2023/24 Wednesday transfer thread...

[Andyben]

That's Smith scoring 30 goals next season then 

[Neville Facking Bartos]

They can have him for me, 500k - £1m is good business 

He’s honest but I expected a bit more if I’m being honest 

[HoylandOwl]

1 hour ago, Tylluan said:

He's pacey and come on leaps and bounds this season but he's still raw. 

 

But if we're pursuing then it fits in with being told that Warne wants Smith at Derby next season if he's allowed to spend and they're still in League 1. They're looking for a replacement for McGoldrick and are willing to match his current wages. 

But if we were to go up by whatever means…. Would he want to go?

[Andyben]

Can't see us selling Smith if we're in same league, especially as there'll be a new Manager who may utilise him better 

[Otto_Man]

47 minutes ago, Andyben said:

Can't see us selling Smith if we're in same league, especially as there'll be a new Manager who may utilise him better 

Will that stop him missing absolute sitters?

[Owling_Wolf]

Just now, Otto_Man said:

Will that stop him missing absolute sitters?

Actually being match fit might do.

[Otto_Man]

I waint hold me breath, I'm with Nev...expected more

[mkowlthesexynewversion]

The Smith signing I could sort of understand but its my old bug bear of us throwing resources at an ageing player, rather than a younger one that could be developed or fit our system

Although it could be argued what is our system anyhow

I don't think we have played to his strengths in the slightest 

[Andyben]

Because we're so good at developing young players...

[mkowlthesexynewversion]

34 minutes ago, Andyben said:

Because we're so good at developing young players...

That is my longer term bug bear. We are fucking useless at it

Equally Moore has been awful at integrating attack minded younger loan players into our squad. That is why this belief many hold that January signings would have been some magic bullet solution are to Mr misplaced.

Until Wednesday switch approach to focus on in house development aligned with astute acquisitions along the way and decent loan players on occasion we are not going to progress 

 

[Bellsview]

1 hour ago, mkowlthesexynewversion said:

That is my longer term bug bear. We are fucking useless at it

Equally Moore has been awful at integrating attack minded younger loan players into our squad. That is why this belief many hold that January signings would have been some magic bullet solution are to Mr misplaced.

Until Wednesday switch approach to focus on in house development aligned with astute acquisitions along the way and decent loan players on occasion we are not going to progress 

 

I don’t think it was misplaced to point back to a lack of signings in January. I was concerned at the time and still think we could have done more. If we’d have been able to tempt a player like Luongo to return on loan, rather than Ipswich, imagine the difference he could have made? If we could have found the money to sign McGuinness, again, things might have been so much different. We thought we had enough in depth, and some have argued better players weren’t out there (yet Plymouth and Ipswich found them, admittedly some commanded fees we couldn’t match), but I bet a pound to a penny, with hindsight, we would have done things different in January knowing what we know now! 

But I 100% agree with you and andyben about players coming through. Both Barnsley and the pigs, clubs located either side of us, have unearthed quality young players who have made it to the first team and looked comfortable there - and both clubs, in unearthing players like John Stone, Kyle Walker and Harry Maguire (all who have gone on to play for England) have reaped massive financial rewards which will have more than funded and shown the value/importance of their youth setups.

Then you look at us. How are we getting it so wrong? 

[Andyben]

I agree about not playing to his strengths, as when we have in patches and he's been for he banged them in. 

Neymarv's early crosses and him getting on th end so easily bodes well for next season under a different Manager 

[Otto_Man]

People whinge about the FGR result, but Smith scores that 1 on 1 to make it 3-0 and we beat Ipsnitch. Who knows how that would have mentally affected oth our players and theirs. Far more pivotal in our season IMO 

[Bellsview]

35 minutes ago, Otto_Man said:

People whinge about the FGR result, but Smith scores that 1 on 1 to make it 3-0 and we beat Ipsnitch. Who knows how that would have mentally affected oth our players and theirs. Far more pivotal in our season IMO 

I still think back to that penalty not given at Barnsley for handball from our corner as well. If that had been given and we’d scored, we might well have won that game and preserved our unbeaten run. We played relatively well in that game but things have collapsed for us since that defeat.

