Miwarlll cockenee match thread

[Reesh]

Let's be reyt he's not the first German to be turned over on November 11th

[Tank_Owl2,0]

23 minutes ago, Tank_Owl2,0 said:

Very disappointing today.

As soon as they came on the pitch I was concerned at the size of their team and knowing we had Johnson, BB, Musaba and Gassama that aren’t going to win many headers. Was it Fletcher that was supposed to be marking their 3 that scored their first, enough said if so. Fletcher is one of the worst loanees we’ve had, and we know we have had some shite.

DR has clearly made an impact but has also has to try and make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

Smith and Gregory aren’t going to score 20 in this league but having neither of them available today was going to be a problem. Smith gives you the hustle and bustle and can score a goal, Gregory has that experience. We looked utterly toothless. Danny did do well for his first proper 45mins but it was going to be tough against an experienced Championship team like Millwall.

Despite the disappointment I think the score flattered Millwall even if they did enough to win. Tbf to DR I feel he went for it 2nd half which was always a risk and unfortunately a 0-2 becomes a 0-4.

Im not for throwing the towel in yet, but only because 4th bottom might still be possible but we need to pick up points, ie if we can’t win, don’t lose. I’ve not seen QPR but Rotherham and Huddersfield look poor teams as well. If by some miracle we could get a tune out of Smith, Gregory and DC until Jan then who know, but I agree it looks very difficult.

I agree with others Diaby is poor, Icky might not be much better but I just feel he’s a better positional sense. Diaby is probably getting the nod because he’s thought to be better in the air, I’m  not so sure.

My worry is the manager goes at the end of the season, to me he looks like one of the few assets we have.

It’s Bailey, not Danny - of course!

[Hirstys 12th Pint]

20 minutes ago, Tank_Owl2,0 said:

I understand what people are saying about playing BB in a two in centre midfield and I agree. However I think he did provide some of the better bits of play going forward, eg the run and pass for Musaba (that he blazed over - you’ve got to hit the target from there!)

My criticism of having 2 in the middle wasn't really aimed at Bannans performance as was one of our better players.

[Snap]

10 minutes ago, Tank_Owl2,0 said:

My worry is the manager goes at the end of the season, to me he looks like one of the few assets we have.

My worry is we could become a yo yo team between league one and the championship. That recruitment prior to the season start just illustrates our problems. We got promoted with an ageing squad and without the finances to recruit which was evident in the signings we made.Just a few random signings and loans, chucked them all together and hoped it worked with I'd bet was also the cheapest managerial option. That was "Going for it" apparently.

An additional problem we'll have if relegated is the ticket prices, season ticket sales and attendances. That's not going to help pay the loan/debt down. There's a lot of disgruntled supporters out there paying top dollar to see crap.

So if we can't do it via financial clout the other way is through shrewd bargain bucket signings and youth. I hate to say it but the wilderpig did it. DR can do it, we need to commit to him and hope he commits to us.

Key to this is not only giving the manager time but also the new head of recruitment whoever he may be. He'll have just as an important role as DR. If DC can get that right and keep DR in place I can live with another year in the pub league. I'll not like it, but I can live with it. 

 

[Snap]

12 minutes ago, Hirstys 12th Pint said:

My criticism of having 2 in the middle wasn't really aimed at Bannans performance as was one of our better players.

Did Byers go off injured? I thought he was having a decent game. 

[Snap]

Did anyone notice the song being played in the stadium at the end of the game? Quite apt really.

[mkowl]

16 minutes ago, Snap said:

Did Byers go off injured? I thought he was having a decent game. 

I actually think midfield is where we have relative strength but it's always been better with 3 in there not just 2 

Was surprised that Byers got hooked assuming it was tactical 

[HoylandOwl]

Today was so frustrating because in that first 30 minutes we were the better side by some stretch, and if Musaba would have put that shot in, instead of hitting the moon with it (obviously jesting)... it would have been a different game. 

We were passing with a confidence, moving well as a unit, and aside from some ring rust from Johnson we looked in control. 

Fletcher worked hard before the first mark on the scoresheet, but he's just far from the answer for us. But we already knew that. Cadamarteri offered so much more, forced a good save, was as busy as Fletcher had been and created chances too. TBH, I'd give Bailey more of a go between now and January. Then we need to get someone in with proven quality, which will be difficult but... Not impossible depending on what DC wants from this season of course.

I thought it was rough on Byers to come off at HT, and Hendrick showed absolutely zero when he came on as his replacement aside from everything that Reading fans had been saying about him. He's just not the player for a fight. At all. 

