The impish hoyland derby match thread

[owl4ever1867]

I'm in a fucking foul mood....

[mkowlthesexynewversion]

2 minutes ago, HappyOwl said:

Top of the league and pissed off how does that even work ffs

Because the presumption we would be on 89 points or do 

All those predicting Accrington at home in 9 days would be a defining moment maybe not realising why that could be the case.

My only hope is that we do have 6 days to re-group and refresh somewhat 

Though tempered that our next game is at Oxford - poor record and on Sky - shit record 

 

[HappyOwl]

3 minutes ago, owl4ever1867 said:

I'm in a fucking foul mood....

I’ve got to go out in Barnsley tonight can see that ending well 😩😩

[mkowlthesexynewversion]

Stockdale now turning out for Borussia Dortmund 

[Mark]

I really hope I was dreaming but did I see Stockdale nut meg there on rushing forward or was I completely losing my shit 4 no reason ??

[TheExile]

What an absolute F**k up this is turning out to be. A disastrous change of GK also.

[Skamp]

It's looking like gross incompetence on a grand scale from Moore.

[TheExile]

Stockdale looked dodgy at Wembley and I surprised when we signed him as no 1. Too many moments of “he should’ve got to that” for me

[Paul from Wisewood]

Adeniran is wank 

[Paul from Wisewood]

Stockdale cost us 4 points in last 2 games 

[Tylluan]

We have to change our game to suit what we have left. 

3-5-2 suits our first choice 11 but we don't have our first choice and probably won't have again this season. We go on about the 'reserves' not being good enough but they aren't direct replacements. You can't compare the playing style of Byers with the driving style of FDB or the more holding style of Adeniran (who's probably closer to Vaulks) and neither Smith nor Gregory is a replacement for Windass but Moore is asking them to fill those positions without changing the style of play. Bringing these players on with 20 mins to go, to keep the tempo up, works but not when you're having to start them. That's why it's falling apart. 

Moore has always been one dimensional in this respect, even when at Donny. Today he kept 3 recognised central midfielders on the bench and started a left back in midfield just to preserve the 3-5-2 formation. A formation that doesn't work because we have no link play within our current front two. In the last two games Moore has also thrown on a forward with minimal game time and expected/hoped that he could change the game. A player like Wilks needs to grow into a game or he ends up running round trying to do too much and looking like a headless chicken. 

If it was me I'd be giving the team tomorrow off then sitting down with my coaching staff and saying this isn't working, where do we go from here. Then there'd be a load of flip chart paper on the tables to see what a team looks like if we played Bannan off Gregory or played, 3-4-3, 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 or built a midfield around FDB driving at teams. There'd be at least 10 different ideas on that table. Then on Monday the debrief would be replaced by the synopsis of the new styles and the rest of the week would be practising those against the 21s. I might even pin all the ideas around the room so the players could take a look and see the effort put in on their day off. 

Some will say now is not the time to dick about with formations and tactics because you don't have time to embed. We have to play to the strengths we have left and 3-5-2 doesn't come anywhere near those strengths so we have to make time. Giving the players a fresh perspective and making them think of something different will alter their mindset. Rolling into training to hear "we go again lads" and knowing it's still going to be the same ideas and formation will leave you jaded. That's when you look to the management to come up with something different. At the moment we're not. 

[Bellsview]

If somebody had told me I’d feel this miserable watching a SWFC side go top of the league, with just 7 league games to go, I’d have thought they were crackers.

Could only happen to Wednesday! 

[HoylandOwl]

41 minutes ago, Mark said:

I really hope I was dreaming but did I see Stockdale nut meg there on rushing forward or was I completely losing my shit 4 no reason ??

Cruyff turned him. 

[HoylandOwl]

 

[Owling_Wolf]

That's me done. I now officially have no faith whatever in this lot getting promoted. I can't believe what I'm seeing down there.  It's like a communal insanity has descended on the squad.
I hope we've already got enough points to be in the playoffs 'cos if we havent it will be  a bloody miracle if this load of bottlers get them. No bloody chance. 

[Hirstys 12th Pint]

3 minutes ago, Bellsview said:

If somebody had told me I’d feel this miserable watching a SWFC side go top of the league, with just 7 league games to go, I’d have thought they were crackers.