[HoylandOwl]

3 hours ago, Bellsview said:

I don’t think it was misplaced to point back to a lack of signings in January. I was concerned at the time and still think we could have done more. If we’d have been able to tempt a player like Luongo to return on loan, rather than Ipswich, imagine the difference he could have made? If we could have found the money to sign McGuinness, again, things might have been so much different. We thought we had enough in depth, and some have argued better players weren’t out there (yet Plymouth and Ipswich found them, admittedly some commanded fees we couldn’t match), but I bet a pound to a penny, with hindsight, we would have done things different in January knowing what we know now! 

But I 100% agree with you and andyben about players coming through. Both Barnsley and the pigs, clubs located either side of us, have unearthed quality young players who have made it to the first team and looked comfortable there - and both clubs, in unearthing players like John Stone, Kyle Walker and Harry Maguire (all who have gone on to play for England) have reaped massive financial rewards which will have more than funded and shown the value/importance of their youth setups.

Then you look at us. How are we getting it so wrong? 

The other thing is we might have gems right underneath our noses. But we don’t see them….for more than a few minutes at a time at a push. 

[EastCraigsOwl]

I've just been reading an article online from the Edinburgh Evening News. The reporter is suggesting 9 out of contract in the summer central midfielders who Hearts could sign. Not sure why he couldn't find a 10th candidate but not to worry.

Anyway, number 1 on the list is...

Dennis Adeniran 😮

[JBO]

Number 1 is Roland Nilsson 

[Tylluan]

In January we seemed to be constantly linked with young players we never had a chance of getting. If they truly were Moore's shopping list then somebody severely fucked up on the scouting side. Just on that, we were offered Mighten because he didn't want to go all the way to Hearts. We didn't scout him. 

Players were out there. Mark Helm, the lad at Burton who scored twice against us, cost £175k and his u21 stats were through the roof as an attacking central midfielder. Burton took an educated gamble and it's paying off. Burton fans really rate him.

Our u21s needs disbanding and we need to go to a B team set up after the 18s. Leeds, Forest, Derby, Leicester are Cat 1. Us, United and Barnsley all have Cat 2 status. Donny will have Cat 2 by the end of next season. Only Rotherham can't go past Cat 3 at the moment. 

We're in a catchment area with Cat 1s within the permitted traveling distance and competing with Cat 2 academies that do so much more than us. Both United and Barnsley have extremely active scouting and recruitment sections. Iliman Ndiaye was at Boreham Wood u19s when they found him. At the same time we gave Charles Hagan a trial after he'd been binned from Chelsea. Sam Reed, the lad from Brighouse, was also offered to us. We didn't actively scout him but we have someone watching him now he's gone back.

And that's what we seem to do. We appear to wait for the Cat 1s to release players and their agents to ask for trials. If we went to a B team then we could be picking up 23, 24, 25 year olds and above and take a no risk look at them without having to envelope them into a first team squad scenario or trial them for 2 games and have to make a decision. A B team set up would also allow non playing first teamers to get a game. The likes of Shipston, Durrant, Charles, and Cadamarteri could be playing in a B team with older players and first teamers not picked for match days in competitive football against adults and not kids their own age. 

Huddersfield de-categorised their academy to a Cat 4 so they could set up a B team although they call it the Elite Development Squad (it's all about the marketing). It's allowed them to take a chance on slightly older players like Kyle Hudlin that wouldn't qualify for their 21s, as was. 

We're currently tracking Millenic Alli, at Chorley. But so are Huddersfield, who can offer him B team football and a possible route to first team, and Barnsley, where there's a visible route to first team. Then you look at us and where is our path? The lad is a prospect but we're third in this race

[Mark]

2 minutes ago, Tylluan said:

In January we seemed to be constantly linked with young players we never had a chance of getting. If they truly were Moore's shopping list then somebody severely fucked up on the scouting side. Just on that, we were offered Mighten because he didn't want to go all the way to Hearts. We didn't scout him. 

