owling_Wolf]

33 minutes ago, Boracic Lint said:

And he's gone.

Wrong man, wrong time.

But with the backlash over DM leaving, the timing and the state of the squad, it was always a poisoned chalice.

I can see us struggling to get an English manager just because of the amount of work to get them up to standard, wouldn't be surprised if DM realised the same and engineered an exit by asking for something he knew Chandiri wouldn't agree to.

Wrong man any time, more like. Nice bloke but a crackpot choice in the circumstances. It's set us back miles, unnecessarily. 

[Boracic Lint]

Just now, Owling_Wolf said:

Wrong man any time, more like. Nice bloke but a crackpot choice in the circumstances. It's set us back miles, unnecessarily. 

Lack of options though.

Given a normal takeover at the start of the window, without the rest of the palaver he could have done it.

But then again, no manager who's tried discipline and fitness has lasted, think that some players aren't as committed to the club as they say they are.

[Owling_Wolf]

1 minute ago, Boracic Lint said:

Lack of options though.

Given a normal takeover at the start of the window, without the rest of the palaver he could have done it.

But then again, no manager who's tried discipline and fitness has lasted, think that some players aren't as committed to the club as they say they are.

There has to be better options than a flop in Cyprus. And I saw nothing to suggest he would have succeeded here - with that crazy man plan - in any circumstances. With respect, you're flogging a dead horse there, mate. 

[HoylandOwl]

Xisco's record besides his time at Watford, offered NOTHING to suggest he'd make a success of it. But we didn't know Carlos, before he came and that first season as we've done to death on here, at times was wonderful. 

But we didn't need a risk, we needed someone who injected a sense of belief, and when he said we'd play attacking football but we never saw even an ounce of it. Which meant he was onto a loss straight away in every sense. 

I wanted him to succeed, I really did. I was sick of the shit media coverage, sick of the shit around the club. Yeah, papering over the cracks would have been nice for a bit. But we got not even an ounce of it!

[Boracic Lint]

1 minute ago, Owling_Wolf said:

There has to be better options than a flop in Cyprus. And I saw nothing to suggest he would have succeeded here - with that crazy man plan - in any circumstances. With respect, you're flogging a dead horse there, mate. 

We don't know what was going on and being said behind the scenes.

Chansiri's public rants and statements were aimed at managers and agents, not Carlton Palmer.

If you're a manager, and rumours are going round that Chansiri has pulled the rug from under DM, leading to him quitting, as DM said, who are you going to believe?

Crazy Chansiri or 'Goodest bloke in football' Darren Moore?

The options available, may not have been options at all.

[Owling_Wolf]

27 minutes ago, Boracic Lint said:

We don't know what was going on and being said behind the scenes.

Chansiri's public rants and statements were aimed at managers and agents, not Carlton Palmer.

If you're a manager, and rumours are going round that Chansiri has pulled the rug from under DM, leading to him quitting, as DM said, who are you going to believe?

Crazy Chansiri or 'Goodest bloke in football' Darren Moore?

The options available, may not have been options at all.

That's just speculation and no proper reply to the two posts above. 

[Boracic Lint]

Just now, Owling_Wolf said:

That's just speculation and no proper reply to the two posts above. 

There has to be better options.

That's also speculation.

As I said, we don't know. Xisco could literally be the only manager who he could get in in that time frame under those conditions.

 

Maybe it could have worked, maybe it couldn't, we'll never know.

As Xisco said though, he tried teaching the old players, but they weren't getting it. 'Learner drivers' he said. But what he was teaching were the basics at this level, one touch, quick football, movement.

So he had to throw the baby out to try and enact change.

Look at today, no progression whatsoever from last season's players. No movement, still undisciplined, bad touches everywhere, still not getting the basics right.

Still trying to squeeze it down the sidelines or pass it back to our keeper.

When they're that entrenched in a style, but you know it's not going to work, what do you do? They're professional footballers FFS.

Changing formation shouldn't be that much of a challenge.

The u21s changed to the 4141 in preseason and took to it like ducks to water and have been going great guns.

Why can't the so called 'senior players'.

is it that they can't, or won't. 