Could only happen to Wednesday! 

Totally Bells.

Go top of the league and feel as low as any other time in this last 20+ years shitshow.   Only at Wednesday.

I just feel for the kids.  We had a major chance of success albeit Champions on the third division but have royally fooked it up.  

[Mark]

Just now, HoylandOwl said:

Cruyff turned him. 

Ahhh. No problem then......

I mean honestly you just do NOT want your keeper doing that. In many ways it shows his self belief, which I don't think Dawson has but Stockdale should know better 

[Owling_Wolf]

19 minutes ago, Paul from Wisewood said:

Stockdale cost us 4 points in last 2 games 

In virtually identical fashion. He had some excuse on Wed as everything was wet through but not today.  I'd have taken him off at h.t.  Not just for the dismal mistake but for the ridiculous chance he took afterwards near the edge of our box. Utter stupidity in the circumstances. He wasn't the only one to do that, though: Flint also invited contact whilst he was last man.  Wtf is wrong with them?

[Paul from Wisewood]

14 minutes ago, Owling_Wolf said:

In virtually identical fashion. He had some excuse on Wed as everything was wet through but not today.  I'd have taken him off at h.t.  Not just for the dismal mistake but for the ridiculous chance he took afterwards near the edge of our box. Utter stupidity in the circumstances. He wasn't the only one to do that, though: Flint also invited contact whilst he was last man.  Wtf is wrong with them?

We’ve gone from the record number of clean sheets , tolooking like we won’t keep one again

fully expect us to lose at Oxford 

only we could go 23 unbeaten and blow promotion 

 

[Paul from Wisewood]

30 minutes ago, Owling_Wolf said:

That's me done. I now officially have no faith whatever in this lot getting promoted. I can't believe what I'm seeing down there.  It's like a communal insanity has descended on the squad.
I hope we've already got enough points to be in the playoffs 'cos if we havent it will be  a bloody miracle if this load of bottlers get them. No bloody chance. 

Same here, I left Cheltenham confident we’d had our blip and would still go up as champions 

now I fully expect us to finish 4th, and won’t be going to any play off games, couldn’t stand another light display to get knocked out by derby 

 

[Paul from Wisewood]

34 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said:

 

I like the man

but shut the fuck up Darren if you’re proud of them 

[Andyben]

41 minutes ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

We may as well have finished at 3:43 today

Yup. 

[Owling_Wolf]

1 hour ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

Another good performance from Dennis down that right hand side eh @Owling_Wolf

Not sure my post was ripping him to bits either @Tylluan just my opinion that’s he’s been poor irrespective of position.

The less said about Stockdale the better but we win today with Dawson, been treated disgustingly in my opinion.

 

Aye, obviously worth singling D.A. out on here today as he obviously cost us two points today, didn't he?  🙄

Ref. Dawson: Stockdale was lucky to start today after his howler on Wednesday but will be more than just lucky to survive today's repeat performance. 

[Owling_Wolf]

1 hour ago, Paul from Wisewood said:

I like the man

but shut the fuck up Darren if you’re proud of them 

Quite!  That interview is going to annoy a lot of people!  

[Owling_Wolf]

1 hour ago, Tylluan said:

We have to change our game to suit what we have left. 

3-5-2 suits our first choice 11 but we don't have our first choice and probably won't have again this season. We go on about the 'reserves' not being good enough but they aren't direct replacements. You can't compare the playing style of Byers with the driving style of FDB or the more holding style of Adeniran (who's probably closer to Vaulks) and neither Smith nor Gregory is a replacement for Windass but Moore is asking them to fill those positions without changing the style of play. Bringing these players on with 20 mins to go, to keep the tempo up, works but not when you're having to start them. That's why it's falling apart. 

Moore has always been one dimensional in this respect, even when at Donny. Today he kept 3 recognised central midfielders on the bench and started a left back in midfield just to preserve the 3-5-2 formation. A formation that doesn't work because we have no link play within our current front two. In the last two games Moore has also thrown on a forward with minimal game time and expected/hoped that he could change the game. A player like Wilks needs to grow into a game or he ends up running round trying to do too much and looking like a headless chicken. 