Players were out there. Mark Helm, the lad at Burton who scored twice against us, cost £175k and his u21 stats were through the roof as an attacking central midfielder. Burton took an educated gamble and it's paying off. Burton fans really rate him.

Our u21s needs disbanding and we need to go to a B team set up after the 18s. Leeds, Forest, Derby, Leicester are Cat 1. Us, United and Barnsley all have Cat 2 status. Donny will have Cat 2 by the end of next season. Only Rotherham can't go past Cat 3 at the moment. 

We're in a catchment area with Cat 1s within the permitted traveling distance and competing with Cat 2 academies that do so much more than us. Both United and Barnsley have extremely active scouting and recruitment sections. Iliman Ndiaye was at Boreham Wood u19s when they found him. At the same time we gave Charles Hagan a trial after he'd been binned from Chelsea. Sam Reed, the lad from Brighouse, was also offered to us. We didn't actively scout him but we have someone watching him now he's gone back.

And that's what we seem to do. We appear to wait for the Cat 1s to release players and their agents to ask for trials. If we went to a B team then we could be picking up 23, 24, 25 year olds and above and take a no risk look at them without having to envelope them into a first team squad scenario or trial them for 2 games and have to make a decision. A B team set up would also allow non playing first teamers to get a game. The likes of Shipston, Durrant, Charles, and Cadamarteri could be playing in a B team with older players and first teamers not picked for match days in competitive football against adults and not kids their own age. 

Huddersfield de-categorised their academy to a Cat 4 so they could set up a B team although they call it the Elite Development Squad (it's all about the marketing). It's allowed them to take a chance on slightly older players like Kyle Hudlin that wouldn't qualify for their 21s, as was. 

We're currently tracking Millenic Alli, at Chorley. But so are Huddersfield, who can offer him B team football and a possible route to first team, and Barnsley, where there's a visible route to first team. Then you look at us and where is our path? The lad is a prospect but we're third in this race

Good post.

Yes I liked the look of Helm, never mind his goals, and the number 5 for Exeter who played left side of defence,forget him name, both looked useful but some of our fan base would turn nose up at signings from those clubs.

Is it Burns at Ipswich ? He might be available if (😔) they go up. Bit more experience but got pace we need and wouldn't imagine he'd be that expensive 

[Owling_Wolf]

31 minutes ago, Mark said:

Good post.

Yes I liked the look of Helm, never mind his goals, and the number 5 for Exeter who played left side of defence,forget him name, both looked useful but some of our fan base would turn nose up at signings from those clubs.

Is it Burns at Ipswich ? He might be available if (😔) they go up. Bit more experience but got pace we need and wouldn't imagine he'd be that expensive 

He might have burned his bridges with our fans, that lad!

[Hirstys 12th Pint]

1 hour ago, Tylluan said:

In January we seemed to be constantly linked with young players we never had a chance of getting. If they truly were Moore's shopping list then somebody severely fucked up on the scouting side. Just on that, we were offered Mighten because he didn't want to go all the way to Hearts. We didn't scout him. 

Players were out there. Mark Helm, the lad at Burton who scored twice against us, cost £175k and his u21 stats were through the roof as an attacking central midfielder. Burton took an educated gamble and it's paying off. Burton fans really rate him.

Our u21s needs disbanding and we need to go to a B team set up after the 18s. Leeds, Forest, Derby, Leicester are Cat 1. Us, United and Barnsley all have Cat 2 status. Donny will have Cat 2 by the end of next season. Only Rotherham can't go past Cat 3 at the moment. 

We're in a catchment area with Cat 1s within the permitted traveling distance and competing with Cat 2 academies that do so much more than us. Both United and Barnsley have extremely active scouting and recruitment sections. Iliman Ndiaye was at Boreham Wood u19s when they found him. At the same time we gave Charles Hagan a trial after he'd been binned from Chelsea. Sam Reed, the lad from Brighouse, was also offered to us. We didn't actively scout him but we have someone watching him now he's gone back.

