Neil Thompsons Barmy Army - Huddersfield match thread

[Boracic Lint]

That was in no way an improvement on anything we've seen this season.

Huddersfield were just worse than anything we've played this season so far.

Play like that against any of the teams we've played and it's a straight loss.

Unless we get over it and make the changes needed to the team, there will be 2 DM teams in the relegation places come the end of the season.

[owl4ever1867]

1 hour ago, mkowl said:

It was an arm into his face so it was a foul, but that would have been typical 

At least Dawson goes for crosses not like Vasquez.

Battling performance at least, just a lack of quality in the final 3rd, but looked more solid in the defensive 3rd and more competitive in the midfield 3rd 

So stopped the rot but how we can convert this to scoring goals and winning I think is going to be a tough gig for any new manager 

 

Must've missed that MK.

Been a bit of a shit week, we should be in Tenerife but had to cancel as the Wife took ill in the early hours of Saturday morning, came out of hospital on Thursday, thankfully she is okay now....

On the bright side, we're booked to go next year & added another week.

[HoylandOwl]

Just got back.

Even though we were far from perfect today. Much better from so many angles, which tells you how bad we’ve been.
We battled, weren’t outmuscled, got rid of that stupid zonal marking, didn’t feel like we were an accident waiting to happen.

Ihiekwe at the back made a massive difference IMO. As did James, who was for me probably the pick of the bunch. A nod to Vaulks too, who did what he does better than he has. He was horrible for them, aggressive, and in the game more than their ‘spoiler’ Jonathan Hogg. 
I think the thing that I was most pleased with was, we didn’t fanny about with the ball. We tried to pass when it was on, not risking it, and we hoofed when we had to.

Square pegs in square holes. Makes a huge difference. 

[mkowl]

13 minutes ago, owl4ever1867 said:

Must've missed that MK.

Been a bit of a shit week, we should be in Tenerife but had to cancel as the Wife took ill in the early hours of Saturday morning, came out of hospital on Thursday, thankfully she is okay now....

On the bright side, we're booked to go next year & added another week.

I had the benefit of replays 

Hope your Mrs is better soon 

[Owling_Wolf]

1 hour ago, Winco said:

😎

🏆

[Owling_Wolf]

1 hour ago, Boracic Lint said:

That was in no way an improvement on anything we've seen this season.

Huddersfield were just worse than anything we've played this season so far.

Play like that against any of the teams we've played and it's a straight loss.

Unless we get over it and make the changes needed to the team, there will be 2 DM teams in the relegation places come the end of the season.

Really? Swansea were dreadful!  

[Boracic Lint]

Just now, Owling_Wolf said:

Really? Swansea were dreadful!  

Swansea at least pressed us and countered.

To be fair, had the dodgy pen not been given we should have got something from that.

 

If the teams had switched kits at half time today nobody would have noticed, neither team had any threat whatsoever.

 

Without a change, both teams are going down.

[owl71]

1 hour ago, Boracic Lint said:

That was in no way an improvement on anything we've seen this season.

Huddersfield were just worse than anything we've played this season so far.

Play like that against any of the teams we've played and it's a straight loss.

Unless we get over it and make the changes needed to the team, there will be 2 DM teams in the relegation places come the end of the season.

Yes it was.  The defence was better organised.  Ihekwe was talking to people all game long.  A huge on improvement on Bambo number 5.

That apart yeah fair point.  The side that got promoted last season has a lot of players not really good enough for the Championship.  The fact that we’ve bolloxed up the upgrade doesn’t change that.

[Owling_Wolf]

5 minutes ago, Boracic Lint said:

Swansea at least pressed us and countered.

To be fair, had the dodgy pen not been given we should have got something from that.

 

If the teams had switched kits at half time today nobody would have noticed, neither team had any threat whatsoever.

 

Without a change, both teams are going down.

That pen changed the game after we'd started on top. Their crowd were getting at them. (They'd not won either.)

After we hit the bar in the 2nd half and it bounced down n out, Vasquez went kamikaze on us.  😖

Edited October 7, 2023 by Owling_Wolf

[Tank_Owl2,0]

That’s the first live game I’ve seen since Ipswich.

The quality of both team wasn’t great offensively but I thought we looked more determined and solid at the back, apart from Palmer - he was very poor.

Bernard gets better every time he plays. The Cryuff turn he did was just great to see, youthful confidence.