Some have, players who were peripheral last year have been among our better performers tactically, Pato, Bakinson, while the senior 'stalwarts', the ones who should be setting an example, the leaders, have by and large been anonymous. Bannan, Windass, Gregory, Palmer, (even Byers, but I don't think he's fully fit.).

Maybe he felt he had to play his newer players as he wasn't getting the response he needed?

Yes, it's all speculation. But we're on the outside looking in and it's all we have.

[Owling_Wolf]

Speculation that he's the only manager in the world that we could get soon? Or speculation that there was more than just him?  Which seems more likely, I wonder?

[Boracic Lint]

11 minutes ago, Owling_Wolf said:

Speculation that he's the only manager in the world that we could get soon? Or speculation that there was more than just him?  Which seems more likely, I wonder?

He needed somebody in quick.

He needed somebody unemployed.

He needed somebody who had a team.

He needed somebody who would actually accept the job.

Can't see many managers with Champ experience who fit that bill at that exact time, as most of the usuals had been hired by then.

[Owling_Wolf]

1 hour ago, Boracic Lint said:

He needed somebody in quick.

He needed somebody unemployed.

He needed somebody who had a team.

He needed somebody who would actually accept the job.

Can't see many managers with Champ experience who fit that bill at that exact time, as most of the usuals had been hired by then.

There's so many been sacked in the Champ that there'd have been others. Plenty others. 

[Bellsview]

9 hours ago, Boracic Lint said:

Lack of options though.

Given a normal takeover at the start of the window, without the rest of the palaver he could have done it.

But then again, no manager who's tried discipline and fitness has lasted, think that some players aren't as committed to the club as they say they are.

It’s going back a bit but you’ve just summed up both Jack Charlton and even more so Howard Wilkinson with that sentence. 

Neither did too bad at SWFC and both lasted a fair while.

I know the game has moved on a bit since their time, but being both fit and disciplined are still key elements to a successful side. Look how Pep rules the roost at Man City for proof of that.

[Winco]

4 minutes ago, Bellsview said:

It’s going back a bit but you’ve just summed up both Jack Charlton and even more so Howard Wilkinson with that sentence. 

Neither did too bad at SWFC and both lasted a fair while.

I know the game has moved on a bit since their time, but being both fit and disciplined are still key elements to a successful side. Look how Pep rules the roost at Man City for proof of that.

For Professional footballers that shouldn’t even come into question. It’s there job to be fit especially this early in the season and be no way near blowing out of there arses half way through the second half.

[Bellsview]

1 minute ago, Winco said:

For Professional footballers that shouldn’t even come into question. It’s there job to be fit especially this early in the season and be no way near blowing out of there arses half way through the second half.

Totally agree mate. 

[mkowl]

Interesting debate 

I kept hearing about revolution not evolution with Xisco but I am not really sure what that was, certainly not left wing !

Anyway whilst I was a few days out, if I kept saying "be gone by the end of September" I would eventually get it right. My point is if you make the left field appointments then the probability of failure is quite high.

The problem is that the squad last year was solely built to get out of League 1. It was typical moneyball in many respects, get the most experienced and expensive players and it will be good enough to beat most the rest. Did Moore get the best out of those resources is a matter of conjecture. 

So a Moore side would probably have seen us higher but just out the relegation zone. The unknown is the signings that Moore might have suggested.

I mean of the new signings, I think the only improvement is Bernard, though the loss of M Diaby may have been pivotal.

Any new manager is starting with a very low base

[TheExile]

11 hours ago, Boracic Lint said:

And he's gone.

Wrong man, wrong time.

But with the backlash over DM leaving, the timing and the state of the squad, it was always a poisoned chalice.

I can see us struggling to get an English manager just because of the amount of work to get them up to standard, wouldn't be surprised if DM realised the same and engineered an exit by asking for something he knew Chandiri wouldn't agree to.

I think there was an element of this or at least ensuring he was paid well to try and do it. Harder to get leverage when it’s your own team though and he’s not going to have got that money at Huddersfield who also look very poor. Not sure if anyone really won.

[Boracic Lint]

1 hour ago, Bellsview said:

It’s going back a bit but you’ve just summed up both Jack Charlton and even more so Howard Wilkinson with that sentence. 