And that's what we seem to do. We appear to wait for the Cat 1s to release players and their agents to ask for trials. If we went to a B team then we could be picking up 23, 24, 25 year olds and above and take a no risk look at them without having to envelope them into a first team squad scenario or trial them for 2 games and have to make a decision. A B team set up would also allow non playing first teamers to get a game. The likes of Shipston, Durrant, Charles, and Cadamarteri could be playing in a B team with older players and first teamers not picked for match days in competitive football against adults and not kids their own age. 

Huddersfield de-categorised their academy to a Cat 4 so they could set up a B team although they call it the Elite Development Squad (it's all about the marketing). It's allowed them to take a chance on slightly older players like Kyle Hudlin that wouldn't qualify for their 21s, as was. 

We're currently tracking Millenic Alli, at Chorley. But so are Huddersfield, who can offer him B team football and a possible route to first team, and Barnsley, where there's a visible route to first team. Then you look at us and where is our path? The lad is a prospect but we're third in this race

You are wasted here Ty.

Seems to make perfect sense as the U23s are a total white elephant.  Who would make that sort of decision in our current set up, or at least put it to Chansiri ?  Steve Haslam ?

[Reesh]

Steven fucking Haslam....says it all

 

[Tylluan]

2 hours ago, Hirstys 12th Pint said:

Seems to make perfect sense as the U23s are a total white elephant.  Who would make that sort of decision in our current set up, or at least put it to Chansiri ?  Steve Haslam ?

This is where a DoF would be invaluable. At the moment we have almost two separate football entities within the club. A first team set up where no manager over the last ten years (at least) has bothered giving serious game time to academy players and an academy that's not creating a conveyor belt or making money.  Haslam won't sound out an idea that might diminish his role or cost him his job. 

It's been considered that due to the demanding criteria to achieve Cat 1 status that more clubs will head down the B team route and that a viable old combination league style competition will be in place inside 3 seasons. We move now and we're ahead of the game. At the moment we're behind Wycombe, who set one up at the start of this season. 

[Ozzie]

On 26/04/2023 at 21:57, Otto_Man said:

I waint hold me breath, I'm with Nev...expected more

True but we don't put enough crosses in. Spend too long passing it between the keeper and defence and back again 4 times and then again back to keeper

Edited April 28 by Ozzie

[Otto_Man]

We put 2 crosses in Saturday and he wasn't even in the box

[Andyben]

..half the time that's because he's having to go wide or drop short to get a sniff

[Otto_Man]

Which is why all that about playing to his strengths is guff. Decent strikers of his ilk do fuck all for 89 mins then score 2.

[Tylluan]

21 minutes ago, Andyben said:

..half the time that's because he's having to go wide or drop short to get a sniff

 

3 minutes ago, Otto_Man said:

Which is why all that about playing to his strengths is guff. Decent strikers of his ilk do fuck all for 89 mins then score 2.

Warne never asked Smith to do anything other than sit on the shoulder of the last man and then beat him to a cross. Those crosses might not come for 88 mins but Smith was never asked to do owt else.

Moore has him running round to create chances rather than be on the end of one. Johnson flings a cross in and Smith is still recovering from dropping deep to start the move then going wide to drag the centre half away. The cross is meant for the onrushing midfielder (whatever happened to them)

In trying to make Smith a better team contributor he's taken 7-10 goals out of him. As a striker that's supposed to be his main contribution 

[Skamp]

We should have had pace down both flanks pinging balls into Smith and Gregory to receive whilst facing goal.

They should not be expected to receive the ball with their back to goal.

4 4 2 or 3 5 2 but not 4 5 1 

It's basic stuff, no need for fancy qualifications. 

 

 

[Bellsview]

I’d love to see the stats on how much distance Smith has run in games this season compared with his time at Rotherham. Might reveal why he now looks knackered late on in games.

[KrolMong]

A part of me feels sorry for Smith given the work he’s expected to do.