As others have said we really lacked the quality in the final third, but it was particularly the decision making. I also feel Byers isn’t quite at the races yet. Whilst not doing anything spectacular I think Wilks put a bit of doubt in their defence.

Dawson did ok but I still think Vasquez is the slightly better keeper but I’m happy enough with Dawson if he can build some consistency.

Its something to build on and we have a few games I feel we can do OK in with the right continuity and support from the Head Coach.

Finally, I’ll say it again, there aren’t many teams in this league we should fear but we need to be tighter than a ducks arse in defence, ie if we can’t win - don’t lose.

[Boracic Lint]

1 minute ago, Owling_Wolf said:

That pen changed the game after we'd started on top. After we hit the bar in the 2nd half and it bounced down n out, Vasquez went kamikaze on us.  😖

PGMOL apologised for it, it wasn't a pen.

We had a few like that though.

Gregory v Hull at 1-0.

Pen v Cardiff.

All three less of a pen than Gregory in the playoff final.

Just needed a bit of luck and we'd be OK,but we kept getting suckerpunched and our heads dropped.

The team that played WBA would have won today.

But it's better to be lucky than good and Xisco is the unluckiest manager I've ever seen.

[TheExile]

1 hour ago, Boracic Lint said:

That was in no way an improvement on anything we've seen this season.

Huddersfield were just worse than anything we've played this season so far.

Play like that against any of the teams we've played and it's a straight loss.

Unless we get over it and make the changes needed to the team, there will be 2 DM teams in the relegation places come the end of the season.

Whilst I don’t disagree with your conclusion.  We did do some basics defensively that only a week ago weren’t happening, like just tracking a man and being determined to make the first contact on the ball…rather than wondering on which zone you should be dealing with as your man rushes past you 

[Owling_Wolf]

4 minutes ago, Boracic Lint said:

PGMOL apologised for it, it wasn't a pen.

We had a few like that though.

Gregory v Hull at 1-0.

Pen v Cardiff.

All three less of a pen than Gregory in the playoff final.

Just needed a bit of luck and we'd be OK,but we kept getting suckerpunched and our heads dropped.

The team that played WBA would have won today.

But it's better to be lucky than good and Xisco is the unluckiest manager I've ever seen.

Don't understand your last two comments. 

Why would they have?

Why did we employ him?

[Boracic Lint]

1 minute ago, TheExile said:

Whilst I don’t disagree with your conclusion.  We did do some basics defensively that only a week ago weren’t happening, like just tracking a man and being determined to make the first contact on the ball…rather than wondering on which zone you should be dealing with as your man rushes past you 

Look at how many open play goals we actually conceded though.

2 in 5.5 after the first 2 games, then the collapses v Swansea and Sunderland, even then only 3 of the 6 were in open play.

That's not bad for a team at the bottom.

[HoylandOwl]

 

[Owling_Wolf]

3 minutes ago, Boracic Lint said:

Look at how many open play goals we actually conceded though.

2 in 5.5 after the first 2 games, then the collapses v Swansea and Sunderland, even then only 3 of the 6 were in open play.

That's not bad for a team at the bottom.

But how many of the corners / set plays they scored against us came from what TheExile described above?

[HoylandOwl]

 

[Boracic Lint]

2 minutes ago, Owling_Wolf said:

Don't understand your last two comments. 

Why would they have?

Why did we employ him?

Even with 10 men they showed more attacking intent in the last 20 minutes than today's team did for 90.

 

We employed Xisco to rebuild the side, but he literally had the worst conditions for a start than any manager has for a long time.

Late appointment.

Late signings.

Fallout from Chansiri.

The entire evolution not revolution bollocks from the media, who were on at him from day one.

Fixture list. 8 of top 10, then 2 who weren't are on a 4 game winning streak.

All of the dodgy pens, Famewo getting injured straight after the subs in his last game.

Easiest game of the season the game after his dismissal.

Nothing has gone right for him.

But, as Napoleon said, it's better to have a lucky general thana good one, maybe dismissing him needed to happen.

 

[Boracic Lint]

2 minutes ago, Owling_Wolf said:

But how many of the corners / set plays they scored against us came from what TheExile described above?

Most came from corners, which were defended to give the corners, so can't really argue with those.

A freekick from halfway v Preston.

3 dodgy pens. Bamboo was just stupid.

Set pieces need time to get right defensively, took DM most of a season to get it.