Neither did too bad at SWFC and both lasted a fair while.

I know the game has moved on a bit since their time, but being both fit and disciplined are still key elements to a successful side. Look how Pep rules the roost at Man City for proof of that.

But more recently we have Pulis and Xisco.

There was a load of stuff about players kicking off and crying to Chansiri because the training was too hard.

Funnily enough, the team won a load of games for NT after he left, using the systems he put in place only to regress a few games later.

There were even comments regarding XM about players not doing as asked and a distinct reversion from what they started with to how they play usually when under pressure.

Whereas Carlos and DM teams were both noticeably out of shape, but the players seemed happy.

It's not scientific by any means, just the impression I get that, as I said before, the tail wags the dog a bit here and the manager (including DM) isn't as free to do what they want as they should be.

[Winco]

The Sun saying it’s going to be Danny Rohl apparently.

and is 1/4 on skybet.

 

Edited October 8, 2023 by Winco

[Gleadless Owl]

46 minutes ago, mkowl said:

I mean of the new signings, I think the only improvement is Bernard, though the loss of M Diaby may have been pivotal.

Any new manager is starting with a very low base

Agree about Bernard and think Vasquez was unlucky not to keep his place. Dawson has improved, but he's not good enough for the Championship 

[Andyben]

Vasquez is simply a far better goalkeeper than Dawson.

Maybe the rest will.do him good but he needs to be back in ASAP 

[Teddy Nickelarse]

4 minutes ago, Andyben said:

Vasquez is simply a far better goalkeeper than Dawson.

Maybe the rest will.do him good but he needs to be back in ASAP 

I'm coming round to that thinking. He'd got a bit careless at times and a jolt might smarten him up. Needs to work on being more commanding on crosses too but he is very talented IMO.

[KrolMong]

The blindingly obvious issue with Xisco was that he had a very defined way of playing at Watford that paid dividends but was based on playing with a 60 million quid wage bill.

Has he tried to adopt that approach with us, because based on his signings I’m not sure what he was trying to build.

You could tell from pre season that we didn’t have a plan with or without the ball. That’s not bad luck, that’s just bad coaching. Yes, he might have taken a look and realised we aren’t going to play total football, but to not try and make us tight was unforgivable - that’s actually easy to do. I’m not overly interested in goals from open play, but, what was very worrying was chances created and missed against us on top of his silly zonal set-up that repeatedly failed.

The fact that we got to the end of August without his own left sided player but brought in two right sided players is bizarre. I don’t think I have ever seen such a bad group of signings made.

What we have got is a very poor squad, with a lack of firepower whose only chance of stopping up is hinging on a new coach getting us to Jan by being tight and disciplined, and then shipping out some of the shite from the summer and last season and hoping the owner is happy to support him despite what the supporters think of him.

[KrolMong]

And for the record. I think Danny Rohl could be an absolutely outstanding appointment but, he’s got to be given time by the supporters (which may include relegation this season), and he’s got to be given backing and autonomy by the owner.

A part of me is hoping this is DC going, right - I am building long term now. I happen to think this was his plan with DM until the summer.

[Owling_Wolf]

9 minutes ago, KrolMong said:

And for the record. I think Danny Rohl could be an absolutely outstanding appointment but, he’s got to be given time by the supporters (which may include relegation this season), and he’s got to be given backing and autonomy by the owner.

A part of me is hoping this is DC going, right - I am building long term now. I happen to think this was his plan with DM until the summer.

Sadly that doesn't sound like our fans or our owner. 

[HoylandOwl]

1 hour ago, Gleadless Owl said:

Agree about Bernard and think Vasquez was unlucky not to keep his place. Dawson has improved, but he's not good enough for the Championship 

As much as Vasquez maybe a little unlucky, I don't think Dawson did enough to lose his place either earlier in the season.

[MAL]

15 minutes ago, KrolMong said:

And for the record. I think Danny Rohl could be an absolutely outstanding appointment but, he’s got to be given time by the supporters (which may include relegation this season), and he’s got to be given backing and autonomy by the owner.

A part of me is hoping this is DC going, right - I am building long term now. I happen to think this was his plan with DM until the summer.

