You gotta Röhl with it - Watford match thread.

[NomadOwl]

18 minutes ago, mkowl said:

Lets be honest if Xisco had selected this team we would be tutting loudly. 

The difference will be if there is a coherent plan and tactics on the pitch

But it may be you can't polish a turd 

You’re not wrong. 

I really don’t think Rohl (et al) would be here if he didn’t think he could polish it though. 

17 minutes ago, KrolMong said:

I think it’s a 4-3-3 with Pato up top and Windass and Musaba left and right.

That’d be interesting, have we ever seen Pato up top in the middle before? (Saying that, not sure there’s a position he hasn’t played in for us)

[Teddy Nickelarse]

Scintillate Wednesday; scintillate.

[Andyben]

4-4-2 

[Hirstys 12th Pint]

9 minutes ago, Andyben said:

4-4-2 

4-2-3-1 ?

Certainly a bit more fluid.

Diaby scares me whenever he is near the ball.

[Andyben]

Yeah seemed to start with two up then switched 

[MAL]

Jeez, just head it down FFS

[Winco]

Should be 1 up.

[Andyben]

Decent half. 

[Supercockle]

From what little I saw on my hooky feed, I thought that was an improvement on previous performances. 

[Andyben]

Every layer just that tiny bit more up for it and makes a big difference 

[mkowl]

Few technical gremlins on the water source today but sort of done OK the 20 minutes viewed 

 

[Owling_Wolf]

I've seen better but I've seen far worse this season.  If that was full time I'd say we'd earned our point.  Now comes the hard part: a second half!  

[KrolMong]

Not bad that. The midfield are being far more aggressive with the passing. We’ve switched from a 4-2-3-1 to a 4-3-3 and then to a 4-4-2. Musaba has had a decent half as well playing wide right.. And the midfield three have been busy. We’ve also got midfield runners in the box.

[Andyben]

More shots, more shots on target, more corners, not bad for th away team 

[Winco]

We just look like we’ve been getting coached on system for a week.

everyone seems to know there job a bit more cannyness and we could’ve been 2 up.

A lot better Wednesday.

[owl71]

Decent enough first 45 minutes of the Danny Röhl era.  As solid as we were two weeks ago with a little more creativity.  Goals needed, fuck 1 point.

[Andyben]

Windass neshed it when he saw the defender 

[MAL]

Sir Bobby Charlton Has sadly passed away.

[Andyben]

Oof

[Andyben]

 

 

Cheats 

Edited October 21, 2023 by Andyben

[Owling_Wolf]

Another one of those game changing moments.

[MAL]

Not a penalty, but...

There is no way that he could see a deflection on the ball from the side, that the ref couldn't see looking straight at it.

[Andyben]

Eh?

Had Xisco prebooked these subs?

[owl71]

Refs changing their decisions…they never seem to do it in our favour. 🙄. Watford‘s subs have livened them up.

[owl71]

The season that keeps on giving…giving kicks in the balls. 😡

[Hirstys 12th Pint]

What a poor goal to concede.  

[owl4ever1867]

All that hard work & we're hit on the counter attack, switched off on the left hand side, they've gone up a gear since the penalty decision overturned.

[HarrySpeakup]

Wish we had a sub we could bring on that could change a game instead of someone like Wilks who’s only interesting in getting involved in petty squabbles 

[owl71]

This

[KrolMong]

Combination of the subs making us weaker and one or two players legs going around the 65th minute. We started the second half really well, but they just look younger and fresher and the Watford subs have had a positive impact. Fitness looks an issue with quite a few of ours.

We’ve looked better, but, lack of quality and lack of fitness has done us again.

Wasnt a pen either, not in any league in the world. 

[mkowl]

The absolute issue we have is the technical and physical limitations of the players 

Rohl is working with a very very average group of players. And when the basics of passing and tackling defeat so many of our players, and then the more technically capable are blowing out their arse after an hour.

It is better but I think our good enough is not frankly good enough 

[Laceups]

Signs there to be enthusiastic. But Wilks and Famewo are League 1 at a push.

[mkowl]

Just now, Neville Facking Bartos said:

Seen enough there to be enthused about the coming weeks 

We ain't going to score goals - aside from Windass there isn't a Championship standard striker in the squad.

At the same time we are always likely to concede at least one.