[Owling_Wolf]

8 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said:

 

I've liked him from the start. Stood out amongst the newbies: a proper player. 

[Owling_Wolf]

10 minutes ago, Boracic Lint said:

Even with 10 men they showed more attacking intent in the last 20 minutes than today's team did for 90.

 

We employed Xisco to rebuild the side, but he literally had the worst conditions for a start than any manager has for a long time.

Late appointment.

Late signings.

Fallout from Chansiri.

The entire evolution not revolution bollocks from the media, who were on at him from day one.

Fixture list. 8 of top 10, then 2 who weren't are on a 4 game winning streak.

All of the dodgy pens, Famewo getting injured straight after the subs in his last game.

Easiest game of the season the game after his dismissal.

Nothing has gone right for him.

But, as Napoleon said, it's better to have a lucky general thana good one, maybe dismissing him needed to happen.

 

WBA: It helps when your opponent has basically declared at h.t., as happened 2 or 3 times in recent Xisco matches. 

Xisco:  But why him? His record since Watford is shocking for an appointment at this level!  Then, even if he was tasked with rebuilding the side, surely you'd improve the side by adding youth, pace and extra skill to it, not almost totally disable it by changing the style and way of playing utterly completely in every way. "Throwing the baby out with the bathwater." If he'd come in with the specific intent of crippling this football club on the pitch, he couldn't have gone about it more efficiently. Including destroying all previous team morale in pre-season, even seemingly alienating one or two players. It was terrifying to go to the pre-season friendlies and see us humiliated by teams miles below us and the effect of this on our players.

Yes, we've had zero good fortune this season but it's not Xisco who was unlucky, it's been us the damn fans for having him inflicted upon us!  His apparent plan was absolute madness from day one.

[Boracic Lint]

3 minutes ago, Owling_Wolf said:

WBA: It helps when your opponent has basically declared at h.t., as happened 2 or 3 times in recent Xisco matches. 

Xisco:  But why him? His record since Watford is shocking for an appointment at this level!  Then, even if he was tasked with rebuilding the side, surely you'd improve the side by adding youth, pace and extra skill to it, not almost totally disable it by changing the style and way of playing utterly completely in every way. "Throwing the baby out with the bathwater." If he'd come in with the specific intent of crippling this football club on the pitch, he couldn't have gone about it more efficiently. Including destroying all previous team morale in pre-season, even seemingly alienating one or two players. It was terrifying to go to the pre-season friendlies and see us humiliated by teams miles below us and the effect of this on our players.

Yes, we've had zero good fortune this season but it's not Xisco who was unlucky, it's been us the damn fans for having him inflicted upon us!  His apparent plan was absolute madness from day one.

Oh, you meant why appoint him specifically.

Because you're running out of time and your previous manager is running around telling everyone you can't fund the team and break your promises, so can't get a better, more established manager or one already under contract as anything you promise is under suspicion and makes the job too much of a risk if you have options.

So you take a punt on someone who is available, has a staff and won't cost too much to get rid of after 10 games if it doesn't work out.

Also, not knowing how big a job needs to be done helps.

[TheExile]

43 minutes ago, Boracic Lint said:

Look at how many open play goals we actually conceded though.

2 in 5.5 after the first 2 games, then the collapses v Swansea and Sunderland, even then only 3 of the 6 were in open play.

That's not bad for a team at the bottom.

I’m not surprised as the whole idea was to sit deep and the attack was isolated. We can probably count on one hand the goals scored and the number of genuine chances on the other. 
 

Many goals conceded (Cardiff first goal, Hull second as examples) still had players standing off their man rather than challenging physically as it was zonal. Others a result of passing around the back and either giving ball away or allowing a spell of pressure. As a combination it was woeful and not purely down to bad luck. 

[Owling_Wolf]

1 minute ago, Boracic Lint said:

Oh, you meant why appoint him specifically.

Because you're running out of time and your previous manager is running around telling everyone you can't fund the team and break your promises, so can't get a better, more established manager or one already under contract as anything you promise is under suspicion and makes the job too much of a risk if you have options.

So you take a punt on someone who is available, has a staff and won't cost too much to get rid of after 10 games if it doesn't work out.

Also, not knowing how big a job needs to be done helps.

By which time you're country miles down the relegation road and you've trashed the team, nay squad!

[Boracic Lint]

Just now, TheExile said:

I’m not surprised as the whole idea was to sit deep and the attack was isolated. We can probably count on one hand the goals scored and the number of genuine chances on the other. 
 