If it was me I'd be giving the team tomorrow off then sitting down with my coaching staff and saying this isn't working, where do we go from here. Then there'd be a load of flip chart paper on the tables to see what a team looks like if we played Bannan off Gregory or played, 3-4-3, 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 or built a midfield around FDB driving at teams. There'd be at least 10 different ideas on that table. Then on Monday the debrief would be replaced by the synopsis of the new styles and the rest of the week would be practising those against the 21s. I might even pin all the ideas around the room so the players could take a look and see the effort put in on their day off. 

Some will say now is not the time to dick about with formations and tactics because you don't have time to embed. We have to play to the strengths we have left and 3-5-2 doesn't come anywhere near those strengths so we have to make time. Giving the players a fresh perspective and making them think of something different will alter their mindset. Rolling into training to hear "we go again lads" and knowing it's still going to be the same ideas and formation will leave you jaded. That's when you look to the management to come up with something different. At the moment we're not. 

I actually thought the introduction of Wilks today was the catalyst for our strong finish.  We just got a short hint of it on Wednesday but today he had longer to show what he brings which is a little bit different to the others.

[Owling_Wolf]

Worth a mention here was the quality of Vaulk's cross for our goal today: perfection! 

[Chelters]

My short take on today : not bad but not good enough for what we’re trying to achieve.

Thought Flint, Vaulks and Bannan were decent, too many 6 out of 10s the rest.

Apart from a five minute spell thought Lincoln made no attempt to win the game. You can see why they have drawn half their games this season. 

[bricat]

The inactivity in the last window was either going to be a masterstroke or a total disaster. Injuries have plagued us for the last few seasons but one option, the youngsters have not been trusted. Instead we have discovered we have a set of mediocre back up players. 

[Footlikeatractionengine]

2 hours ago, Owling_Wolf said:

That's me done. I now officially have no faith whatever in this lot getting promoted. I can't believe what I'm seeing down there.  It's like a communal insanity has descended on the squad.
I hope we've already got enough points to be in the playoffs 'cos if we havent it will be  a bloody miracle if this load of bottlers get them. No bloody chance. 

Fucking hell, Fred. Is that a reasoned conclusion or knee jerk? Very forthright from a usually very reserved poster. 

[Tank_Owl2,0]

Having had time to reflect I don’t think we were as bad today as some have made out.

Stockdale did make some good saves the other night but nothing I’d not expect Dawson to have made. I know it’s easy in hindsight but I’m not sure why Moore changed it and I don’t feel it’s helped matters. I also know Dawson could have done the same as Stockdale in palming it into the path of their striker but my gut says he wouldn’t have done.

 I thought we started quite brightly and deserved the goal. They did very little and the goal was fortunate in a number of ways. The worrying thing was the impact it had on the team after conceding, even if they obviously improved after the goal by having some injection of confidence.

Second half was all us. We had chances that we’d normally at least get one from. They did nothing except trying to disrupt our routine and time waste.

Im disappointed and somewhat concerned like many and it’s strange to feel this way even though we went top of the league!
Does it mean we will/ won’t get promoted, nothings resolved until it is. 
The thing is we could win against Oxford and the corner turned, in my view it’s that finely balanced, we’ve lost a bit of confidence which is making that little bit of difference, which are the fine margins in sport. In view of the various remaining fixtures it’s still probably in  our hands and there are no games we should be afraid of.

[Billysboy]

Monumental fuck up to drop Dawson, feel the players aren't comfortable  with the decision.

[Lee]

There's a glaringly obvious thing, I think, as has been said we are without windass and byers, 2 first names in team sheet. 

With what we are bringing in from the squad we've become easy to read and far too easy to play against.

2 points from Cheltenham, forest green and Lincoln.

I agree 100% with Tys take.

This now needs proper management and making what we have work as best we can.

Technically out of our control but the other 3 teams won't win all of their games.

DM needs to have the mindset of autos is the only game in town and fkin acheive it by doing what he's paid to do.

[Owling_Wolf]

2 hours ago, Footlikeatractionengine said:

Fucking hell, Fred. Is that a reasoned conclusion or knee jerk? Very forthright from a usually very reserved poster. 