Our piss poor recruitment in League 1 to move forward into this league and the even piss poorer summer recruitment that could have addressed it have totally left a new manager with no where to go

It's not being defeatist just realistic 

 

[HarrySpeakup]

He needs to stop Musaba trying to shoot with a defender a yard in front of him and then 2 minutes later trying a cross with a defender a yard in front of him - just stupid decisions and at the very best we might win a throw or corner 

[mkowl]

2 minutes ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

That’s where the abilities of our new coaching come in to play 

He is a football coach not some miracle worker.

I think he will have grasped today the huge task he has taken on. 

 

 

[TheExile]

Best we have played and I’m aggrieved that pen wasn’t given as there have been one or two worse given against us with no reprieve. Who says luck evens itself as we are getting nothing.

Nonetheless our continued missed chances and the likes of Valentin kicking the ball too far ahead of himself is getting a bit much. Given this coaching team a bit much to do really with minimal attacking threat 

[HappyOwl]

3 hours ago, Tylluan said:

Think in one of DR's interviews he said Johnson was back training with the squad and being assessed fitness wise. 

But he also said something about players aptitude on field and off field. Don't know whether that was sort of aimed at Johnson or not.

I’d heard a what I hope is a ridiculous rumour about why he was ostracised in the first place by xisco but that always happens when things aren’t great 

Thought we were better today can’t wait for Wednesday now 🙌🙌🙌

[Owling_Wolf]

56 minutes ago, KrolMong said:

Combination of the subs making us weaker and one or two players legs going around the 65th minute. We started the second half really well, but they just look younger and fresher and the Watford subs have had a positive impact. Fitness looks an issue with quite a few of ours.

We’ve looked better, but, lack of quality and lack of fitness has done us again.

Wasnt a pen either, not in any league in the world. 

I didn't say it was a pen. If the lino knows it was out then he's got to say so. However, it's us again and another of those moments that floors a team: we'd have been better off if he'd not awarded it in the first place.  

We ran out of steam latish on and their fresh subs added to that as they found more and more space and pushed us deeper and deeper.

A tactical query: for their goal  was it really necessary for us to have every outfield player in their half for our free kick, relatively late on and still 0-0? I'm all for positivity but not for inviting teams to counter attack when all our players are out of position.

An observation: Famewo is a good centre back but not a good, proper full back. If we're going to play him there, I'm saying we can't play Buckley in front of him to support him when he's strugging or out of position. He's too lightweight and, although it was mainly him being fouled in the first half, in the second half he spent a lot of time on the deck. I wasn't surprised he was subbed. He looked weak today.  

Edited October 21, 2023 by Owling_Wolf

[Owling_Wolf]

I'll tell you something else that reversed decision did today: it flattened our crowd. It was right in front of us. The loudest noise we made all day. One minute you're right up there, the next you're flat as a flitter.  

[HoylandOwl]

 

[HoylandOwl]

I thought there was a lot to be pleased with today, we defended well as a team and I was impressed with Diaby and Iorfa at the back. Buckley is lightweight, there's no doubt but he always looks to go forward with the ball which I liked. Musaba was very quiet but then, once he got going he would be right in feeling hard done by, when he was withdrawn. Although some are suggesting his removal took the impetus off us, I'd say it was more the penalty being rescinded. 

It wasn't a foul, so overall you have to say it was the right decision in that respect that the assistant made the right call, it just has to be us that has that and not some shite decision like Oxford's pen last season for instance which was never a pen but nothing from the assistant that day. 

As others have mentioned, we look leggy towards the end of the game, and the aging strikers don't help us press high and win it high up the pitch late in games, while I understand they didn't come on till 2 mins from the end, I suppose I'm saying they don't strike fear with the ball at their feet outside the area like their lad did who scored. Someone like Gassama possibly could have made more sense if we're looking to use pace. BUT, of course I know he wasn't on the bench. 

It'll be interesting to see Byers in the Hendrick role in this new style of play I think. We may get that on Wednesday night. That's not to kick Hendrick either, I thought he had his best game for us, although the bar wasn't set that high before kick off in that respect. 

[Skamp]

6 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said:

I thought there was a lot to be pleased with today, we defended well as a team and I was impressed with Diaby and Iorfa at the back. Buckley is lightweight, there's no doubt but he always looks to go forward with the ball which I liked. Musaba was very quiet but then, once he got going he would be right in feeling hard done by, when he was withdrawn. Although some are suggesting his removal took the impetus off us, I'd say it was more the penalty being rescinded. 