But then another part of me looks at him and thinks that he’s one of the worst players I have seen with his back to goal, regardless whether it is rolled into his feet, his chest etc. His inability to get it down, out of his feet, and pop it off is awful.

I agree that we don’t want him chasing teams, but, we do need it stick when he does get it, and it just doesn’t.

I want to feel that my centre forward is giving me an option if I am in trouble, and he seems incapable.

[HoylandOwl]

Rumours from journos already that Aden Flint is being let go from Stoke and will be on a free.

Would you?

[Neville Facking Bartos]

Would I fuck 

Need to get away from aging crocks 

[HoylandOwl]

8 minutes ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

Would I fuck 

Need to get away from aging crocks 

Me neither tbh. He’s been ok. But we need to move forward, by looking backward and signing McGuinness. 

[mkowlthesexynewversion]

51 minutes ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

Would I fuck 

Need to get away from aging crocks 

It is interesting that he was hooked in a couple of games recently. Not sure a contract offer is forthcoming

 

 

 

So that's him signed on 20k a week for 3 years, injury arising Sept 23 until June 25

[Reesh]

2 hours ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

Would I fuck 

Need to get away from aging crocks 

Crock?

[Tylluan]

5 hours ago, KrolMong said:

A part of me feels sorry for Smith given the work he’s expected to do.

But then another part of me looks at him and thinks that he’s one of the worst players I have seen with his back to goal, regardless whether it is rolled into his feet, his chest etc. His inability to get it down, out of his feet, and pop it off is awful.

I agree that we don’t want him chasing teams, but, we do need it stick when he does get it, and it just doesn’t.

I want to feel that my centre forward is giving me an option if I am in trouble, and he seems incapable.

But he's not that player and never has been. His retention stats at Rotherham, Bury, Portsmouth, Swindon et al are shit. 

And if we got him in to do that then we got in the wrong player. But because he's 6' 3" people think it's a given that he should be able to. He's a donkey who can get on the end of crosses and through balls make a living out of it. 

Anybody wants an over 30 who would probably have scored just as many this season but would have been an outlet then we should have brought back Nuhiu or McGoldrick 

Edited April 29 by Tylluan

[Neville Facking Bartos]

39 minutes ago, Reesh said:

Crock?

Based on what I’ve seen of him for us, yes.

Missed most games in his first spell and looks like he could go down again at any moment

[Andyben]

55 minutes ago, Tylluan said:

But he's not that player and never has been. His retention stats at Rotherham, Bury, Portsmouth, Swindon et al are shit. 

And if we got him in to do that then we got in the wrong player. But because he's 6' 3" people think it's a given that he should be able to. He's a donkey who can get on the end of crosses and through balls make a living out of it. 

Anybody wants an over 30 who would probably have scored just as many this season but would have been an outlet then we should have brought back Nuhiu or McGoldrick 

I mentioned months ago that last time Smith and Wilks played in L1 they scored 40-45 goals between them

But, we've never been set up the way Rotherham (automatically promoted with Smith) or Hull (automatically promoted with Wilks) were as we've needed to accommodate Bannan.

If we had, then we'd have had Gregory and Windass as alternatives due to fitness and form which aren't a bad bloody option are they.

If we'd have played down the wings with Neymarv on th left and even dare I say it Mighten in the right then who knows what would have happened...

[HoylandOwl]

I've no problem with accommodating Bannan as part of a TEAM, but not him dictating the team.

However. We've not got a midfielder/attacking player that can do what he does as often as he does either...... 

[Southy_SWFC]

36 minutes ago, Andyben said:

I mentioned months ago that last time Smith and Wilks played in L1 they scored 40-45 goals between them

But, we've never been set up the way Rotherham (automatically promoted with Smith) or Hull (automatically promoted with Wilks) were as we've needed to accommodate Bannan.

If we had, then we'd have had Gregory and Windass as alternatives due to fitness and form which aren't a bad bloody option are they.

If we'd have played down the wings with Neymarv on th left and even dare I say it Mighten in the right then who knows what would have happened...

