Can the Owls make April Fools out of Pubeheads Boro....

[Andyben]

We could have been two up before they scored 

[owl4ever1867]

3 minutes ago, mkowl said:

Put 3 in there, plug the gaps at least. We were totally overwhelmed in there. Crap option but stick Palmer in there

Don't play luxury players in Gassama and Musaba.

This set up simply does not work in away games. Even worse that really should have been 4 or 5 Nil. They finally got a penalty but there were 2 others we would have called the conspiracy police about.

The definition of madness is doing the same thing, same set up and expecting a different outcome. Rohl deserves a lot of criticism today for the set up to start with and thereafter a failure to change it.

When I can see it 15 mins in, the commentators can see it, what do we pay analysts for because it seems they fucking can't 

Stick 5 in midfield, stick Ugbo up top on his own with a back 4, I'd rather draw then continue to watch us play a 343 that simply doesn't work.

Beadle

Palmer

Bernard

Ihiekwe 

Famewo

Poveda

Palmer

Bannan 

Vaulks

Johnson

Ugbo

That's away from home.

We've simply got 6 finals left, we're just 2 points away from Plymouth who occupy 4th bottom.

We simply have to win 2/3 of those games we have left to have any chance of staying up.

 

[owl4ever1867]

9 minutes ago, mkowl said:

Put 3 in there, plug the gaps at least. We were totally overwhelmed in there. Crap option but stick Palmer in there

Don't play luxury players in Gassama and Musaba.

This set up simply does not work in away games. Even worse that really should have been 4 or 5 Nil. They finally got a penalty but there were 2 others we would have called the conspiracy police about.

The definition of madness is doing the same thing, same set up and expecting a different outcome. Rohl deserves a lot of criticism today for the set up to start with and thereafter a failure to change it.

When I can see it 15 mins in, the commentators can see it, what do we pay analysts for because it seems they fucking can't 

 

Double post again - sorry

Edited April 1 by owl4ever1867

[KrolMong]

I can accept teams just being better than us. I can accept opposition players being largely better than ours. I can even accept being rolled over because we’ve tried to have a go.

What I can’t accept is teams doing the basic running bits better than us, I can’t accept us not attempting to put a body on someone, I can’t accept us winning the ball back and not one player wanting to make a forward run. I can’t accept players not being WILLING to get back into defensive shape. I am not willing to accept players jogging instead of sprinting to get back behind the ball. And I can’t accept a coach literally not doing a minutes work on trying to both defend and attack set pieces.

That was a side a today who is thinking of its future away from S6.

When you are in trouble, you have to work hard. We did not today against a very average Boro side with half a team missing.

There were some truly abysmal displays today. Vaulks, Bannan, Johnson, Ugbo, Musaba, Famewo.

Dire. That was as half hearted as I have ever seen.

[owl4ever1867]

2 minutes ago, KrolMong said:

I can accept teams just being better than us. I can accept opposition players being largely better than ours. I can even accept being rolled over because we’ve tried to have a go.

What I can’t accept is teams doing the basic running bits better than us, I can’t accept us not attempting to put a body on someone, I can’t accept us winning the ball back and not one player wanting to make a forward run. I can’t accept players not being WILLING to get back into defensive shape. I am not willing to accept players jogging instead of sprinting to get back behind the ball. And I can’t accept a coach literally not doing a minutes work on trying to both defend and attack set pieces.

That was a side a today who is thinking of its future away from S6.

When you are in trouble, you have to work hard. We did not today against a very average Boro side with half a team missing.

There were some truly abysmal displays today. Vaulks, Bannan, Johnson, Ugbo, Musaba, Famewo.

Dire. That was as half hearted as I have ever seen.

Shame Vaulks weren't sent off - only passion & fight hes got is shouting in the officials face.

[mkowl]

5 minutes ago, KrolMong said:

I can accept teams just being better than us. I can accept opposition players being largely better than ours. I can even accept being rolled over because we’ve tried to have a go.

What I can’t accept is teams doing the basic running bits better than us, I can’t accept us not attempting to put a body on someone, I can’t accept us winning the ball back and not one player wanting to make a forward run. I can’t accept players not being WILLING to get back into defensive shape. I am not willing to accept players jogging instead of sprinting to get back behind the ball. And I can’t accept a coach literally not doing a minutes work on trying to both defend and attack set pieces.