It wasn't a foul, so overall you have to say it was the right decision in that respect that the assistant made the right call, it just has to be us that has that and not some shite decision like Oxford's pen last season for instance which was never a pen but nothing from the assistant that day. 

As others have mentioned, we look leggy towards the end of the game, and the aging strikers don't help us press high and win it high up the pitch late in games, while I understand they didn't come on till 2 mins from the end, I suppose I'm saying they don't strike fear with the ball at their feet outside the area like their lad did who scored. Someone like Gassama possibly could have made more sense if we're looking to use pace. BUT, of course I know he wasn't on the bench. 

It'll be interesting to see Byers in the Hendrick role in this new style of play I think. We may get that on Wednesday night. That's not to kick Hendrick either, I thought he had his best game for us, although the bar wasn't set that high before kick off in that respect. 

I know what you're saying but I'm fed up of clutching at straws. Hopefully the management can get something out of the players fairly sharpish before we start to really worry.

[mkowl]

1 hour ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

So am I but I guarantee he’d do a better job than me, yet I’d do better than Xisco.

The point I’m making is this is the start of the journey, it will get better but we’ll still need additions in January 

My point is the calibre of players currently at his disposal is very limited. My own view is that even if he can get then playing at 100% of their capability individually and collectively this squad is an 18th to 20th place level side at best. 

There is a limit to what he can realistically achieve and I am placing no false hope on him.

I mean Alan Sugar could coach me, but I ain't ever going to be an FD of a FTSE 100 company on the back of it.

[Andyben]

The difference between L1 and championship players is training and attitude.

[mkowl]

4 minutes ago, Andyben said:

The difference between L1 and championship players is training and attitude.

And basic abilities like passing a ball. 

There was a moment today when Patterson collected the ball, under no pressure and there was a simple pass out to Wilks that went 30 years ahead of him and out for a throw. 

 

 

[mkowl]

32 minutes ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

I don’t know why everyone always has to pigeon hole, we’re this at best. Such and such is L1 level

What we need to do is get behind him and the team and trust that as a coach he can improve players sufficiently to keep us up, based on what I’ve seen today from 7 days work I think we’ve a fair chance and that’s before we see how active we are in January

A simple question where are the goals coming from. 

Aside from Windass, not one of the other strikers is good enough. 

 

[Teddy Nickelarse]

45 minutes ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

I don’t know why everyone always has to pigeon hole, we’re this at best. Such and such is L1 level

What we need to do is get behind him and the team and trust that as a coach he can improve players sufficiently to keep us up, based on what I’ve seen today from 7 days work I think we’ve a fair chance and that’s before we see how active we are in January

Well said.

[owl71]

Goals is the problem.  We need to find a few from somewhere or we’ll be dead and buried by the time the January transfer window opens.  

[Teddy Nickelarse]

11 minutes ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

This is where the coaching comes in, not to create a goal out of nothing as they’ll be few and far between irrespective of quality of player.

Where the goals will come from will be high press and forcing mistakes which can be capitalised on, we’ve also seen us commit more number in the box today, we’ll increase our goal tally just by doing that.

Scoring goals isn’t all about quality, granted it helps, but it’s about playing football in the right areas of the pitch, and more frequently. It’s about having that desire to get in to the right areas to pick things up and all of that can be done through coaching and man management.

 

Agreed. I don't  think our biggest problem this season has been the strikers. We've  not been creating enough and this is where we need to improve most. Very beginning of the new era and I expect to see the impact of the new coaches in due course.

[mkowl]

3 minutes ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

This is where the coaching comes in, not to create a goal out of nothing as they’ll be few and far between irrespective of quality of player.

Where the goals will come from will be high press and forcing mistakes which can be capitalised on, we’ve also seen us commit more number in the box today, we’ll increase our goal tally just by doing that.

Scoring goals isn’t all about quality, granted it helps, but it’s about playing football in the right areas of the pitch, and more frequently. It’s about having that desire to get in to the right areas to pick things up and all of that can be done through coaching and man management.

 

The high press stutters to a halt because the midfielders and forwards are fit enough to last 60 minutes 

I just think people are building false hope when the reality is the base level is so poor