Many goals conceded (Cardiff first goal, Hull second as examples) still had players standing off their man rather than challenging physically as it was zonal. Others a result of passing around the back and either giving ball away or allowing a spell of pressure. As a combination it was woeful and not purely down to bad luck. 

Far too many of our goals conceded were down to individual mistakes, switching off and indiscipline, mainly by the 'old guard'.

This has happened throughout DMs tenure.

Remember the defence stood together in the middle while Barnsley ran unopposed down the flanks in the playoffs?

We need root and branch overhaul and it was the quickest way to get some form of discipline in a short time.

As he said, they weren't up to the speed of play and needed everything simplifying as he didn't have the prep time needed before the season started.

It was a stopgap exercise to buy time but didn't work. 

Doing it didn't work, but not doing it would have been worse.

[Boracic Lint]

7 minutes ago, Owling_Wolf said:

By which time you're country miles down the relegation road and you've trashed the team, nay squad!

If we'd have carried on with what we were doing last season we wouldn't be better off.

The players we retained just weren't prepared for the physicality or pace of the game up here, hence the signings being big, fast or both to try and compensate.

[Owling_Wolf]

3 minutes ago, TheExile said:

I’m not surprised as the whole idea was to sit deep and the attack was isolated. We can probably count on one hand the goals scored and the number of genuine chances on the other. 
 

Many goals conceded (Cardiff first goal, Hull second as examples) still had players standing off their man rather than challenging physically as it was zonal. Others a result of passing around the back and either giving ball away or allowing a spell of pressure. As a combination it was woeful and not purely down to bad luck. 

Our kamikaze take on passing (pissing?) it out with Vasquez recently visibly lifts and inspires our opponents, however rubbish they've been up to that point. It absolutely stood out at Swansea, 2nd half. Tosh opponents, no wins, fans on their manager's case, on team's back at times, but when he actually chooses to draw the attacker and sees the rebound rocket into the side netting, suddenly the crowd roars and their players can't wait to close us down. Then costs us a goal through his distribution. He starts the next game though!

[Owling_Wolf]

6 minutes ago, Boracic Lint said:

Far too many of our goals conceded were down to individual mistakes, switching off and indiscipline, mainly by the 'old guard'.

This has happened throughout DMs tenure.

Remember the defence stood together in the middle while Barnsley ran unopposed down the flanks in the playoffs?

We need root and branch overhaul and it was the quickest way to get some form of discipline in a short time.

As he said, they weren't up to the speed of play and needed everything simplifying as he didn't have the prep time needed before the season started.

It was a stopgap exercise to buy time but didn't work. 

Doing it didn't work, but not doing it would have been worse.

1st 2 paras above: I'm not really a DM fan (as manager) but are you referring to the "old guard" of the last 2 seasons, that went 26 games without defeat last season, making regular individual mistakes back then?

Last para: What could possibly be worse than doing and persisting with something that absolutely didn't work?

Some of the stuff you're coming out with tonight: are you Xisco's agent?  If not, you should be!   

[Boracic Lint]

9 minutes ago, Owling_Wolf said:

Our kamikaze take on passing (pissing?) it out with Vasquez recently visibly lifts and inspires our opponents, however rubbish they've been up to that point. It absolutely stood out at Swansea, 2nd half. Tosh opponents, no wins, fans on their manager's case, on team's back at times, but when he actually chooses to draw the attacker and sees the rebound rocket into the side netting, suddenly the crowd roars and their players can't wait to close us down. Then costs us a goal through his distribution. He starts the next game though!

We had Gregory up front for that game and Swansea, so had no outball whatsoever and got pressed to death, funnily enough, just like the last 2 years.

The long ball came back with the return of Smith.

Don't know if his eyesight is going or if he's nesh but Gregroy can't seem to judge the flight of the ball, especially from a distance. He's always miles away from it, even close up it just randomly bounces off his head, if he actually gets near it.

 

Either way, all of our worst performances have been with him alone up front as we have long options so have to play it out.

[TheExile]

24 minutes ago, Boracic Lint said:

Far too many of our goals conceded were down to individual mistakes, switching off and indiscipline, mainly by the 'old guard'.

This has happened throughout DMs tenure.

Remember the defence stood together in the middle while Barnsley ran unopposed down the flanks in the playoffs?

We need root and branch overhaul and it was the quickest way to get some form of discipline in a short time.