He will get time (not off everybody but most) "IF" they can see what he is trying to do.

Even with these players we have now.

[Winco]

8 minutes ago, Owling_Wolf said:

Sadly that doesn't sound like our fans or our owner. 

Both fans and owner have no other choice.

I reckon the “fans” will back off a bit now after DC threatened to stop paying cause even them thick ***** could see what was coming.

And DC knows he ain’t ever selling us buying letting us implode.

 

[HoylandOwl]

19 minutes ago, KrolMong said:

And for the record. I think Danny Rohl could be an absolutely outstanding appointment but, he’s got to be given time by the supporters (which may include relegation this season), and he’s got to be given backing and autonomy by the owner.

A part of me is hoping this is DC going, right - I am building long term now. I happen to think this was his plan with DM until the summer.

I think, if the fans can see some semblance of a plan, a structure, an idea, then by and large people would stick with it, despite disappointment. With Xisco, as has been said on so many occasions, there didn't seem to be a plan, a structure, or a passion or belief in what he was trying to do. 

[Owling_Wolf]

1 minute ago, HoylandOwl said:

I think, if the fans can see some semblance of a plan, a structure, an idea, then by and large people would stick with it, despite disappointment. With Xisco, as has been said on so many occasions, there didn't seem to be a plan, a structure, or a passion or belief in what he was trying to do. 

As should be the case. I do wonder if all the shit that's gone on from June through now has poisoned the well, though. If all the gobshite revolutionaries with their "Chansiri out!", their "happy clapper" and their "part of the problem" muck spreading will back off enough to allow anything that's tried at the club to prosper. Or anything like Roehl, wanting time and understanding, to have any of either. Especially if we're going down, which seems likely. 

[Supercockle]

1 hour ago, Winco said:

The Sun saying it’s going to be Danny Rohl apparently.

and is 1/4 on skybet.

 

I’d be very happy with his appointment. 
 

No, he doesn’t have championship experience, nor any experience as a head coach but he’s very highly regarded. He’s worked at a very good level previously so I think most people would be happy with him as manager and give him some time to settle in, if he comes across well in setting out his vision. As others have said seeing a strategy for the future is key to getting fans to buy into it and to quieting the noise about DC.  

[HoylandOwl]

2 minutes ago, Supercockle said:

I’d be very happy with his appointment. 
 

No, he doesn’t have championship experience, nor any experience as a head coach but he’s very highly regarded. He’s worked at a very good level previously so I think most people would be happy with him as manager and give him some time to settle in, if he comes across well in setting out his vision. As others have said seeing a strategy for the future is key to getting fans to buy into it and to quieting the noise about DC.  

McKenna at Man United hadn't had head coach experience either, and he's doing well.... Albeit with bigger spending.

[mkowl]

9 minutes ago, Owling_Wolf said:

As should be the case. I do wonder if all the shit that's gone on from June through now has poisoned the well, though. If all the gobshite revolutionaries with their "Chansiri out!", their "happy clapper" and their "part of the problem" muck spreading will back off enough to allow anything that's tried at the club to prosper. Or anything like Roehl, wanting time and understanding, to have any of either. Especially if we're going down, which seems likely. 

Don't go on Stalk, basically suggesting our fans are spineless because they gave Chansiri an easy time yesterday. Even suggesting it was cowardly bringing his wife and kids to the game as a human shield to deflect criticism. 

I mean WTF 

[Owling_Wolf]

3 minutes ago, mkowl said:

Don't go on Stalk, basically suggesting our fans are spineless because they gave Chansiri an easy time yesterday. Even suggesting it was cowardly bringing his wife and kids to the game as a human shield to deflect criticism. 

I mean WTF 

I don't.

[HoylandOwl]

9 minutes ago, mkowl said:

Don't go on Stalk, basically suggesting our fans are spineless because they gave Chansiri an easy time yesterday. Even suggesting it was cowardly bringing his wife and kids to the game as a human shield to deflect criticism. 

I mean WTF 

There was someone on Radio Sheffield yesterday who suggested that re his kids. 

