Neil Thompsons Barmy Army - Huddersfield match thread

[mkowl]

Be interesting how Moore goes in the next few games between the international breaks. 

I think his inherent limitations will come to be seen in terms of tactics and inability to make in game changes. 

And that will be pretty important with what looked a very average Huddersfield squad. 

[TheExile]

2 hours ago, Boracic Lint said:

It's just my view.

Hence the "I honestly think" in the first sentence if the very paragraph you mention.

May be right, may be wrong, but there's something wrong at this club that goes beyond Chansiri.

If this is about the players then I think the culture, from the outside, seems better than when we had some outspoken characters post 2016. But generally speaking if players don’t feel they can do what is being asked or if you’re Lee Gregory playing inside left or whatever it was, your enthusiasm and respect for what is being instructed will change. A lot of the team looked really down in the dumps on sky v Sunderland and even subs coming on looked beaten. I think today was more of a release from that situation and possibly some tired minds no longer thinking about x y z 

[LiamOwl]

Almost embarrassing for them to come to a side with form like ours and spend the second half time wasting. 
 

Speaking of embarrassing, James really showed how ridiculous Xisco had been in having him nowhere near the side. A really good performance from him, Vaulks and Bernard. Well, “really good” in the context of our season anyway. 
 

A platform to build on, but we were crying out for some pace in to the second half. Thought Wilks might provide it but he was pretty ineffective when he came on. Although he was hard to done to when he had beaten their man down the left but harshly given a foul. 

[EastCraigsOwl]

2 hours ago, Winco said:

according to Vialli smith was fucking abysmal.

I would agree with that. None of the forward players offered anything much at all but Smith particularly annoyed me. Not sure why. Just looks so slow and off it. Gregory not much better.

The game was 0-0 going on 0-0. Really lacking in quality across both sides. 

Yesterday was day 3 of a wee mini break for myself. Thursday at Owlerton (Sheffield won the top flight play off final in the speedway), Friday pottering about in the city centre, Hillsborough for the match and on my way back north this morning. Engineering works between Newcastle and Edinburgh means I'll get shunted home via Carlisle. An extra hour plus, although I'm in first class, so hopefully they'll provide an extra cup of tea!

[Boracic Lint]

10 minutes ago, TheExile said:

If this is about the players then I think the culture, from the outside, seems better than when we had some outspoken characters post 2016. But generally speaking if players don’t feel they can do what is being asked or if you’re Lee Gregory playing inside left or whatever it was, your enthusiasm and respect for what is being instructed will change. A lot of the team looked really down in the dumps on sky v Sunderland and even subs coming on looked beaten. I think today was more of a release from that situation and possibly some tired minds no longer thinking about x y z 

Funny thing is, if DM had played that formation last season, with Smith up front and Gregory and Windass slightly behind in the 3421 we would have walked that league.

It literally was the 'evolution' of tactics that everyone was screaming for but the knives were already out with everyone concentrating more on the defensive 451 aspect than the offensive benefits. Admittedly we spent more time in defence, but hey ho.

It kept Gregory off the front line, where he was getting bullied and slowing play down by dropping back all the time, but allowed him to get into the box on attack and operate in the gap in front of the CBs where he's most effective. It was tailor made for him.

 

I honestly think that Xisco had just let them do what they want by Sunderland, he'd given up, with his last game v WBA playing the players who he actually wanted without the politics of having to accommodate older players and the loans.

[TheExile]

I think Gregory is just generally limited by his age now. If you can get the ball across the box he has that instinct for a goal more than most but being that bit slower comes at 36 wherever he plays. I think that lack of pace and a bit of unpredictability was a constant issue and moreso this season which only Wilks and Musaba seemingly able to help with 

[HoylandOwl]

2 hours ago, LiamOwl said:

Thought Wilks might provide it but he was pretty ineffective when he came on. Although he was hard to done to when he had beaten their man down the left but harshly given a foul. 

That decision was ridiculous. Wilks was just stronger, and their man went down easier than a cheap 'lady of the night'....

[LiamOwl]

32 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said:

That decision was ridiculous. Wilks was just stronger, and their man went down easier than a cheap 'lady of the night'....

I’ll take your word for it 

[TheExile]

3 hours ago, holmesfield_owl said:

He was 35 in August

That makes him quicker obviously 

[Hirstys 12th Pint]

12 hours ago, Gleadless Owl said:

And Moore still couldn't score against us even though he knew the team inside out 

Hudds will be bottom 4, along with us, QPR and Rotherham.  