Fletcher and Hendrick's loans need cancelling in January, and replacing with better players. Unless Momo Diaby comes back in to replace Hendrick, and can pick up where he left off before the injury. 

Their keeper's save from Pato was fantastic in the second half, although the game was already gone by then. 

Today represents a massive marker, if Röhl needed it, of what's needed for us. I'd like the steel of Ihiekwe back in the side, he didn't do anything wrong v Rotherham and at times dominated our box. Something which we far from did today. 

As mentioned elsewhere, I don't think Vasquez would have done much different for the first goal and I'm not totally blaming Dawson, that's more shocking defending that keeping IMO. But the third... Oh dear. 

However, I'm not justifying the booing of him after that goal. While the game is ongoing, dead or not, booing our own players is something which I'll never agree with. Full time, nothing wrong with it if it's justified, but during the game? Nope. 

Ah well. A LONG international break ahead... This 'mini pre season' as Röhl puts it, is huge for so many reasons. But more than everything we need to come out of it all hands to the pump fighting for every point. 

 

[HoylandOwl]

 

[Tylluan]

19 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said:

TBH, I'd give Bailey more of a go between now and January

As @Reesh has said we need to nurse Bailey into first team games. He had a double hernia op at the back end of last season and the rigours of first team football are a lot different from 21s. He does it again and he could be out for a year. 

 

[Wor-Jackie]

Not that it makes a massive difference now however, my first impressions for the first goal was that Iorfa was pinned down by one of their players hence why they had a free header.

[Neville Facking Bartos]

2 hours ago, Hirstys 12th Pint said:

My criticism of having 2 in the middle wasn't really aimed at Bannans performance as was one of our better players.

They were both way too deep and both got sucked in to wide areas, not bad just one but not both together. 

2 hours ago, Snap said:

I thought he was having a decent game. 

 

2 hours ago, mkowl said:

Was surprised that Byers got hooked assuming it was tactical 

Really? I thought he was poor today, I said at HT that I’d pull him and Pato, the latter got done time and again either through being caught too high or just being played around too easily. Having said that Hendrick was even worse, though Vaulk did ok at Bristol City too so no idea why he wasn’t given the nod.

As for the rest, only BC gets any credit, Bannan too but for that corner. I didn’t mind Johnson or Iorfa’s performance but that’s it, nothing else.

I’d send Fletcher, Hendrick, Vasquez and Buckley back. To have any chance of stopping up we’ll need a number 1, a striker, a wing back that plays either flank and a midfielder. A centre back would be good too

Tough times 

 

Edited November 11 by Neville Facking Bartos

[Tank_Owl2,0]

25 minutes ago, Wor-Jackie said:

Not that it makes a massive difference now however, my first impressions for the first goal was that Iorfa was pinned down by one of their players hence why they had a free header.

I don’t know about pinned but there was definitely some blocking of runs so that their runners could get the headers in, which will come from practicing good set pieces. Something I’m expecting DR will want from us.

I agree with Hoyland as well, booing your own keeper during a game isn’t the brightest thing to do, even if he has been at fault.

Btw, the ref was absolutely rank today. It would be wrong to say we lost because of him but my god he was incredibly inconsistent and totally clueless with some of the decisions. It’s just galling on the back of some recent poor officials, eg at Bristol.

 

 

[Snap]

9 minutes ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

Having said that Hendrick was even worse

There we go.

[Neville Facking Bartos]

@HoylandOwl Ihekwe didn’t play vs Rotherham, has he actually played for Rohl yet? 

[Snap]

All in my opinion only.

Dawson-Garbage.

Paterson- He tries hard sometimes bless him, he has to go.

Barnard-Average, but with potential.

Iorfa- I do have a soft spot for Big Dom, he seemed to have lost what he had but he's back to his best now.

Diaby- Gives his best but Ihiekwe is far better IMHO.

Johnson- Garbage, can't beat his man to utilise that sweet left foot he undoubtedly has.

Byers- A Trojan, goes about and does his business.

Bannan- Great player but he's on the wain. We need a new boss in midfield and a new team captain. He can still play a role though.

Musaba- Rubber legs, exciting at times as well as irritating.

Gassama- The future, looks a reight player.

Fletcher- Taxi please.

[Supercockle]

1 hour ago, Wor-Jackie said:

Not that it makes a massive difference now however, my first impressions for the first goal was that Iorfa was pinned down by one of their players hence why they had a free header.

They had us 4 on 3 in a little group for the corner. Their 3 occupied our three whilst the other guy attacked the ball and had a free header at goal.  

[80s Owl]

3 hours ago, Snap said:

Did anyone notice the song being played in the stadium at the end of the game? Quite apt really.