Pure gut reaction pal, but from the 'enhanced perspective' of having been up close and personal at every minute of every game of the non-winning run that has seen our prospects slump compared to our closest rivals at the top. It's not just that the results have gone against us, it's the performances that have been inexplicable and sometimes utterly abject.  

[Kiwi Owl]

5 hours ago, Owling_Wolf said:

That's me done. I now officially have no faith whatever in this lot getting promoted. I can't believe what I'm seeing down there.  It's like a communal insanity has descended on the squad.
I hope we've already got enough points to be in the playoffs 'cos if we havent it will be  a bloody miracle if this load of bottlers get them. No bloody chance. 

I cannot believe I'm saying this given how confident I was, how solid defensively we were etc, but I'm moving towards where you are 

Watching that today and the Forest Green game, there is no chance the team out there will get out of this division. The fightback at Cheltenham gave me false hope watching it today

When we played Milton Keynes, we were 2-1 down at half time but there was so much confidence within the camp that I was certain we'd get a result, even if scoring 5 was a questionable performance.

Play that game now, we don't win that game - we go on to lose.

Just how has this team gone from being like George Grahams Arsenal to Danny Wilsons Sheffield Wednesday in the space of a matter of weeks?

[Chelters]

Confidence is a funny thing.

On reflection I would say we have played worse this season and won 1-0. If we had not come off the back of 4 winless games yesterday would have seemed like a blip.

I’m not sure where we go from here, it could just be a little bit of luck goes for us and gets that bit of confidence back. But agree with Ty that maybe a rethink is needed. 

[mkowlthesexynewversion]

16 minutes ago, Chelters said:

Confidence is a funny thing.

On reflection I would say we have played worse this season and won 1-0. If we had not come off the back of 4 winless games yesterday would have seemed like a blip.

I’m not sure where we go from here, it could just be a little bit of luck goes for us and gets that bit of confidence back. But agree with Ty that maybe a rethink is needed. 

That is the nub, we have played worse and won. But during the long unbeaten run that was becoming the norm. 

I get the "I will take playing crap but win 1 - 0" route to promotion but like we are now discovering it is a precarious method.

The unbeaten run masked some very average performances, even with Byers and Windass available.

We can debate the lack of transfer activity in January. However I don't believe that was any guarantee, Moore has a very low success rate of integrating loan players into the squad in the attacking third in particular. Defensively its a higher hit rate.

What it proves more is our frankly shocking U23 set up, that beyond Shipston getting on the bench but no game time, there is no one lurking ready to take a chance.

We must have the highest average age starting 11 and for me that is now showing 

[TheExile]

All I can hope for is that if we do get a win ie when the keeper stops giving them tap ins, it might click something back into place. Just as a defeat started a bad run, it could start a good run. It’s streaky teams that fail to go up though if not addressed quick 

[mkowlthesexynewversion]

10 minutes ago, TheExile said:

All I can hope for is that if we do get a win ie when the keeper stops giving them tap ins, it might click something back into place. Just as a defeat started a bad run, it could start a good run. It’s streaky teams that fail to go up though if not addressed quick 

Not decrying the unbeaten run, but it became a noose. Almost like the longer it went on, the larger the fallout from it ending would be.

I think it did mask some average performances, in particular the inability to take the game away from the opposition. That good defending saved us, but also some opponents failing to capitalise on opportunities.

 

[Andyben]

Right. Time to hold my hands up.

Its my fault.

I've avoided watching us all season as I was so let down after last seasons play offs, and started again with the Bolton match and have started watching each match since.

I'll stop now.

[Owling_Wolf]

4 minutes ago, Andyben said:

Right. Time to hold my hands up.

Its my fault.

I've avoided watching us all season as I was so let down after last seasons play offs, and started again with the Bolton match and have started watching each match since.

I'll stop now.

**Downloads file: 'How to make a pineapple bomb."**

 

[Owling_Wolf]

15 hours ago, HappyOwl said:

I’ve got to go out in Barnsley tonight can see that ending well 😩😩

What was your punishment imposed for, Hap?   

[HoylandOwl]

After a night away from social media, and this place, I’ve just spent the last ten minutes reading around at things and oh my god. 
We’re getting relegated. Aren’t we?