[Otto_Man]

4 hours ago, LiamOwl said:

Almost embarrassing for them to come to a side with form like ours and spend the second half time wasting. 
 

Speaking of embarrassing, James really showed how ridiculous Xisco had been in having him nowhere near the side. A really good performance from him, Vaulks and Bernard. Well, “really good” in the context of our season anyway. 
 

A platform to build on, but we were crying out for some pace in to the second half. Thought Wilks might provide it but he was pretty ineffective when he came on. Although he was hard to done to when he had beaten their man down the left but harshly given a foul. 

I thought Wilkes made a positive difference when he came on, Thompson just took the wrong forward off, should have been either Smith or Paterson, both of who were woeful 

[TheExile]

3 minutes ago, holmesfield_owl said:

It definitely makes him not 36

It definitely means he shouldn’t be playing every game as he has been. Which was the point. 

[TheExile]

14 minutes ago, holmesfield_owl said:

And my point is that if we had something better available he wouldn't be but needs must currently 

Each to their own I guess but smith looked more likely to score in an ugly direct approach when he wasn’t coaxed out wide to do the running. Both likely to struggle for goals but I’d have smith in case of a pen and his defensive work too. Paired with one of Musaba or Wilks to add a bit of pace. Gregory seems ideal when we have a bit of pressure and can get balls across the box  

[HoylandOwl]

4 hours ago, LiamOwl said:

I’ll take your word for it 

Hmmmm

[Otto_Man]

56 minutes ago, TheExile said:

Each to their own I guess but smith looked more likely to score in an ugly direct approach when he wasn’t coaxed out wide to do the running. Both likely to struggle for goals but I’d have smith in case of a pen and his defensive work too. Paired with one of Musaba or Wilks to add a bit of pace. Gregory seems ideal when we have a bit of pressure and can get balls across the box  

I'd rather have a striker that can score 1 on 1's than have someone on in case we get a penalty.

[Skamp]

Do we believe this?

 

https://m.soundcloud.com/billy244-467412160/ian-the-wednesday-fan-speaks-to-chansiri-before-the-huddersfield-town-game/s-sZ8gRqVOl4D?si=cf64c52c24ac4cfe9eb7f58af4712474&utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing

 

 

 

[TheExile]

25 minutes ago, Otto_Man said:

I'd rather have a striker that can score 1 on 1's than have someone on in case we get a penalty.

Me too, if they could get on the end of the through ball for a 1 v 1 to happen 

[TheExile]

9 minutes ago, Skamp said:

Do we believe this?

 

https://m.soundcloud.com/billy244-467412160/ian-the-wednesday-fan-speaks-to-chansiri-before-the-huddersfield-town-game/s-sZ8gRqVOl4D?si=cf64c52c24ac4cfe9eb7f58af4712474&utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing

 

 

 

Given it matches his statements and other forum responses it wouldn’t surprise me 

[Winco]

What a load of bollox 

[Owling_Wolf]

3 hours ago, Otto_Man said:

I'd rather have a striker that can score 1 on 1's than have someone on in case we get a penalty.

Hull?

[mkowl]

10 hours ago, Owling_Wolf said:

Hull?

That was the type of goal he failed to score at least 6 times in League 1.

That was the type of signing that I hark on about the short termism that afflicts our recruitment. That slot could have been taken by a younger striker with the potential to go further

[Boracic Lint]

11 minutes ago, mkowl said:

That was the type of goal he failed to score at least 6 times in League 1.

That was the type of signing that I hark on about the short termism that afflicts our recruitment. That slot could have been taken by a younger striker with the potential to go further

Who has been scoring one on one's though?

It's wasn't a part of our game in League 1, we don't move the ball forward quickly enough.

[Otto_Man]

29 minutes ago, Boracic Lint said:

Who has been scoring one on one's though?

It's wasn't a part of our game in League 1, we don't move the ball forward quickly enough.

Windass does. 

Irrespective of how quick we move the ball forward, on 3 separate occasions last season I saw Smith go 1 on 1 with an opposition keeper and every time he either missed the target or put it straight at the keeper. 2 were in incredibly important games (Ipsnitch away and 1st po semi). 

 

[Boracic Lint]

10 minutes ago, Otto_Man said:

Windass does. 

Irrespective of how quick we move the ball forward, on 3 separate occasions last season I saw Smith go 1 on 1 with an opposition keeper and every time he either missed the target or put it straight at the keeper. 2 were in incredibly important games (Ipsnitch away and 1st po semi). 