As he said, they weren't up to the speed of play and needed everything simplifying as he didn't have the prep time needed before the season started.

It was a stopgap exercise to buy time but didn't work. 

Doing it didn't work, but not doing it would have been worse.

It’s somewhere in the middle though. Xisco might identify what the issues are and anyone can do that. But you also have to look at what made that team successful, limited as it was it got 96 points and that was based on aggression, determination and repetition. I agree that we needed to add something to that, particularly in the middle of the park with the likes of Momo Diaby and at the back with Bernard. Investment up front much needed but lacking so that also limits options to change

. 

But he also threw the baby out with the bath water made them hesitant, confused as to what they were meant to be doing, talking about inverted wingers which neutralised both Windass and Johnson. talked about set plays being vital and we were weak as piss on all of them. Brought in a new keeper who wasn’t any better and also starts passing to the opposition. I think without significant time and budget to really revamp the team he was the wrong man as he wanted to run before we could walk. 

The determination we saw today made sure those balls that bobbled around the box the last few weeks were cleared whether it was pretty or not. He did too much too soon and when he brought his own players in, they didn’t deliver either. So it’s on him as he didn’t manage (a difficult) situation well enough to get any results. We’ve had some woeful teams come up from league one and do better just because the manager built on strengths. 

Edited October 7, 2023 by TheExile

[Owling_Wolf]

2 minutes ago, TheExile said:

It’s somewhere in the middle though. Xisco might identify what the issues are and anyone can do that. But you also have to look at what made that team successful, limited as it was it got 96 points and that was based on aggression, determination and repetition. I agree that we needed to add something to that, particularly in the middle of the park with the likes of Momo Diaby and at the back with Bernard.

But he also threw the baby out with the bath water made them hesitant, confused as to what they were meant to be doing, talking about inverted wingers which neutralised both Windass and Johnson. talked about set plays being vital and we were weak as piss on all of them. Brought in a new keeper who wasn’t any better and also starts passing to the opposition. I think without significant time and budget to really revamp the team he was the wrong man as he wanted to run before we could walk. 

The determination we saw today made sure those balls that bobbled around the box the last few weeks were cleared whether it was pretty or not. He did too much too soon and when he brought his own players in, they didn’t deliver either. So it’s on him as he didn’t manage (a difficult) situation well enough to get any results. We’ve had some woeful teams come up from league one and do better just because the manager built on strengths. 

Spot on!

[HoylandOwl]

3 minutes ago, TheExile said:

The determination we saw today made sure those balls that bobbled around the box the last few weeks were cleared whether it was pretty or not. He did too much too soon and when he brought his own players in, they didn’t deliver either. So it’s on him as he didn’t manage (a difficult) situation well enough to get any results. We’ve had some woeful teams come up from league one and do better just because the manager built on strengths. 

This was absolutely key to a lot of today's point gained. There was no nervy passing around at the back, no panic when it went back to the keeper. (that's not a pop at Vasquez either because he didn't fanny around at West Brom).  Having that more robust, harder to break down side gave us a platform, both on the pitch and off it. The nervousness just wasn't there today at all. 

There was more of a platform to build upon today, than ANY of the previous 11 games. IMO. 

Old guard in, whether they're good enough as a unit to make a dent in this division, is debatable. BUT what they did do is show that having a collective playing for each other, in a manner which they're familiar is hard to break down. ZERO shots on target from our opposition today. No they're not fantastic, but the stats don't lie. We didn't let them play. Which we've done with almost every other team we've played against so far. 

[Boracic Lint]

2 minutes ago, TheExile said:

It’s somewhere in the middle though. Xisco might identify what the issues are and anyone can do that. But you also have to look at what made that team successful, limited as it was it got 96 points and that was based on aggression, determination and repetition. I agree that we needed to add something to that, particularly in the middle of the park with the likes of Momo Diaby and at the back with Bernard.

But he also threw the baby out with the bath water made them hesitant, confused as to what they were meant to be doing, talking about inverted wingers which neutralised both Windass and Johnson. talked about set plays being vital and we were weak as piss on all of them. Brought in a new keeper who wasn’t any better and also starts passing to the opposition. I think without significant time and budget to really revamp the team he was the wrong man as he wanted to run before we could walk. 

The determination we saw today made sure those balls that bobbled around the box the last few weeks were cleared whether it was pretty or not. He did too much too soon and when he brought his own players in, they didn’t deliver either. So it’s on him as he didn’t manage (a difficult) situation well enough to get any results. We’ve had some woeful teams come up from league one and do better just because the manager built on strengths. 