Listen; I jest. Obviously. Yesterday was flatter than a snakes belly in so many ways, as soon as we got our goal I said on twitter we needed another. It followed the pattern of the last 2 against them.

Dominate the ball, have them on their heels. Score. Then. …… I’m still waiting!!

We backed off, stopped pressing higher, exemplified by the shit awful ‘tackle’ on halfway, they stride forward unopposed. Shoot, poor save. We’re on our heels. Goal.

Then, the atmosphere was awful, toxic, non supportive, and the vitriol started pouring out. Yes, I get people are pissed off. Of course I do; I wasn’t delighted but it was what? 30mins in or something. It just seemed like the naysayers were almost willing their rebound and goal.

Yeah, it’s difficult to watch right now. I get that. We’re all annoyed. But. That was just as poor. As mentioned earlier in the thread, that MK game when we went behind. Straight back on supporting the team. Not yesterday. 

It’s not in our hands anymore, as we all know, it’s disappointing but it’s not over. Do I have doubts? Absolutely. I ain’t that daft (stop it). But we can affect things positively and that reaction to yesterday was proof IMO we can negatively too. 
There’s mistakes being made, but we’ve had confidence in the players to rectify them. Again, to mention points made by others, there’s games where we’ve ground it out. The players needed us as much as we needed them. They fought, scrapped, for everything and we backed them doing it. 

DM has work to do, a lot of it. So do the players. It’s up to them to resurrect what they started. Dawson I don’t think was that harshly dropped, we’ve seen players dropped for far less. But. Stockdale hasn’t covered himself in glory either.  Sometimes changes don’t work and DM has to sort it. 
We’re here, 7 games from the end of the season top of the league. It’s not been that bad so far. 
There’s so many comments about the Wednesday way, which is quite ironic in the sense I started that thread last week. But here’s to the Wednesday way this season being one of digging in, getting those 1-0’s or whatever they may be, and get out of this god damn division. 

[Owling_Wolf]

21 hours ago, Owling_Wolf said:

Adeniran has looked good at rwb twice recently.  Also replaced Jack briefly there at the end vs Cheltenham.  

 

21 hours ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

Not for me, looked poor there and in midfield 

 

19 hours ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

He’s not played a lot there but in the lone game he started at RWB, Morecombe I think, the only times they looked threatening was down that side.

 

 

14 hours ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

Another good performance from Dennis down that right hand side eh @Owling_Wolf

Not sure my post was ripping him to bits either @Tylluan just my opinion that’s he’s been poor irrespective of position.

The less said about Stockdale the better but we win today with Dawson, been treated disgustingly in my opinion.

 

 

12 hours ago, Owling_Wolf said:

Aye, obviously worth singling D.A. out on here today as he obviously cost us two points today, didn't he?  🙄

Ref. Dawson: Stockdale was lucky to start today after his howler on Wednesday but will be more than just lucky to survive today's repeat performance. 

 

8 hours ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

I’m not singling him out, I’m highlighting his performance because you think he’s been OK down that right hand side. What did you think of him today? 

Right then, I've now had the chance to check back and remember the games he impressed me and the mates when playing rwb.  The first was at Charlton away - which was when we first discussed his performance there. Then at home to M.K. Dons: the following game, when he got an assist for Smith's goal with his cross. In both he was brought on after about an hour: at Charlton he replaced Jayden Brown who was excellent that day, presumably with Palmer swapping wings to make way. 

Dennis then kept his place for the whole 90 mins in the following home game v Morecambe, the one you mentioned above. I don't have any memory of him in that match: certainly not the negative one that you posted. We just beat them 3-0.  

Btw, it's ridiculous that you're posting about him again after yesterday's debacle. Do you really think he would have played well in that shit show? No, it's just a spiteful throwaway comment. When you originally replied in contradiction of my original positive post about him I didn't recall him playing poorly at rwb so simply asked when you meant. You answered, and now I've clarified the games where he was useful there. We don't have the same memory of Morecambe (h): no surprise, we're human. 

In summary, you obviously don't want to see him on the pitch. In contrast, I'd use him again at RWB when and if necessary. End of. 

[Chelters]

When you look at the last two games we easily could (and probably should) have won them in injury time. It needs something like that to kick us back into life. That Lincoln no. 5 could have been the difference between us going up and not. 