 

At least he actually gets a shot off seeing as he's supposed to be slow.

Gregory's been put through on numerous occasions but somehow never gets a shot off so doesn't get the grief for missing.

Anyway.

How many has Windass actually scored though?

Can't actually remember a proper clean through 1 on 1.

Smith should be paired with Windass as a front two in this side, a lot of Windass' chances were made by Smith last season. They worked well together, honestly don't understand why they haven't been. Smith needs someone with movement to play off him to be at his best. 

We have rarely played to his strengths.

He's also massive on the defensive side with set pieces where we've struggled this season.

If we're going 2 up, they should be the default.

[Winco]

Article in The Sun by Ken Lawrence about us.

pretty damming about DC.

hope he doesn’t read it and stop paying the tea lady.

[Otto_Man]

2 hours ago, Boracic Lint said:

At least he actually gets a shot off seeing as he's supposed to be slow.

Gregory's been put through on numerous occasions but somehow never gets a shot off so doesn't get the grief for missing.

Anyway.

How many has Windass actually scored though?

Can't actually remember a proper clean through 1 on 1.

Smith should be paired with Windass as a front two in this side, a lot of Windass' chances were made by Smith last season. They worked well together, honestly don't understand why they haven't been. Smith needs someone with movement to play off him to be at his best. 

We have rarely played to his strengths.

He's also massive on the defensive side with set pieces where we've struggled this season.

If we're going 2 up, they should be the default.

Second v the barcodes in the FA cup off the top of my head, could argue the first was too, but I won't.

Don't recall Gregory getting put in too often and missing, whereas I don't recall seeing Smith getting one despite numerous chances. Also 21 goals last season suggests we must be playing to at least some of his strengths doesn't it?

[Boracic Lint]

11 minutes ago, Otto_Man said:

Second v the barcodes in the FA cup off the top of my head, could argue the first was too, but I won't.

Don't recall Gregory getting put in too often and missing, whereas I don't recall seeing Smith getting one despite numerous chances. Also 21 goals last season suggests we must be playing to at least some of his strengths doesn't it?

We made very few of that type of chance, as we move the ball forward too slowly so there's usually plenty of time for defences to get set.

V Newcastle we played what we should be playing now, all in, ball forward at every opportunity, no pissing about.

That is where Smith plays best. Did it at Rotherham in a side of worse players than this.

We're not the big boys anymore who can tap it about for 20 minutes waiting for an opening.

Gregory is always an inch off, just misses it. So nobody remembers it as a chance, where Windass or Smith would get to it and be remembered as a miss.

It's a weird thing about our fanbase.

Doing well and getting into good positions is almost punished, rather than applauded.

Smith managed to get himself through, got blamed for not winning the league.

Wing, made a fantastic run in a game he was playing well in, missed, worst player we've ever seen.

Our entire team is judged on what they show in the short highlights, not what they actually do in the game. Pato being a prime example.

 

Anyways, as for Smith. Look at the difference in the performance v West Brom and Huddersfield. 

West Brom he was getting it high up the pitch and getting good layoffs all over, causing some real problems, as well as heading everything that came into our box.

Huddersfield, playing in the slower style, getting caught as the quick passes weren't there and nowhere near as effective. Admittedly the ref screwed him.

He needs to be high up the pitch or have the ball in front of him. He's not Lee Gregory, even though we tried to use him in the same way for much of last season. He's not going to come back into midfield, get the ball to feet, stick his arse out and lay it off. It's not his game.

[Ozzie]

On 08/10/2023 at 09:20, TheExile said:

If this is about the players then I think the culture, from the outside, seems better than when we had some outspoken characters post 2016. But generally speaking if players don’t feel they can do what is being asked or if you’re Lee Gregory playing inside left or whatever it was, your enthusiasm and respect for what is being instructed will change. A lot of the team looked really down in the dumps on sky v Sunderland and even subs coming on looked beaten. I think today was more of a release from that situation and possibly some tired minds no longer thinking about x y z 

Outspoken characters? 

They were playing for Luhukay & Monk. They needed to be outspoken against them 2 planks

[Owling_Wolf]

On 07/10/2023 at 21:44, TheExile said:

Agree on Gregory. Needs to be more of an impact sub as a poacher. Smith with a quicker player beside him might be better

 

On 07/10/2023 at 22:02, Owling_Wolf said:

Windass?  (When fit.)

