Neymarv's situation....

[HoylandOwl]

Like this suggests... Is it akin to Hutch and Westwood? Or, is it a case of Xisco just doesn't see him as part of the squad?

Looking outside, in, it doesn't appear that it would be disciplinary. After all, we've never heard even a whisper of MJ being someone who has disrupted the group or anything like that. 

 

[Reesh]

He also has history of being disruptive at previous clubs but I'd have him playing.

 

And I don't overuse it, it is apt in most cases, you ****.

[KrolMong]

If we are going to play wing backs, he’s probably our best option on the left side. Delgado is right footed and could move to the right.

I’d arguably say that he’s probably decent enough to play as an orthodox left back too.

[Tylluan]

Star reporting Xisco saying a deadline day loan move to Derby broke down. 

If he's not in the 25 then there are still options open to him. National League doesn't have a window so he could go on loan or permanent. The Aussie A League doesn't start till mid October and there's plenty of money in the Indian Super League if he fancies one last payday 

[Tank_Owl2,0]

I don’t think he’s ever shown himself to be a great left back but left wing back is something he could do in this league and if the head coach is going to use 352 then I’d have him at least on the bench, but probably playing.

Delgado would be better on the right as he has shown. As has been said several times on here square pegs on square holes otherwise the team’s balance is compromised. Having said that I’d probably have Pato on the right in either a 352 or 442, partly because of his work rate but also I think he provides a good goal threat.

[HoylandOwl]

19 minutes ago, Tank_Owl2,0 said:

I don’t think he’s ever shown himself to be a great left back but left wing back is something he could do in this league and if the head coach is going to use 352 then I’d have him at least on the bench, but probably playing.

Delgado would be better on the right as he has shown. As has been said several times on here square pegs on square holes otherwise the team’s balance is compromised. Having said that I’d probably have Pato on the right in either a 352 or 442, partly because of his work rate but also I think he provides a good goal threat.

Re Delgado, it seems Xisco does like a player in attacking positions as being one playing on his 'opposite side'. 

[Raynaldo]

Looked like he was at training from pics on the official site

 

[Tank_Owl2,0]

9 hours ago, HoylandOwl said:

Re Delgado, it seems Xisco does like a player in attacking positions as being one playing on his 'opposite side'. 

True. Worked for a certain Mr Waddle, but he was a magician.

[HoylandOwl]

1 minute ago, Tank_Owl2,0 said:

True. Worked for a certain Mr Waddle, but he was a magician.

Magician, wizard, God. The lot. 

[Tank_Owl2,0]

There’s a thread on stalk with the supposed squad, which has 24 players listed. I’ve not seen anything on the club website.

No Johnson or Momo.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Tank_Owl2,0

[Otto_Man]

13 hours ago, Raynaldo said:

Looked like he was at training from pics on the official site

 

Why wouldn't he be? Think waaaay too much has been made of this. He was offered a contract based on the opinions of the previous manager, a new manager has come in and doesn't fancy him, happens everywhere, just ask Hugo Lloris

[HoylandOwl]

So, there's a lot of talk online about the way he's been dealt with is 'ludicrous' like this headline. 

He played in pre season, didn't look like he fit the system (but admittedly he wasn't the only one, as we didn't know what it was trying to be at that VERY early stage)... But we don't know if something has been said/happened. It may well have not either, and MJ has never appeared to be a problem in the squad, let's be honest I like MJ, he's been a decent squad player, created plenty for us and has played wherever he was asked to.

However, football is ridiculously ruthless as an industry sometimes. I've said it before, there's no room for sentimentality whether it's right or not is another thing... So Maybe Xisco just doesn't see him fitting into the team and it's that simple? Does there have to be something else? Be honest if we were ripping it up in the league there wouldn't be a question even raised. 

It isn't a good look, on the face of things, him being in the squad every game then out and unused at all and I do think he could offer something to us. But I am not the manager, and we've seen it before he won't be the last player we see removed out of the match day squad at the seeming drop of a hat.. Managers/head coaches are paid to make decisions for the team, not to placate fans. 