That was a side a today who is thinking of its future away from S6.

When you are in trouble, you have to work hard. We did not today against a very average Boro side with half a team missing.

There were some truly abysmal displays today. Vaulks, Bannan, Johnson, Ugbo, Musaba, Famewo.

Dire. That was as half hearted as I have ever seen.

Interesting point about a side thinking of next season away from S6. Rohl seemed to mention pre match that this is all put to one side until the season is finished. The reality is different, players have mortgages to pay so they are bound to be thinking about it.

It is more prevalent away from home, they don't want the crowd turning and indeed today the fact at 2 down the Wednesday fans went full voice means the criticism is not directly faced 

 

[Owling_Wolf]

3 hours ago, Supercockle said:

Me too. He can’t be as bad as he was Friday. 

Oh yes he fecking could!

[Owling_Wolf]

3 hours ago, Teddy Nickelarse said:

Looked out of sorts on Friday but likely that Musaba sticks to what Danny asks of him in terms of shape/tactics. Sort of hinted at it in Friday's post match interview plus he is capable of causing defenders real problems on occasions.

Ours or theirs?

[Reesh]

21 minutes ago, owl4ever1867 said:

Shame Vaulks weren't sent off - only passion & fight hes got is shouting in the officials face.

What a crock of fucking shit that post is.

 

Go have a nap and take your tablets you dozy ****.

[TheExile]

To quote Brian Laws, feeling lower than a snakes belly after the last few games. Redemption has been there for them but now they don’t want to finish the job 

Edited April 1 by TheExile

[bradowl]

23 minutes ago, KrolMong said:

I can accept teams just being better than us. I can accept opposition players being largely better than ours. I can even accept being rolled over because we’ve tried to have a go.

What I can’t accept is teams doing the basic running bits better than us, I can’t accept us not attempting to put a body on someone, I can’t accept us winning the ball back and not one player wanting to make a forward run. I can’t accept players not being WILLING to get back into defensive shape. I am not willing to accept players jogging instead of sprinting to get back behind the ball. And I can’t accept a coach literally not doing a minutes work on trying to both defend and attack set pieces.

That was a side a today who is thinking of its future away from S6.

When you are in trouble, you have to work hard. We did not today against a very average Boro side with half a team missing.

There were some truly abysmal displays today. Vaulks, Bannan, Johnson, Ugbo, Musaba, Famewo.

Dire. That was as half hearted as I have ever seen.

I agree with this, abysmal performance, made an average championship side look like Real Madrid, we were chasing shadows most of second half and weren't much better in first. 

Even after heavy defeat at Ipswich I was still optimistic about staying up, we haven't a prayer on that performance. 

[Owling_Wolf]

26 minutes ago, mkowl said:

Interesting point about a side thinking of next season away from S6. Rohl seemed to mention pre match that this is all put to one side until the season is finished. The reality is different, players have mortgages to pay so they are bound to be thinking about it.

It is more prevalent away from home, they don't want the crowd turning and indeed today the fact at 2 down the Wednesday fans went full voice means the criticism is not directly faced 

 

It was today. At the end a loud minority booed them and kept booing them when they tried to clap the fans.  Rôhl didn't come too close.

[HoylandOwl]

51 minutes ago, Andyben said:

We could have been two up before they scored 

We could have been. You're right. I thought we were decent. But it just ebbed away into nothingness. 

[HoylandOwl]

DR is bang on 

 

[Reesh]

None of this will matter much anyway, Israel have apparently killed a senior Iranian revolutionary guard in Syria so expect WW3 to kick off.

[Andyben]

Just now, Reesh said:

None of this will matter much anyway, Israel have apparently killed a senior Iranian revolutionary guard in Syria so expect WW3 to kick off.

Wish I had that on my  coupon 

[Reesh]

2 minutes ago, Andyben said:

Wish I had that on my  coupon 

Never back late kick offs.