Could it be he's taking his family to the game because they want to go? And why shouldn't they be able to go?  Some people just grind my gears. There's not ALWAYS an ulterior motive.

One bloke on Radio Sheffield yesterday said he spoke to DC outside the stadium yesterday (don't know if anyone on here heard it), but was going on that he ranted and raved at the bloke and didn't answer his questions. Which we have seen things like that before in press conferences etc. The way he put it made it sound like DC has gone, my way, tough shit. Those weren't his words, but that was seemingly implied by the bloke. 

I don't know either way btw.... 

[Chelters]

11 minutes ago, mkowl said:

Don't go on Stalk, basically suggesting our fans are spineless because they gave Chansiri an easy time yesterday. Even suggesting it was cowardly bringing his wife and kids to the game as a human shield to deflect criticism. 

I mean WTF 

That kind of thinking is bordering on the psychopathic. 
There is an undercurrent here that I think is very prevalent in society these days, and can be seen across football : that if you’re well off you’re fair game for any sort of abuse. 

[Boracic Lint]

30 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said:

I think, if the fans can see some semblance of a plan, a structure, an idea, then by and large people would stick with it, despite disappointment. With Xisco, as has been said on so many occasions, there didn't seem to be a plan, a structure, or a passion or belief in what he was trying to do. 

There was the beginnings of a plan.

 

It involved playing across the back, back to the keeper who chipped it onto the flanks to start, with fullbacks overlapping the header down and the balls played into space behind the fullbacks for runners, with the opposite side runners for the crossfield ball.

Quick, one-two touch ball down the flanks with overloads on the opposites flank.

No long ball up the middle, no playing from the back. The only player playing it long was the fullback, into space for the runner behind their fullback.

Delgado had a good chance in preseason with it when he got clean through.

The main issue was only really Delgado, Pato and Smith got to grips with it, along with the u21 right side players.

We played it in preseason, starting in Spain, then had it working to an extent v Chessy and Luton.

The problem was we couldn't get the left side doing it, which is probably why Delgado went across, then it just seemed to fizzle out once the season started as nobody was doing it and once panic set in, it went back to the old ways.

We were too unfit to press high so had to revert to the zonal banks.

It just ended up as too big a job, given the starting line and the amount of issues to sort.

This is why I say, given a full preseason, or his players in and fit by day 1, he could possibly have done it.

It's also why I fear for another manager, such as Rohl, who maybe doesn't have the experience or personality to ignore the criticism and can stamp his authority on the team and get them to do it his way regardless of what they think or want to do.

 

[EBRA]

I heard the human shield comment on the radio and am not shocked it’s been repeated over on stalk 

It’s an incredibly insensitive jibe given occurrences in ME at the moment.

However, it may also of been the Chansiri family wanting to be there for him and show solidarity that they are still in fact supporting the club and not going to let it die!  

It was the most Wednesday thing ever for the chants for him to go were minimal - We are one the most easily satisfied fan bases and thus most loyal in the world of football!

Whilst the other caller wasn’t happy with D.C. responses the fact he was willing to talk to him speaks volumes in my opinion - and whilst the lad who spoke is rightfully so entitled to his opinion am I to think his was the right one!

Anyway Rooney left D.C., Rohl spotted in  London lots going off!!

Best thing I heard yesterday was someone saying .. what’s worse than watching a Darren Moore team.. watching 2 of them lol.

 

 

[Beaconowl]

10 minutes ago, EBRA said:

I heard the human shield comment on the radio and am not shocked it’s been repeated over on stalk 

It’s an incredibly insensitive jibe given occurrences in ME at the moment.

However, it may also of been the Chansiri family wanting to be there for him and show solidarity that they are still in fact supporting the club and not going to let it die!  

It was the most Wednesday thing ever for the chants for him to go were minimal - We are one the most easily satisfied fan bases and thus most loyal in the world of football!

Whilst the other caller wasn’t happy with D.C. responses the fact he was willing to talk to him speaks volumes in my opinion - and whilst the lad who spoke is rightfully so entitled to his opinion am I to think his was the right one!

Anyway Rooney left D.C., Rohl spotted in  London lots going off!!

Best thing I heard yesterday was someone saying .. what’s worse than watching a Darren Moore team.. watching 2 of them lol.