The determination, repetition and aggression is just translating into penalties, freekicks and cards as we're playing against a different type of player.

We played a very slow, measured game based on crosses into a packed box that was easily nullified by the press and counterattack with pace.

The problem is that every team, bar Huddetsfield press and counterattack with pace.

So we had nothing and had to start again.

Since we went back to 352 and reverted to the old ways, we haven't come close to scoring.

[Owling_Wolf]

6 minutes ago, Boracic Lint said:

We had Gregory up front for that game and Swansea, so had no outball whatsoever and got pressed to death, funnily enough, just like the last 2 years.

The long ball came back with the return of Smith.

Don't know if his eyesight is going or if he's nesh but Gregroy can't seem to judge the flight of the ball, especially from a distance. He's always miles away from it, even close up it just randomly bounces off his head, if he actually gets near it.

 

Either way, all of our worst performances have been with him alone up front as we have long options so have to play it out.

That game WAS Swansea. 

We didn't get "pressed to death" particularly until he started the kamikaze stuff at the back.  

You think Gregory's nesh? 😮  Right: get Fletcher back in!  

[Boracic Lint]

8 minutes ago, Owling_Wolf said:

That game WAS Swansea. 

We didn't get "pressed to death" particularly until he started the kamikaze stuff at the back.  

You think Gregory's nesh? 😮  Right: get Fletcher back in!  

Maybe not ro death.

But there was a distinct lack of outball when we were under pressure and when we were pressed.

 

As for Fletcher, honestly, I'd rather have him than Gregory this season.

I'd play Smith with somebody else over both though. Especially as we are, as he gives us an outball and he's great defensively. 

Gregory is a man who you need when you're on top and need to break the other team down, but when you're on the back foot, it's like playing with 10 men.

[TheExile]

16 minutes ago, Boracic Lint said:

The determination, repetition and aggression is just translating into penalties, freekicks and cards as we're playing against a different type of player.

We played a very slow, measured game based on crosses into a packed box that was easily nullified by the press and counterattack with pace.

The problem is that every team, bar Huddetsfield press and counterattack with pace.

So we had nothing and had to start again.

Since we went back to 352 and reverted to the old ways, we haven't come close to scoring.

The penalties have been conceded by pol Valentin, Bambo Diaby Lee Gregory and Will Vaulks. One of those was overly aggressive  by Gregory, the others were Xiscos signings after they’ve been completely mugged off. Vaulks was for a debateable hand ball. we have conceded pens despite playing to a handbook and zonal system rather than just trying to win the ball, so might as well go back to what we got record clean sheets doing. Even if we don’t get as many.

I don’t think the L1 style is a silver bullet at this level at all, but it needed some pace and power in the final third to break lines especially after FDB went and the budget for 12 players largely went elsewhere with an emphasis on players who might help play out from the back. 
 

As I say it’s easy to point to the issues but none of them were addressed by the approach taken. If you don’t have the budget to overhaul everything then don’t do it and you have to accept your team isn’t very good and work on their mentality or other things which is basically what Colin and others have done for decades. 
 

As you say he didn’t get results quick enough and there was no evidence of anything coming together, improving or any kind of identity. To try and improve issues but not actually do it (and sign 12 players) is pretty terrible work. Especially when you have the likes of argyle making the step up on a smaller budget 

[TheExile]

6 minutes ago, Boracic Lint said:

Maybe not ro death.

But there was a distinct lack of outball when we were under pressure and when we were pressed.

 

As for Fletcher, honestly, I'd rather have him than Gregory this season.

I'd play Smith with somebody else over both though. Especially as we are, as he gives us an outball and he's great defensively. 

Gregory is a man who you need when you're on top and need to break the other team down, but when you're on the back foot, it's like playing with 10 men.

Agree on Gregory. Needs to be more of an impact sub as a poacher. Smith with a quicker player beside him might be better

[Boracic Lint]

3 minutes ago, TheExile said:

The penalties have been conceded by pol Valentin, Bambo Diaby Lee Gregory and Will Vaulks. One of those was overly aggressive  by Gregory, the others were Xiscos signings after they’ve been completely mugged off. Vaulks was for a debateable hand ball. we have conceded pens despite playing to a handbook and zonal system rather than just trying to win the ball, so might as well go back to what we got record clean sheets doing. Even if we don’t get as many.