I get that you're just on the wind up, but anyone who thinks Mighten would have been the answer needs their heads checking. 

[Tylluan]

23 minutes ago, Southy_SWFC said:

I get that you're just on the wind up, but anyone who thinks Mighten would have been the answer needs their heads checking. 

Mighten as an out and out winger, which is the position where his stats were through the roof for Forest 21s, might have done some damage at this level. 

Mighten playing for us in a central midfield, centre forward, wing back position was crap. 

Goes back to what I said earlier. We were offered him and took him. We didn't scout him or we'd have seen he didn't fit Moore's system

[KrolMong]

18 minutes ago, Tylluan said:

Mighten as an out and out winger, which is the position where his stats were through the roof for Forest 21s, might have done some damage at this level. 

Mighten playing for us in a central midfield, centre forward, wing back position was crap. 

Goes back to what I said earlier. We were offered him and took him. We didn't scout him or we'd have seen he didn't fit Moore's system

Ty. I enjoy reading your insights.

So, you’ve got a transfer budget of a million in league one next season, you can get rid of anyone and change shape and system, what are you bringing in?

[Andyben]

50 minutes ago, Southy_SWFC said:

I get that you're just on the wind up, but anyone who thinks Mighten would have been the answer needs their heads checking. 

 

21 minutes ago, Tylluan said:

Mighten as an out and out winger, which is the position where his stats were through the roof for Forest 21s, might have done some damage at this level. 

Mighten playing for us in a central midfield, centre forward, wing back position was crap. 

Goes back to what I said earlier. We were offered him and took him. We didn't scout him or we'd have seen he didn't fit Moore's system

Ty knows.

 

[Andyben]

£75ph plus expenses @Tylluan?

[Tylluan]

54 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said:

I've no problem with accommodating Bannan as part of a TEAM, but not him dictating the team.

However. We've not got a midfielder/attacking player that can do what he does as often as he does either...... 

Goes back to the "pass it to Baz" tactics in the last two championship seasons that teams sussed out pretty quickly. A totally different kind of bazball.

There's an argument to say if we'd have sold/let go Bannan on the couple of  occasions we had the chance them we could have been more effective. Maybe not as pretty but more direct and effective.

[Tylluan]

8 minutes ago, KrolMong said:

Ty. I enjoy reading your insights.

So, you’ve got a transfer budget of a million in league one next season, you can get rid of anyone and change shape and system, what are you bringing in?

I'll have a think and get back to you

[Owling_Wolf]

On 28/04/2023 at 20:56, Otto_Man said:

We put 2 crosses in Saturday and he wasn't even in the box

Two of Gregory's welcome goals recently have been put on a plate for him by Smith's perfect crosses.

[TheExile]

On 27/04/2023 at 17:12, Mark said:

Good post.

Yes I liked the look of Helm, never mind his goals, and the number 5 for Exeter who played left side of defence,forget him name, both looked useful but some of our fan base would turn nose up at signings from those clubs.

Is it Burns at Ipswich ? He might be available if (😔) they go up. Bit more experience but got pace we need and wouldn't imagine he'd be that expensive 

Hartridge he was called. Could smell a Sunday dinner on a Tuesday. He did look quite handy though but possible it was more in that deceptive way as he didn’t look a cb but had a good jump on him.

[TheExile]

I’d be surprised if we sold smith this summer as despite the general lack of goals recently (until today!) the team needs him and the work he does as part of the spine of the team. Similarly to Vaulks a lot of unsung work gets done by those two. 19 goals this season in all comps despite all that team work. So if warne is after him he’d have to pay a decent price, or we are desperate for cash all of a sudden. Doesn’t seem chansiris style though. 
 

DM admitted recently we wanted a younger team to build around that spine we have contracted or optioned which sounds good. A lot of the names mentioned seem quite raw or perhaps too young but it would be good to have one eye on the future and a side that can develop in the Championship rather than needing a rebuild when we get there. I think it’s catch22 though as playing for Wednesday looking for auto promotion takes a bit of experience over the course.