 

 

 

[HoylandOwl]

7 hours ago, Otto_Man said:

Why wouldn't he be? Think waaaay too much has been made of this. He was offered a contract based on the opinions of the previous manager, a new manager has come in and doesn't fancy him, happens everywhere, just ask Hugo Lloris

See. Otto said it too.

[KrolMong]

2 hours ago, HoylandOwl said:

See. Otto said it too.

I am still surprised considering our left side problems. But, if Munoz is only playing a back five currently due to other issues and will revert to something different, then MJ (and Reece James) may struggle to play. Especially as it is pretty clear he wants his full backs to stay at home.

 

[Otto_Man]

Is anyone actually that shocked/surprised about MJ? Don't get me wrong on his day he's a great crosser of the ball, but he was hardly the first name on the team sheet last season, particularly second half.

I wouldn't have been too disappointed if we'd not offered him anything in the summer, same with RJ to be honest, decent pro's, but thought we could do better.

Edited September 8, 2023 by Otto_Man

[Andyben]

Just being used as another stick to attack the club with 

[HoylandOwl]

34 minutes ago, Andyben said:

Just being used as another stick to attack the club with 

It's more this for me...

And this 👇🏻

42 minutes ago, Otto_Man said:

Is anyone actually that shocked/surprised about MJ? Don't get me wrong on his day he's a great crosser of the ball, but he was hardly the first name on the team sheet last season, particularly second half.

I wouldn't have been too disappointed if we'd not offered him anything in the summer, same with RJ to be honest, decent pro's, but thought we could do better.

 

[HoylandOwl]

Xisco was asked AGAIN about Neymarv today, in the pre match stuff for the game this weekend....

He was asked if he was training on his own.

"I have 24 players and everybody is training in our squad. In training we have different groups and manage different situations with him. Sometimes we are working with up to seven, eight groups. Who pays him? Our club. For sure he is training with our squad and is using our fitness coach and uses the same facilities. We follow everything in the rules about him. The most important thing is he is here and he is part of our club." 

[HoylandOwl]

PFA now getting involved?

[Otto_Man]

Take it they're also speaking to Man Yoo about Sancho? Thought not....

[Supercockle]

6 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said:

PFA now getting involved?

Looks more like The Stir getting involved to me. 

[EBRA]

Westwood / Mcgugan / Hutchinson (x2) .. probably others I can’t recall.

A long history of this at clubs and with players. 

I think the local journalist are more informed due to information coming from Derby - and their management team which they know very very well! 

They were never this active other the other situations! 

Deals brake down for many reasons and I’ve seen the tweets about wages and loan fees banded about. 

[HoylandOwl]

There's been lots of tweets about wages, and loan fees. Of which, we don't have a clue if they're true or not. 

As you say EBRA, there's loads of reasons behind things breaking down. But people 'have to' seem to know everything these days, and I'm sure that fuels the press to write 'we understand that' on many more occasions than previously.

[Reesh]

41 minutes ago, EBRA said:

Westwood / Mcgugan / Hutchinson (x2) .. probably others I can’t recall.

A long history of this at clubs and with players. 

I think the local journalist are more informed due to information coming from Derby - and their management team which they know very very well! 

They were never this active other the other situations! 

Deals brake down for many reasons and I’ve seen the tweets about wages and loan fees banded about. 

Gonna have to pull you up on that!

 

PS the likes of Miller and Crann really are odious lazy wanksocks

[Hirstys 12th Pint]

3 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said:

There's been lots of tweets about wages, and loan fees. Of which, we don't have a clue if they're true or not. 

As you say EBRA, there's loads of reasons behind things breaking down. But people 'have to' seem to know everything these days, and I'm sure that fuels the press to write 'we understand that' on many more occasions than previously.

This mantra is really f**king me off about football these days and especially in the world of Wednesday.

Also when did Marvin become the reincarnation of Chris Waddle ?  He's a journeyman footballer who has managed to put in a few good crosses in the third tier of English Footballer over a couple of seasons, along with a number very average performances.   

[HoylandOwl]

3 minutes ago, Hirstys 12th Pint said:

This mantra is really f**king me off about football these days and especially in the world of Wednesday.

Also when did Marvin become the reincarnation of Chris Waddle ?  He's a journeyman footballer who has managed to put in a few good crosses in the third tier of English Footballer over a couple of seasons, along with a number very average performances.   