I don’t think the L1 style is a silver bullet at this level at all, but it needed some pace and power in the final third to break lines especially after FDB went and the budget for 12 players largely went elsewhere with an emphasis on players who might help play out from the back. 
 

As I say it’s easy to point to the issues but none of them were addressed by the approach taken. If you don’t have the budget to overhaul everything then don’t do it and you have to accept your team isn’t very good and work on their mentality or other things which is basically what Colin and others have done for decades. 
 

As you say he didn’t get results quick enough and there was no evidence of anything coming together, improving or any kind of identity. To try and improve issues but not actually do it (and sign 12 players) is pretty terrible work. Especially when you have the likes of argyle making the step up on a smaller budget 

Pols wasn't a pen, ref got it wrong. But look at the amount of freekicks today and before. We are a very undisciplined team.

I'd say only Bernard was to help play it out, the rest for pace and physicality, but he has been a success so far.

Pol, Musaba, Gassama, Fletcher to add pace.

The Diabys for physicality, Delgado is to add bite, another Pato.

The 2 loan midfielders have disappointed so far, but seemed to be to calm stuff down in the middle.

I don't know exactly what happened, but he made some strange decisions, seemed to be trying to get the new guys and tactics in while keeping the old lot happy and ended up in a bit of a muddle, where a Warnock would have told them to fuck off and live with it.

After Swansea I reckon he just gave up.

It was telling though who he started in his last game, when he probably picked who he actually wanted rather than the political choice.

[Owling_Wolf]

16 minutes ago, TheExile said:

Agree on Gregory. Needs to be more of an impact sub as a poacher. Smith with a quicker player beside him might be better

Windass?  (When fit.)

[Boracic Lint]

2 minutes ago, Owling_Wolf said:

Windass?  (When fit.)

Windass needs to be on the last man, anywhere else and he's wasted.

 

I don't care what people say, he's not a midfielder.

He's also scored more headers than Gregory so more reason to have him in the box.

[HoylandOwl]

11 minutes ago, Boracic Lint said:

Windass needs to be on the last man, anywhere else and he's wasted.

 

I don't care what people say, he's not a midfielder.

He's also scored more headers than Gregory so more reason to have him in the box.

I agree on this.

[Owling_Wolf]

29 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said:

I agree on this.

We all do. And he's not a winger either. 

[TheExile]

47 minutes ago, Owling_Wolf said:

Windass?  (When fit.)

Yeah either doing what he did v newcastle or just behind the striker if needing to find space. Whatever he needs to not have his back to goal 

[TheExile]

1 hour ago, Boracic Lint said:

Pols wasn't a pen, ref got it wrong. But look at the amount of freekicks today and before. We are a very undisciplined team.

I'd say only Bernard was to help play it out, the rest for pace and physicality, but he has been a success so far.

Pol, Musaba, Gassama, Fletcher to add pace.

The Diabys for physicality, Delgado is to add bite, another Pato.

The 2 loan midfielders have disappointed so far, but seemed to be to calm stuff down in the middle.

I don't know exactly what happened, but he made some strange decisions, seemed to be trying to get the new guys and tactics in while keeping the old lot happy and ended up in a bit of a muddle, where a Warnock would have told them to fuck off and live with it.

After Swansea I reckon he just gave up.

It was telling though who he started in his last game, when he probably picked who he actually wanted rather than the political choice.

The Valentin one might have got an apology but he was rinsed completely just fouled him outside the box 

I think that on paper adding that pace and physicality was a good thing but we needed more of it at the top end of the pitch and we have perhaps tinkered quite a bit with a defence which wasn’t the main issue. It’s mainly Bambo for Ihiekwe which bothers me as the former has really good recovery pace but Ihiekwe is quite calm and made a huge difference today. 
 

I think you’re right he got a bit lost amongst various styles and picks. But we’ve seen it at lots of clubs where a manager goes in and looks to break and remould to their style rather than simply taking it on the chin and accepting the capability isn’t there. I think Xisco did eventually accept that (saying he doesn’t want to play like pne whilst playing worse than Preston) but he’d already shot the confidence momentum and belief by bigging up the championship and changing the instructions too early and too quickly. Had we gone in full of confidence as the 96 point crew and got a win or two then he buys time to do the other stuff 

Edited October 7, 2023 by TheExile

[Boracic Lint]

15 minutes ago, TheExile said:

The Valentin one might have got an apology but he was rinsed completely just fouled him outside the box 

I think that on paper adding that pace and physicality was a good thing but we needed more of it at the top end of the pitch and we have perhaps tinkered quite a bit with a defence which wasn’t the main issue. It’s mainly Bambo for Ihiekwe which bothers me as the former has really good recovery pace but Ihiekwe is quite calm and made a huge difference today. 
 