[KrolMong]

There are several things we need to do away from home…

1. No more 3-4-3.

2. Ugbo has to play down the middle and not wide.

3. One of the back three has to be Liam Palmer if Bernard isn’t fit.

4. If Vaulks is fit, the base of our midfield has to be Palmer and Vaulks. You can then mix the three ahead of them, but Poveda has to be always playing. I’d even be tempted to go with a 3-4-2-1 and have Bannan and Poveda behind Ugbo. 

5. Gassama and Musaba are late subs away from home when we get penned in. But you can’t start either of them. We don’t have the ball which means they are passengers.

6. I want to see evidence of set piece work from the training ground. Röhl has not addressed it, no plan for defending corners and no plan to attacking them. You put the ball in the right area in our box, and you will get a chance.

[Reesh]

1 minute ago, KrolMong said:

There are several things we need to do away from home…

1. No more 3-4-3.

2. Ugbo has to play down the middle and not wide.

3. One of the back three has to be Liam Palmer if Bernard isn’t fit.

4. If Vaulks is fit, the base of our midfield has to be Palmer and Vaulks. You can then mix the three ahead of them, but Poveda has to be always playing. I’d even be tempted to go with a 3-4-2-1 and have Bannan and Poveda behind Ugbo. 

5. Gassama and Musaba are late subs away from home when we get penned in. But you can’t start either of them. We don’t have the ball which means they are passengers.

6. I want to see evidence of set piece work from the training ground. Röhl has not addressed it, no plan for defending corners and no plan to attacking them. You put the ball in the right area in our box, and you will get a chance.

Hasn't he said he wants a set piece coach to come in? Granted he should have done some work on the issues at hand by now anyway.

[bradowl]

10 minutes ago, Reesh said:

None of this will matter much anyway, Israel have apparently killed a senior Iranian revolutionary guard in Syria so expect WW3 to kick off.

Yeah but what's Putin's view on this? 🙄

[Owling_Wolf]

That was frightening. Poor before they scored, complete lack of drive or ambition, absolute lack of quality passing. Some individuals trying but no convincing teamwork. 

After conceding, half just downed tools. Musaba again, but Ugbo surprised me. Keeper urgently trying to chuck the ball out: Ugbo 30 - 40 yards out, in front of box, facing away, slowly walking away. Never looked round. Wtf?  

After the unlucky 2nd goal they basically gave up. Standing arguing with each other after yet another failed attacking corner whilst half of 'boro was streaming away towards our goal with the ball. WTF? (Again.)

We've been successful under DR in Dec & up 'til L**ds recently because the players obviously bought into him, his message and the results it brought them.  Now I'm worried that the bubble's burst, just when we needed them to keep believing and finish the job: just when our rivals looked like capitulating. There was no belief or togetherness on show today, just apathy, frustration, petulence, idleness and a very poor performance.  This will take some coming back from. I can't see it. 

[holmesfield_owl]

A heavy lacklustre defeat at QPR may well finish off the fanbase, we have to set up strong, less luxury players if you like, a defeat there with bad results and we'll not turn a five or six points with GD round.

Players need to grow a fucking pair.

[Tank_Owl2,0]

I only saw the first half, but it was enough to know things didn’t look like we were likely to get anything, even though their goal was slightly fortunate. As some have said and AB points out we did have chances to score before they did and it could have made a difference and given them something to fight for.

From what you’ve all said, it sounds like the 2nd half wasn’t good. I’m struggling to believe it was as bad as XMs tenure but I also think the players looked proper crest fallen after not winning on Friday. Getting out of the bottom 3 on Friday might just have given them that bit of belief to fight that 5% more.

Clearly it not all done yet but the signs don’t look good. A mini run of points from wins and draws in the next couple or three is essential. So I think whilst I absolutely understand DRs intent about trying to win games a bit of pragmatism and making games tight for 70mins might be what’s needed at least against QPR/ Norwich. Too many players that are as others have said luxuries, eg Musaba (don’t get me wrong the lads get potential in the right team). And with the ability to make so many substitutions it’s not out of the question to change things, even though there’s no certainties in football it’s clear a change of plan during the game can work and has under DR.

However, it’s hard to see what team selection could actually achieve that given the deficiencies of some and injuries of others.