 

On 07/10/2023 at 22:50, TheExile said:

Yeah either doing what he did v newcastle or just behind the striker if needing to find space. Whatever he needs to not have his back to goal 

Sorted. Just need him fit first.

[Mark]

2 hours ago, Boracic Lint said:

We made very few of that type of chance, as we move the ball forward too slowly so there's usually plenty of time for defences to get set.

V Newcastle we played what we should be playing now, all in, ball forward at every opportunity, no pissing about.

That is where Smith plays best. Did it at Rotherham in a side of worse players than this.

We're not the big boys anymore who can tap it about for 20 minutes waiting for an opening.

Gregory is always an inch off, just misses it. So nobody remembers it as a chance, where Windass or Smith would get to it and be remembered as a miss.

It's a weird thing about our fanbase.

Doing well and getting into good positions is almost punished, rather than applauded.

Smith managed to get himself through, got blamed for not winning the league.

Wing, made a fantastic run in a game he was playing well in, missed, worst player we've ever seen.

Our entire team is judged on what they show in the short highlights, not what they actually do in the game. Pato being a prime example.

 

Anyways, as for Smith. Look at the difference in the performance v West Brom and Huddersfield. 

West Brom he was getting it high up the pitch and getting good layoffs all over, causing some real problems, as well as heading everything that came into our box.

Huddersfield, playing in the slower style, getting caught as the quick passes weren't there and nowhere near as effective. Admittedly the ref screwed him.

He needs to be high up the pitch or have the ball in front of him. He's not Lee Gregory, even though we tried to use him in the same way for much of last season. He's not going to come back into midfield, get the ball to feet, stick his arse out and lay it off. It's not his game.

Smith doesn't want the ball too far in front of him......

For what it's worth I thought (in a dreadful game) his touch and control was pretty good 

[EastCraigsOwl]

18 minutes ago, Mark said:

Smith doesn't want the ball too far in front of him......

For what it's worth I thought (in a dreadful game) his touch and control was pretty good 

Better than Liam Palmer's anyway!

[Boracic Lint]

14 minutes ago, Mark said:

Smith doesn't want the ball too far in front of him......

For what it's worth I thought (in a dreadful game) his touch and control was pretty good 

He needs a ball to attack.

His touch has never been bad, the difference between him and Gregory is that he will always be looking to turn and advance play, whereas Gregory will 9/10 stay facing and move towards our own goal and pass it straight back.

So Smith, when he had runners round him looks great, when everyone is our side of him, he doesn't have the outlet he's looking for so gets caught on the ball more.

For a slow build up on the floor, playing against a team who sits back and lets you play in front, Gregory will get you through.

For what we're facing now, where teams are in our faces and we can't get the space to do that, Smith all the way.

A fit Windass or Wilks could possibly be the right partner for both of them, but they should never play together.

[Mark]

2 hours ago, EastCraigsOwl said:

Better than Liam Palmer's anyway!

Crikey yes. I thought he had a shocker

[Mark]

2 hours ago, Boracic Lint said:

He needs a ball to attack.

His touch has never been bad, the difference between him and Gregory is that he will always be looking to turn and advance play, whereas Gregory will 9/10 stay facing and move towards our own goal and pass it straight back.

So Smith, when he had runners round him looks great, when everyone is our side of him, he doesn't have the outlet he's looking for so gets caught on the ball more.

For a slow build up on the floor, playing against a team who sits back and lets you play in front, Gregory will get you through.

For what we're facing now, where teams are in our faces and we can't get the space to do that, Smith all the way.

A fit Windass or Wilks could possibly be the right partner for both of them, but they should never play together.

True. What I really meant was Smith isn't a "runner" as in ball played ahead of him.

I wouldn't want Wilks in front 2. His asset is coming in off flank onto his left and using thst bit of pace. Don't want him with back 2 goal.

Could work in front 3 with Smith in middle, Windass on other flank. Not sure our midfield could cope with that though!!

 

[Owling_Wolf]

2 minutes ago, Mark said:

True. What I really meant was Smith isn't a "runner" as in ball played ahead of him.

I wouldn't want Wilks in front 2. His asset is coming in off flank onto his left and using thst bit of pace. Don't want him with back 2 goal.

Could work in front 3 with Smith in middle, Windass on other flank. Not sure our midfield could cope with that though!!

 

Ironically, Xisco could have designed Wilks but he's virtually never been fit since we signed him. 