It's the usual thing with us. Players not in the side become prime Eusebio/Pele/Maradona when not involved. It's been happening for years, with Jordan Rhodes being the epitome of it. 

[Andyben]

Perhaps thats why Dowling's contract hasn't been extended

[Retro Owl]

Just the latest example of the Star's constant attack on the running of SWFC. 

We should ban all Star journo's from press conferences & stop all interviews / any contact with them.

 

[Hirstys 12th Pint]

According to Marv's Mrs on Twitter Derby were covering most of his wages but deal fell through when we wanted £100K loan fee and a further bonus if they were promoted. 

In my own simple mind surely this is the type of commercial arrangement a lot of loans are agreed under and no doubt ones we have had with other clubs whether it be for Flint, Gibson, Storey, McGuiness etc. 

Joke of a club !!

[Reesh]

10 minutes ago, Hirstys 12th Pint said:

According to Marv's Mrs on Twitter Derby were covering most of his wages but deal fell through when we wanted £100K loan fee and a further bonus if they were promoted. 

In my own simple mind surely this is the type of commercial arrangement a lot of loans are agreed under and no doubt ones we have had with other clubs whether it be for Flint, Gibson, Storey, McGuiness etc. 

Joke of a club !!

Exactly 

[Paul from Wisewood]

1 hour ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

Nothing story. Still think our handling of him has been poor mind 

In fact our general approach to recruitment has been poor. We were recruiting before we had a manager and MJ and RJ are big casualties of that 

We had/have a manager, his names Dejphon chansiri 

[Reesh]

5 minutes ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

What's so funny @Reesh

What should happen now, is mutually agree to terminate the contract and Derby pick him up as a free agent. If as reported they were happy with covering the vast majority/all of his wages it should be really easy to do 

He can't sign for Derby now til January!

[Reesh]

Just now, Neville Facking Bartos said:

Even if we release and he becomes a free agent?

Yep, cos he was registered to us at the end of the window.

[80s Owl]

4 hours ago, HoylandOwl said:

It's the usual thing with us. Players not in the side become prime Eusebio/Pele/Maradona when not involved. It's been happening for years, with Jordan Rhodes being the epitome of it. 

It always amuses me this, it happens so often, occasionally it's a younger player who should be given a start to totally transform our season 😂

[Tylluan]

We could release and he could go National League, or abroad to one of the Leagues that haven't started yet; A League, Indian Super League, or go join Forestieri in the Far East. 

If Derby want him in January then something could be done where he goes to Chezzie on a short term, in order to get some game time in, then signs for Derby in January. 

Hearing from a Derby mate that we were willing to sell him for £250k but Derby wanted a loan so they could pick him for free at the end of the season and that's why we stuck the loan fee in. 

[Reesh]

11 minutes ago, Tylluan said:

We could release and he could go National League, or abroad to one of the Leagues that haven't started yet; A League, Indian Super League, or go join Forestieri in the Far East. 

If Derby want him in January then something could be done where he goes to Chezzie on a short term, in order to get some game time in, then signs for Derby in January. 

Hearing from a Derby mate that we were willing to sell him for £250k but Derby wanted a loan so they could pick him for free at the end of the season and that's why we stuck the loan fee in. 

So Derby being cheating debt welching bastards then

[Supercockle]

12 minutes ago, Reesh said:

So Derby being cheating debt welching bastards then

But it’s Chansiri’s fault for not giving him away. 

[Owling_Wolf]

Poor sod must feel like a pawn.

[Sheffieldblue]

1 minute ago, Owling_Wolf said:

Poor sod must feel like a pawn.

Yep. 5k ish a week for doing nowt. Wish someone would treat me like a pawn

[Hirstys 12th Pint]

32 minutes ago, Supercockle said:

But it’s Chansiri’s fault for not giving him away. 

 

We never sell any player - Chansri Out !

We won't release a player to Derby for free - Chansiri Out !

[Owling_Wolf]

Just now, Sheffieldblue said:

Yep. 5k ish a week for doing nowt. Wish someone would treat me like a pawn

I did think about that but you know what I mean.  Signs a new contract here. Finds himself out of it. Hears he's off to Derby on loan. Hears he's not off to Derby on loan. Ends up in limbo. 