 

 

That last paragraph 🤣

[Tylluan]

Bournemouth might be trying to hijack Danny Rohl at the last minute. 

Mate connected with a coach/manager analytical company says they've made contact 

[HoylandOwl]

Media outlets are reporting that Michael Beale wants the job.

[Otto_Man]

5 hours ago, Boracic Lint said:

There was the beginnings of a plan.

 

It involved playing across the back, back to the keeper who chipped it onto the flanks to start, with fullbacks overlapping the header down and the balls played into space behind the fullbacks for runners, with the opposite side runners for the crossfield ball.

Quick, one-two touch ball down the flanks with overloads on the opposites flank.

No long ball up the middle, no playing from the back. The only player playing it long was the fullback, into space for the runner behind their fullback.

Delgado had a good chance in preseason with it when he got clean through.

The main issue was only really Delgado, Pato and Smith got to grips with it, along with the u21 right side players.

We played it in preseason, starting in Spain, then had it working to an extent v Chessy and Luton.

The problem was we couldn't get the left side doing it, which is probably why Delgado went across, then it just seemed to fizzle out once the season started as nobody was doing it and once panic set in, it went back to the old ways.

We were too unfit to press high so had to revert to the zonal banks.

It just ended up as too big a job, given the starting line and the amount of issues to sort.

This is why I say, given a full preseason, or his players in and fit by day 1, he could possibly have done it.

It's also why I fear for another manager, such as Rohl, who maybe doesn't have the experience or personality to ignore the criticism and can stamp his authority on the team and get them to do it his way regardless of what they think or want to do.

 

You've got to play the hand you're dealt though. Previous managers have come in and wanted to change the formation/style then had to revert to a system that suits the players they have. A competent manager can do that, Xisco couldn't. Instead we have different formations with different players every week. Zonal marking none of them know how to execute and a ridiculous over coaching of getting back into shape. Lost count of the number of time I watched a player not close the ball down because they were getting back into position only for the opposition to waltz past them with the ball.

[Greno]

47 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said:

Media outlets are reporting that Michael Beale wants the job.

I'd prefer Ian Beale...

 

...get outta my pub 

[TheExile]

26 minutes ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

Who’s that? I can’t tell 😅

[Tank_Owl2,0]

Looks like Beale. Having his interview by the looks of it. Maybe.

Edited October 8, 2023 by Tank_Owl2,0

[Tank_Owl2,0]

Article in The S** saying we are about to appoint Rohl. Then there a pic of him and the captions says Sheffield U****d to appoint him 🙄

[Bellsview]

Beale has managed just 65 games in total and under his tenure Rangers lost 3 of their first 7 games this season. 

Before Rangers he managed QPR, for 22 games!!!!!

Am I missing something here because I can’t work out why we would want him, unless of course he’s another cheap option and a yes man! 

[TheExile]

Sounds like he’s asked to speak to us rather than the other way around. In many ways hes similar to Rohl but further down the track with experience. Typically a good assistant, tactician and coach but jury out on managerial ability 

[Boracic Lint]

55 minutes ago, Otto_Man said:

You've got to play the hand you're dealt though. Previous managers have come in and wanted to change the formation/style then had to revert to a system that suits the players they have. A competent manager can do that, Xisco couldn't. Instead we have different formations with different players every week. Zonal marking none of them know how to execute and a ridiculous over coaching of getting back into shape. Lost count of the number of time I watched a player not close the ball down because they were getting back into position only for the opposition to waltz past them with the ball.

What if what they're used to won't cut it at a basic level.

He wasn't trying to reinvent the wheel, it was the basics that needed sorting.

At some point you have to draw a line.

As for defence, they were supposed to press but couldn't as they weren't fit enough, so he reverted to the zonal system, which, having new players in every game due to fitness and late signings, may have made it easier.

[TheExile]

Who’s responsible for fitness though? They were meant to be training every day 

[Teddy Nickelarse]

14 minutes ago, TheExile said:

Who’s responsible for fitness though? They were meant to be training every day 

Yes that's crossed my mind. For the first week of the internation break I'd  be putting them through a mini pre-season.