[Boracic Lint]

1 minute ago, Mark said:

True. What I really meant was Smith isn't a "runner" as in ball played ahead of him.

I wouldn't want Wilks in front 2. His asset is coming in off flank onto his left and using thst bit of pace. Don't want him with back 2 goal.

Could work in front 3 with Smith in middle, Windass on other flank. Not sure our midfield could cope with that though!!

 

Better than behind him.

He actually broke the lines a few times last season, couple of good assists from it. He's not going to win medals, but he has enough to get a yard on a CB.

Anything we can do can't hurt the midfield worse than playing Bannan and Windass together in it, so a 433 could work. Seemed to be what Xisco was aiming and recruiting for before he bottled it.

[Mark]

I think we could play s 3 in there when Diaby is fit as I think  he gives us the legs in there we desperately need 

[Supercockle]

27 minutes ago, Mark said:

I think we could play s 3 in there when Diaby is fit as I think  he gives us the legs in there we desperately need 

Not now he only has one he doesn’t. 

[Tylluan]

If you're looking to play 3 up front then you could go 3-4-3 with a box 4 in the middle. 

3 up top would probably suit Gassama and Musaba better as well but we would need legs and shithousery to control the middle. 

[Owling_Wolf]

What's a "box 4", Ty?

[Reesh]

9 hours ago, Owling_Wolf said:

What's a "box 4", Ty?

As it says.

 

You have two players deep on the pivot and two playing up in the 10 position.

 

Footballs evolved since the wing half and inside left days Owling.

Edited October 10, 2023 by Reesh

[Owling_Wolf]

1 minute ago, Reesh said:

As it says.

 

You have two players deep on the pivot and two playing up in the 10 position.

 

Footballs evolved since the wing half and inside left days Owling.

Before my time that, Reesh.  I was a Ramsey 'Wingless Wonders' boy, aged 13 when I started going. 

The biggest changes nowadays are to the endless jargon used, for instance in your explanation above, as well as the original from Ty.  In both cases only the quantities are really obvious.  

[Boracic Lint]

7 minutes ago, Reesh said:

As it says.

 

You have two players deep on the pivot and two playing up in the 10 position.

 

Footballs evolved since the wing half and inside left days Owling.

9 hours ago, Owling_Wolf said:

What's a "box 4", Ty?

Like the 4222 jobby last season

[Andyben]

You sat that @Reeshbut the box 4 could be extremely correlated to the old W / M Formation 

3-2-2-3

Top 2 (usually 8's not 10's) being  old fashioned inside forwards, bottom two would be the  full backs moving inside.

Think Pep at Bayern

Edited October 10, 2023 by Andyben

[Owling_Wolf]

1 minute ago, Boracic Lint said:

Like the 4222 jobby last season

Is that the Rab. C. Nesbit definition of a "jobby"?  

[owl71]

1 hour ago, Andyben said:

You sat that @Reeshbut the box 4 could be extremely correlated to the old W / M Formation 

3-2-2-3

Top 2 (usually 8's not 10's) being  old fashioned inside forwards, bottom two would be the  full backs moving inside.

Think Pep at Bayern

I’m trying to visualise how it would work with Vaulks, Bakinson, Byers and Pato.  Let’s face it, we need a sense of humour this season.

[KrolMong]

We’d have an issue with a box four because either your full backs have to invert to create an extra body (which means they have to be very comfortable in possession). Or, your full backs have to almost play as wingers and the sitting two have to fill the spaces they vacate.

Then, you are very reliant on the likes of Buckley and Windass being the 10’s. And the two at the base of the midfield have got to be very good at keeping possession which means Bannan and A.N Other (perhaps Byers). In a box, it’s not about snapping into tackles, but funnelling teams and reading the game.

[Tylluan]

The box could go two ways. 

The bottom 2 could track the midfield runners and drop in, allowing the left and right centre halves to go wide defensively. The top 2 would have to fill the middle though and the two wide forwards would drop in like wingers. 

The other way would be like @Andyben suggested. To have the bottom two slightly wider, to cover defensively and the top two becoming 8s. This could also allow a centre half to step through when the situation allowed. 

It's really hard to write on here what I'm seeing in my head. 

[Andyben]

It's really hard to write on here what I'm seeing in my head. 

I'm the same when I'm on mumsnet @Tylluan

[Tylluan]

This might help

https://medium.com/@Lxwrites/the-box-midfield-s-6e8f61bb91b5