Huddersfield look like they are really struggling it’s whether we can get enough to pass them and Plymouth. I still think we need 3 wins, which after today it’s hard to see which of our remaining games we could do that in. Stoke maybe, West Brom (if they rest most of their best players) but that will be tough, maybe Sunderland they’ve nothing to play for, I suspect QPR will be too much for us, Norwich might be very nervous but they’re also 6th for a reason and let’s hope Blackburn have sealed their safety and have their flip flops on.

It feels like DR is going to have to pick them up akin to what DM did last season for the playoff 2nd leg

[Tank_Owl2,0]

3 hours ago, mkowl said:

Put 3 in there, plug the gaps at least. We were totally overwhelmed in there. Crap option but stick Palmer in there

Don't play luxury players in Gassama and Musaba.

This set up simply does not work in away games. Even worse that really should have been 4 or 5 Nil. They finally got a penalty but there were 2 others we would have called the conspiracy police about.

The definition of madness is doing the same thing, same set up and expecting a different outcome. Rohl deserves a lot of criticism today for the set up to start with and thereafter a failure to change it.

When I can see it 15 mins in, the commentators can see it, what do we pay analysts for because it seems they fucking can't 

But who does he change it for?
Not particularly disagreeing with you btw, but there are some that aren’t good enough, some just aren’t going to be match fit either because they’ve not played (Hendrick) or carrying injuries (Iorfa/ Poveda). Yes there is a group more than 15/16 that are in full training but it’s hard to see any/many that DR can utilise to change things. 
The left back / left wing back is a problem (as we’ve known for a long time) and the centre midfield and more generally the midfield doesn’t give a back four enough cover when we don’t have the ball and isn’t creative enough if we go with the likes of Palmer in there.

So yes change it but how.

[mkowl]

23 minutes ago, Tank_Owl2,0 said:

But who does he change it for?
Not particularly disagreeing with you btw, but there are some that aren’t good enough, some just aren’t going to be match fit either because they’ve not played (Hendrick) or carrying injuries (Iorfa/ Poveda). Yes there is a group more than 15/16 that are in full training but it’s hard to see any/many that DR can utilise to change things. 
The left back / left wing back is a problem (as we’ve known for a long time) and the centre midfield and more generally the midfield doesn’t give a back four enough cover when we don’t have the ball and isn’t creative enough if we go with the likes of Palmer in there.

So yes change it but how.

The fundamental issues have been the same all season.

There are too many weak links, so centre mid always been light, wing backs no real cover, no centre half that is dominant, our attacking players too inconsistent. 

Just watching Hull and on a basic technical level they are way ahead of us.

I don't dispute your point that there is little available really but what annoyed me today that the pattern of the game did not change from the 5th minute to the 75th, we weren't really getting anywhere near them. If we got the ball the options were not close by.

I am a firm believer that midfield is the pivotal part of any team. If you are weak in that area then you will struggle most games

[Andyben]

Hear me out...but do you know where Bannan looks most effective now - in Famewo 's position or as an othrodox left back.

His little burst of pace, tackling and ability to nick the ball then use it in tight positions and use it to switch play quickly with a 70yd crossfield pass could be a great asset.

He's not got the legs to play where Neymarv does but could definitely play in the defensive role and hes only an inch (or so) shorter than Mascherano who don't do that bad back there.

We all know that he can't play in a two, especially as Vaulks can't play facing our net or on the half turn.

So we play Vaulks with Palmer in midfield in the absence of anything else- unless we take a punt on someone from the U23s, with Windass, Gassama  or ahead and Smith up with Ugbo.

Playing Smith allows us to stop fucking about at the back with Ugbo/Cadz/Musaba off him

Beadle

Bernard Ihiekwe Bannan 

Pol.V Vaulks Palmer Neymarv

Windass

Ugbo Smith

Edited April 1 by Andyben

[Tank_Owl2,0]

Interesting you’ve gone with Smith and Ugbo. We know Smith has his limitations but DR has said previously how Ugbo can work better off a player like Smith.

Im not convinced the pairing of Ugbo and Cadamateri works well despite the undoubted pace, particularly away from home.