[Owling_Wolf]

19 minutes ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

Are people really suggesting we were in a position to request a fee for him?

The fact he’s still here now the window is shut should give you a clue 

20:20 hindsight?

[Supercockle]

15 minutes ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

Are people really suggesting we were in a position to request a fee for him?

The fact he’s still here now the window is shut should give you a clue 

As we own him, we’re in a position to ask what we want. I don’t think we’d ever get a fee though. Perhaps we just didn’t want to help Derby out and I’m ok with that. Whatever the reason he didn’t leave, I don’t think it’s sinister, or underhand. 

As for Johnson not being in the squad, it’s unfortunate for him. We know he has a great left foot but he wasn’t as good last season as the season before. I anticipated him warming the bench this season but he isn’t. He was always going to be making the numbers up. I’d guess it’s as much about his attitude as his ability or age. Those that have adapted to the new way and knuckled down (such as Paterson) have found themselves in the first team when we would expect them to be on the bench, others such as James and Johnson have found themselves on the fringes. 
 

We’re going through change. I think it’s a positive thing, others don’t. That’s what happens with change. New people come in, others move on. It’s uncomfortable but necessary. 

[Hirstys 12th Pint]

30 minutes ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

Are people really suggesting we were in a position to request a fee for him?

The fact he’s still here now the window is shut should give you a clue 

Lots of loans now have fees attached to them of some form. 

Typically for Wednesday we could not get the deal done.

I do think Marvin has been caught as a 'victim' of circumstance through change of Manager, style and formation.  These things happen.

[Reesh]

5 minutes ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

They do, and others don’t. When you’re paying someone that’s contributing nothing and there aren’t many suitors I’d argue if you ask for a loan fee the deal won’t get done 

You're just focusing on this as yet another stick to beat the club with 

[Owling_Wolf]

14 minutes ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

Not really, been clear as day since the beginning of the season. Move him on and save on wages 

Easy, really.  You should be in charge. 

[Bellsview]

This is the bit from the news article that got my attention.

FIFA clarified its regulations on the “status and transfer of players” (RSTP) in November 2021. Amendments to Article 14 (2) found that asking a player to train on their own may result in a club engaging in “abusive conduct”.

The change is thought to have come about after it was suggested the theory of a player training alone could be at odds with UK employment law.

If any of that is true (and I’m not for one minute suggesting that it is) then I have no issue whatsoever with the PFA getting involved and investigating. Whatever anyone’s thoughts are on the situation, the club is not above the law!

I’d like to know who contacted them though.

[Chelters]

I genuinely don’t get the fuss about this (well I suppose I do, it’s another stick to beat Chansiri with). Manager doesn’t fancy a player who is over 30 and didn’t always shine in League One. Club perhaps tried to hold out for more but bluff was called, gamble didn’t come off. So what. 

[Reesh]

54 minutes ago, Bellsview said:

This is the bit from the news article that got my attention.

FIFA clarified its regulations on the “status and transfer of players” (RSTP) in November 2021. Amendments to Article 14 (2) found that asking a player to train on their own may result in a club engaging in “abusive conduct”.

The change is thought to have come about after it was suggested the theory of a player training alone could be at odds with UK employment law.

If any of that is true (and I’m not for one minute suggesting that it is) then I have no issue whatsoever with the PFA getting involved and investigating. Whatever anyone’s thoughts are on the situation, the club is not above the law!

I’d like to know who contacted them though.

Bet it was some **** off Owlstalk.

[Tylluan]

Honestly asking in case I've missed something but has the club started making Johnson train on his own? 

Yorkshire Live website says it 'understands' Johnson is training alone but Xisco says he's with the squad, using the same fitness coaches, and using the same facilities as everyone else. 

The PFA standpoint is that a player should have access to same standard of training resources if he's not in the squad. 

The other option is that Johnson is actively training on his own, or his agent has suggested it, so it makes the club look bad. George Hirst did the same under orders from his agent. Refused to train with the 21s. If that's so then FIFA article 14 won't count as long as the club isn't denying him access.