I think you’re right he got a bit lost amongst various styles and picks. But we’ve seen it at lots of clubs where a manager goes in and looks to break and remould to their style rather than simply taking it on the chin and accepting the capability isn’t there. I think Xisco did eventually accept that (saying he doesn’t want to play like pne whilst playing worse than Preston) but he’d already shot the confidence momentum and belief by bigging up the championship and changing the instructions too early and too quickly. Had we gone in full of confidence as the 96 point crew and got a win or two then he buys time to do the other stuff 

I agree with Bambo. Think Ihekwe got injured earlier on, Bambo replaced him and he just kept him there because of Iorfa's injury. Ihekwe was probably always coming back once Iorfa was fit.

I don't agree with using today as an example of anything though, as this team was markedly different to every other we've played.

As for styles, I honestly think the tail wags the dog a bit at this club and some didn't buy in as much as they publicly said, and Xisco didn't have the confidence or clout to override them.

He was stuck between a rock and a hard place, can't drop them, they won't play his game. Tried to get a bit of authority with MJ and spent every press conference after getting reamed for it.

DM got away with it by just letting them do what they wanted, but that's not going to keep us up.

Whoever comes in is going to need Chansiri's full backing and thick skin, because he's going to have to change them and make some unpopular decisions, all the while being criticised from all angles.

It broke Xisco, hopefully the next man can sort it before it gets him too.

[Owling_Wolf]

1 hour ago, Boracic Lint said:

I agree with Bambo. Think Ihekwe got injured earlier on, Bambo replaced him and he just kept him there because of Iorfa's injury. Ihekwe was probably always coming back once Iorfa was fit.

I don't agree with using today as an example of anything though, as this team was markedly different to every other we've played.

As for styles, I honestly think the tail wags the dog a bit at this club and some didn't buy in as much as they publicly said, and Xisco didn't have the confidence or clout to override them.

He was stuck between a rock and a hard place, can't drop them, they won't play his game. Tried to get a bit of authority with MJ and spent every press conference after getting reamed for it.

DM got away with it by just letting them do what they wanted, but that's not going to keep us up.

Whoever comes in is going to need Chansiri's full backing and thick skin, because he's going to have to change them and make some unpopular decisions, all the while being criticised from all angles.

It broke Xisco, hopefully the next man can sort it before it gets him too.

From the 3rd paragraph onwards all that is fantasy island. You've no idea if any of that's true. 

Yes, this is a place for opinions, we all have them, but don't state them as if they're facts without providing any proof. 

[Gleadless Owl]

6 hours ago, Otto_Man said:

Let's be right we won't play many (any?) worse sides this season needed three points was disappointing not to get them, but we created so little.

We did look a team low on confidence, the Palmer mis control was clear evidence of that. I would have hooked Paterson at half time thought he was woeful.

Bernard has been the one bright spot though looks a real player.

And Moore still couldn't score against us even though he knew the team inside out 

[Gleadless Owl]

Not going to create much without Bannan and Windass. Byers struggling with the step up so far. Buckley looks a bit too lightweight, but could be a player there. Next three games are winnable, need at least 5 points

Edited October 8, 2023 by Gleadless Owl

[Boracic Lint]

5 hours ago, Owling_Wolf said:

From the 3rd paragraph onwards all that is fantasy island. You've no idea if any of that's true. 

Yes, this is a place for opinions, we all have them, but don't state them as if they're facts without providing any proof. 

It's just my view.

Hence the "I honestly think" in the first sentence if the very paragraph you mention.

May be right, may be wrong, but there's something wrong at this club that goes beyond Chansiri.

[Winco]

6 hours ago, Gleadless Owl said:

And Moore still couldn't score against us even though he knew the team inside out 

That right there is the most damming fact about DM.

shite.

we’re a team not just on the ropes but bent over ready to be fucked and he couldn’t get a hard on.

didn’t go yesterday thought I’d have a meal and few beers with mrs Winco but according to Vialli smith was fucking abysmal.