[Owling_Wolf]

Apologies: it looks like I've put Adeniran's 3 games at rwb in reverse order. Morecambe, Dons & Charlton (A), in that order. Which makes more sense of me & the mate discussing his relative successes there during the 2nd half at Charlton. 

[Owling_Wolf]

8 minutes ago, Chelters said:

When you look at the last two games we easily could (and probably should) have won them in injury time. It needs something like that to kick us back into life. That Lincoln no. 5 could have been the difference between us going up and not. 

Perfectly correct. You could see the players' reaction at the end: the last two games have ended with more than one of them each time laid on the ground.  

[Tank_Owl2,0]

39 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said:

After a night away from social media, and this place, I’ve just spent the last ten minutes reading around at things and oh my god. 
We’re getting relegated. Aren’t we?

Listen; I jest. Obviously. Yesterday was flatter than a snakes belly in so many ways, as soon as we got our goal I said on twitter we needed another. It followed the pattern of the last 2 against them.

Dominate the ball, have them on their heels. Score. Then. …… I’m still waiting!!

We backed off, stopped pressing higher, exemplified by the shit awful ‘tackle’ on halfway, they stride forward unopposed. Shoot, poor save. We’re on our heels. Goal.

Then, the atmosphere was awful, toxic, non supportive, and the vitriol started pouring out. Yes, I get people are pissed off. Of course I do; I wasn’t delighted but it was what? 30mins in or something. It just seemed like the naysayers were almost willing their rebound and goal.

Yeah, it’s difficult to watch right now. I get that. We’re all annoyed. But. That was just as poor. As mentioned earlier in the thread, that MK game when we went behind. Straight back on supporting the team. Not yesterday. 

It’s not in our hands anymore, as we all know, it’s disappointing but it’s not over. Do I have doubts? Absolutely. I ain’t that daft (stop it). But we can affect things positively and that reaction to yesterday was proof IMO we can negatively too. 
There’s mistakes being made, but we’ve had confidence in the players to rectify them. Again, to mention points made by others, there’s games where we’ve ground it out. The players needed us as much as we needed them. They fought, scrapped, for everything and we backed them doing it. 

DM has work to do, a lot of it. So do the players. It’s up to them to resurrect what they started. Dawson I don’t think was that harshly dropped, we’ve seen players dropped for far less. But. Stockdale hasn’t covered himself in glory either.  Sometimes changes don’t work and DM has to sort it. 
We’re here, 7 games from the end of the season top of the league. It’s not been that bad so far. 
There’s so many comments about the Wednesday way, which is quite ironic in the sense I started that thread last week. But here’s to the Wednesday way this season being one of digging in, getting those 1-0’s or whatever they may be, and get out of this god damn division. 

This.

Im sure we’ve experienced it before, when we get a mix of those fans that are regular goers to the matches just waiting for something to go wrong to grumble and those that only turn up when it’s going well and expect us to play like Brazil and win. When it doesn’t the grumbles start and the majority just sit there quietly, meaning the grumblers are the ones you hear. In some respects the team would rather there were 23k in the ground but are fans that will support them, as you say like the MK game.

Im sure Plymouth will be similar to us in looking over their shoulder at Ipswich and Barnsley, it’s definitely “squeaky bum time”. The experience in our squad now has to kick in if we are to get over the line because it’s probably the only advantage we have over the other 3.

[Andyben]

Last five games. Relegation form though innit @HoylandOwl

[HoylandOwl]

Our form is wank yeah in the last few mate. But it’s just how people slip into massive negativity straight away. 
There’s an expectation of blowing teams away and when it doesn’t happen; it’s all gone to hell. 
Yes. We should beat FGR, Cheltenham, Lincoln with the players we have. But it’s not a given, anyone who’s watched even half a season of football knows it’s never a given.

 

[owl71]

I am inclined to agree that people are being a bit too negative about yesterday.  Basically that was a game we should’ve won based on the match stats, against a team who defended doggedly, and obviously see us as their cup final.  Don’t get me wrong, last Sunday’s performance was totally unacceptable, and I am definitely questioning some of Moore’s recent team selections.  But yesterday wasn’t a terrible performance, just a team having a bad little run finding a way to not win a game they should have won.