[mkowl]

A stat I saw on X earlier, not double checked is that Bannan has 1 assist this season. As our alleged creative force that is woeful.

 

[mkowl]

1 minute ago, Tank_Owl2,0 said:

Interesting you’ve gone with Smith and Ugbo. We know Smith has his limitations but DR has said previously how Ugbo can work better off a player like Smith.

Im not convinced the pairing of Ugbo and Cadamateri works well despite the undoubted pace, particularly away from home.

The point raised in commentary today and certainly my view is that the front 3 rarely work as a combined force. Either attacking or front phase of defence. The way that they were by passed, but then so were Bannan and Vaulks so easily.

 

[Andyben]

8 minutes ago, mkowl said:

A stat I saw on X earlier, not double checked is that Bannan has 1 assist this season. As our alleged creative force that is woeful.

 

But he does have lots of assisting the assist...

[Owling_Wolf]

28 minutes ago, mkowl said:

A stat I saw on X earlier, not double checked is that Bannan has 1 assist this season. As our alleged creative force that is woeful.

 

But there's been lots of times he's threaded the killer ball through the defence for a Marv / Gassama / Musaba to cross or pull it back for the scorer.  That doesn't seem to get recorded / valued. 

(I hadn't seen Bendy's preceding post when I posted this.)

Edited April 1 by Owling_Wolf

[mkowl]

12 minutes ago, Owling_Wolf said:

But there's been lots of times he's threaded the killer ball through the defence for a Marv / Gassama / Musaba to cross or pull it back for the scorer.  That doesn't seem to get recorded / valued. 

(I hadn't seen Bendy's preceding post when I posted this.)

It's the Championship, its the least he needs to do surely ? 

The reality is he is past his best and is now below the average level in terms of all round play compared to the others in this league. The fact he remains our most likely option just re-iterates how far we need to improve. 

[80s Owl]

I expected a reaction this weekend after the Ipswich debacle, I didn't expect that reaction to be two of the worst performances of the season at a time when we needed the players to dig in, I truly think we're doomed to L1.

[Owling_Wolf]

1 hour ago, mkowl said:

It's the Championship, its the least he needs to do surely ? 

The reality is he is past his best and is now below the average level in terms of all round play compared to the others in this league. The fact he remains our most likely option just re-iterates how far we need to improve. 

I supplied a fact, not an opinion.  Like your fact of him only having one assist, (if I remember correctly.) 

[Tewksbury]

8 hours ago, Owling_Wolf said:

But there's been lots of times he's threaded the killer ball through the defence for a Marv / Gassama / Musaba to cross or pull it back for the scorer.  That doesn't seem to get recorded / valued. 

(I hadn't seen Bendy's preceding post when I posted this.)

It is recorded as a goal creating action.

 

[Andyben]

Fuck me that's depressing reading considering for most of the season he was in every single dead ball

[mkowl]

7 hours ago, Owling_Wolf said:

I supplied a fact, not an opinion.  Like your fact of him only having one assist, (if I remember correctly.) 

It's all opinions, even some stats to an extent are judgement based.

The point is the team has been built around Bannan for several seasons. Clearly he was too good for League 1 but very much the conclusion is now he is below what is required in the Championship 

In part that is the calibre, lack thereof, around him but also age catching up with him somewhat. 

Interesting to hear Carricks comments about how they sort to nullify us, control the ball, stop our transitions.

We made it easy for them by the collective attitude problem, but also this system does not work with Bannan in a 2 with Vaulks.

We have many weak links, so yep we address one aspect it creates an issue elsewhere. But I will bore for England that central midfield is not the place to go light and Rohl is not seeing that either

 

[HoylandOwl]

11 hours ago, mkowl said:

The point raised in commentary today and certainly my view is that the front 3 rarely work as a combined force. Either attacking or front phase of defence. The way that they were by passed, but then so were Bannan and Vaulks so easily.

 

If Vaulks hadn't talked himself into the yellow card, after the AWFUL decision from the ref after Azaz dived, that might have been different re Will as he'd started the game VERY well. 

[HoylandOwl]

Some fans now calling for DR's head apparently on social media, I haven't gone looking for it. Ludicrous. 