Probably very few heard it.

I feel a bit shellshocked after todays game, I thought the obvious improvements under Rohl would come to fruition and we'd beat a bang average Millwall side, the first 20mins bore this out as our passing and movement was a joy to watch, the miss by Musaba was a turning point when Millwall went straight up the other end, won a corner and scored the easiest header you'll ever see, then the floodgates opened.

I'm not sure now if Rohls the messiah or a very naughty boy but I do know that horrible recruitment in the summer (by who knows who) has killed us.

L1 football next season I'm afraid.

 

 

[HoylandOwl]

1 hour ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

@HoylandOwl Ihekwe didn’t play vs Rotherham, has he actually played for Rohl yet? 

Apologies.

not Rotherham. Huddersfield

 

[LiamOwl]

I think Rohl said something in the press conference about being happy with his back 3 as they all had pace. Might be that that’s keeping Ihiekwe out the side.

[Snap]

1 hour ago, 80s Owl said:

Probably very few heard it.

I feel a bit shellshocked after todays game, I thought the obvious improvements under Rohl would come to fruition and we'd beat a bang average Millwall side, the first 20mins bore this out as our passing and movement was a joy to watch, the miss by Musaba was a turning point when Millwall went straight up the other end, won a corner and scored the easiest header you'll ever see, then the floodgates opened.

I'm not sure now if Rohls the messiah or a very naughty boy but I do know that horrible recruitment in the summer (by who knows who) has killed us.

L1 football next season I'm afraid.

 

 

The exit song was "Don't stop believing" by Journey, certainly in my top ten.

 

[mkowl]

Anyway who is ready for a depressing stat.

Since the midpoint of the 2019/20  Championship season when we sat 3rd in the table, we have played 85 games at this level and amassed a grand total of 70 points.

 

[mkowl]

To add we have only won 17 drawn 19 so lost 49 

A win percentage of 20%

So good news Rohl is at least hitting that target.

But we basically lose 3 games in each 5 we play which suggests we have been below Championship standard for a long time. 

So we can dispel the myth that the squad last year was that level. Equally if that squad was now in League 1, I have seen it suggested it would be bottom. My view, we would be top 4 still.

Football is about margins, at present we are 10% say below the required standard. In League we would still be 10% above. 

 

[Winco]

Arnt you a barrel of laughs  this morning.

[mkowl]

45 minutes ago, Winco said:

Arnt you a barrel of laughs  this morning.

It's less depressing than watching the news.

 

[mkowl]

I would try and post something positive about us, but having pondered for 10 minutes I have given up.

 

[Winco]

I’m up town already 🥷

[TheExile]

I think we need to use L1 as an opportunity to build if we cannot simply do a short term escape and then react in the Championship which is what we have done and seemingly failed. Albeit I think much of it was poor decision making. 

Ipswich and Sunderland didn’t escape L1 quickly but as a result and especially the latter, they built a side on a reasonable budget in the grand scheme of things that then took them two steps forward. Same with Plymouth. I’d be keeping players like Ihiekwe Vaulks and Smith at that level as you need that physicality and they are good characters but could L1 be a good place for the likes of cadermarteri, Phuti, Shipston et al to make a genuine breakthrough. 

[holmesfield_owl]

1 hour ago, TheExile said:

I think we need to use L1 as an opportunity to build if we cannot simply do a short term escape and then react in the Championship which is what we have done and seemingly failed. Albeit I think much of it was poor decision making. 

Ipswich and Sunderland didn’t escape L1 quickly but as a result and especially the latter, they built a side on a reasonable budget in the grand scheme of things that then took them two steps forward. Same with Plymouth. I’d be keeping players like Ihiekwe Vaulks and Smith at that level as you need that physicality and they are good characters but could L1 be a good place for the likes of cadermarteri, Phuti, Shipston et al to make a genuine breakthrough. 

Shipston seems to have gone backwards, only on bench last I looked

[Tylluan]

2 hours ago, holmesfield_owl said:

Shipston seems to have gone backwards, only on bench last I looked

Only just turned 19 (5 days ago) and we're saying he's gone backwards. 

He took a knock at the end of pre season and has had niggles ever since. He's also found himself behind first teamers, like Bakinson, Johnson, Wills, getting game time in the 21s. 

He didn't look out of place when Moore gave him minutes in league 1 and if he's fit in January then I'd send him out on loan. 

But he's not going backwards 

[Reesh]

2 hours ago, holmesfield_owl said:

Shipston seems to have gone backwards, only on bench last I looked

Again a prime example of Ill informed bollocks based on looking at the OS rather than watching games.