I'd rather keep a bloke learning his trade, who has done VERY well so far and has so much potential. Rather than jumping back on the merry go round.

[mkowl]

22 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said:

If Vaulks hadn't talked himself into the yellow card, after the AWFUL decision from the ref after Azaz dived, that might have been different re Will as he'd started the game VERY well. 

i think the yellow came out for the challenge 

He nearly talked himself into the red for dissent 

I agree the ref bought that challenge - but lets not moan too much he could have easily given them 2 pens before the one he did 

[mkowl]

12 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said:

Some fans now calling for DR's head apparently on social media, I haven't gone looking for it. Ludicrous. 

I'd rather keep a bloke learning his trade, who has done VERY well so far and has so much potential. Rather than jumping back on the merry go round.

Of course he should be not be sacked - rightly I think he should be criticised for his tactical set up in these away games and not changing system. 

But then most of us accept he is trying to coach a bag of shite player wise. 

 

[Teddy Nickelarse]

20 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said:

Some fans now calling for DR's head apparently on social media, I haven't gone looking for it. Ludicrous. 

I'd rather keep a bloke learning his trade, who has done VERY well so far and has so much potential. Rather than jumping back on the merry go round.

Madness. I said early in his tenure that I'd  accept relegation if he stayed and used League 1 and the contract expirations for a properly reset. Clearly he's  still learning his trade but he's a real talent IMO.

 

Edited April 2 by Teddy Nickelarse

[Tylluan]

Been giving some thought to @Andyben idea of playing Bannan in defence and was wondering if he could play the Glenn Hoddle Swindon/Chelsea 'sweeper' role, especially if we're going to insist on playing out short. We've all seen the number of times he used to drop too deep and leave the gap in the middle. 

I think he could get a few more years out of his career playing that role lower down but it's too late to be experimenting this season. 

 

 

[Tylluan]

21 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said:

Some fans now calling for DR's head apparently on social media, I haven't gone looking for it. Ludicrous. 

They're reacting to Foster's sacking at Plymouth

 

 

Idiots

[BraddersTim]

Warnock in at Plymuff would be exactly what we don't need to happen.

[Andyben]

Aberdeen 

[Andyben]

8 minutes ago, Tylluan said:

Been giving some thought to @Andyben idea of playing Bannan in defence and was wondering if he could play the Glenn Hoddle Swindon/Chelsea 'sweeper' role, especially if we're going to insist on playing out short. We've all seen the number of times he used to drop too deep and leave the gap in the middle. 

I think he could get a few more years out of his career playing that role lower down but it's too late to be experimenting this season. 

 

 

Do do you play him as a defensive LM tucked inside Neymarv alongside Vaulks n Palmer

[Tylluan]

He could go slightly in front of a back 4 in a 4-1-4-1 which is where Hoddle played himself and he could cover across the back line and pick up short within the gaps. 

He had arguably his best seasons with us playing left so it makes sense to place him there but if he's also going to be the defensive outlet then he becomes easy to shut down and we could become lopsided trying to assist. However he also could be a useful decoy as we lure the opposition over then switch to release Valentin down the right. 

[Chelters]

I decided to venture to Cheltenham v Exeter yesterday. They are in a similar position to us : terrible start, positive manager change, improvement but just can’t get out of the relegation zone. And they can’t buy a penalty either.

As for us, well it’s been a disappointing Easter to say the least, I think we were hoping for 4 points, maybe 3, but one point doesn’t feel like enough at this stage.

The QPR game is massive now, we have to get something from it but I fear our fragility in away games is going to hit again as they will be on the front foot with a good crowd, I think we might crumble. But a win could see us out of the relegation zone of course.

If we do go down, DC has to pull out the stops to get DR to stay but I wonder if he might have to trim the back room team a bit. 

[KrolMong]

If we go down, I don’t see any scenario at all where Danny Röhl is coach next year.

1. Chansiri will look to blame the coaching staff for this given that, in his eyes, he’s had 35 games to save us.

2. I can’t see that Rohl will want the fun of League One, and his stock will be high enough to get a second division club in the UK or in Germany. He’s largely going to come out of this blameless unless he doesn’t pick up another win this season.