A New Group of Attention Seekers

[Reesh]

23 minutes ago, bazapeps said:

is there anything incorrect?

Yeah, believing I give a fuck what you post. You're picking snippets out to suit your argument. Go back to your adoring public on OT.

[bazapeps]

7 minutes ago, Tewksbury said:

Do the phases really matter though?

Literally everyone I know was ready and waiting by December to get their tickets, so the vast majority if earlybird purchasers will still be in phase one. Plus the options of V12 and PayPal 4 months interest free, there's no real reason to buy in any other phase.

This has been going for over a decade, if you're still surprised by it, you have bigger things to worry about than season tickets.

The only potential buyers I can see who missed out are the ones who fell for the campaign to not buy them and starve Chansiri’s funding.

As for Kop being the only comparable cheap option, when talking about pricing people out, only the lower band matters. I want to sit with Big Chans in the comfy seats, but I can't afford it so I make do and sit with my own family.

Re phases; if I was renewing then i'd absolutely do it within phase one and so I wouldn't be impacted by the increased phases personally. I do really hate the phases though and the size of increases and shortness of them. It's like the longer you take the more you are being punished. Given phase one tickets are still amoungst the highest in the league I don't agree with any increases. Just set the prices there and be done with it. There will be some (after the deadline of phase one) whose circumstances change or preferences change to where they'd be tempted to buy a season ticket, potential first time season ticket holders. If that happens during phase 3 or during the summer i've absolutely no doubt that they'd be put off by the eye watering prices. The way DC does it with phases etc, aren't a shock any more but I simply don't agree with it. 

Re comparable pricing I can't agree with your logic that only the lowest band matters. I fact that argument odd tbh but we'll just agree to disagree on that aspect. 

[bazapeps]

5 minutes ago, Reesh said:

Yeah, believing I give a fuck what you post. You're picking snippets out to suit your argument. Go back to your adoring public on OT.

I certainly don't think you care what I post based on your tone and past responses. My initial response wasn't even to you. 

 

I haven't posted snippets; i've simply expanded on a comment by someone else and responded to them with the full details, as for some reason they had left those out. That being our comparison to swansea city season tickets. Ironically, the fact that the individual didn't give the full picture probably suggests that they are the one picking out snippets to suit an argument.

[Reesh]

4 minutes ago, bazapeps said:

I certainly don't think you care what I post based on your tone and past responses. My initial response wasn't even to you. 

 

I haven't posted snippets; i've simply expanded on a comment by someone else and responded to them with the full details, as for some reason they had left those out. That being our comparison to swansea city season tickets. Ironically, the fact that the individual didn't give the full picture probably suggests that they are the one picking out snippets to suit an argument.

Off you fuck then. Don't the let the door hit you on the arse on the way.

The 1867 group are fucking scum, the same set of ***** would have us go bust.

Edited March 13 by Reesh

[Andyben]

1 hour ago, bazapeps said:

As you raised Swansea i'll respond. Their 'early bird' lasts right until the start of April. It's £459 across the board from what I can see and their south stand tickets are £397 if you are with a child. Our phase one were open for 7 days at £460 on the kop, through to £630 on the south stand. We've already finished phase 3 which was at £510 for the kop, £640 north and £720 south. God knows what the prices will be again when they go back on sale. 

My own view is that the phase one prices was just about ok, whilst still on the expensive side, especially comparing against our competitors in this division for this season at least. Subsequent increases I cannot fathom the logic for and I strongly disagree with. 

Buy a ticket then? 

[Otto_Man]

1 hour ago, bazapeps said:

As you raised Swansea i'll respond. Their 'early bird' lasts right until the start of April. It's £459 across the board from what I can see and their south stand tickets are £397 if you are with a child. Our phase one were open for 7 days at £460 on the kop, through to £630 on the south stand. We've already finished phase 3 which was at £510 for the kop, £640 north and £720 south. God knows what the prices will be again when they go back on sale. 

My own view is that the phase one prices was just about ok, whilst still on the expensive side, especially comparing against our competitors in this division for this season at least. Subsequent increases I cannot fathom the logic for and I strongly disagree with. 

Think you might need to go to Specsavers fella

[Otto_Man]

It's also interesting that you completely ignored this bit:

following extensive research and benchmarking - we are pleased to offer pricing options which fall below the average across the Championship for the 2022-23 season; meaning Swansea City continues to offer among the most affordable season tickets in the division.

Which suggests our phase 1 early bird price of £460 for a season ticket on the kop must also be amongst "the most affordable in the division". Unless of course absolutely every single other club in the Championship is offering a phase 1 early bird season ticket for less than £460 - which seems somewhat unlikely...

Edited March 13 by Otto_Man

[Tewksbury]

2 hours ago, bazapeps said:

Re phases; if I was renewing then i'd absolutely do it within phase one and so I wouldn't be impacted by the increased phases personally. I do really hate the phases though and the size of increases and shortness of them. It's like the longer you take the more you are being punished. Given phase one tickets are still amoungst the highest in the league I don't agree with any increases. Just set the prices there and be done with it. There will be some (after the deadline of phase one) whose circumstances change or preferences change to where they'd be tempted to buy a season ticket, potential first time season ticket holders. If that happens during phase 3 or during the summer i've absolutely no doubt that they'd be put off by the eye watering prices. The way DC does it with phases etc, aren't a shock any more but I simply don't agree with it. 

Re comparable pricing I can't agree with your logic that only the lowest band matters. I fact that argument odd tbh but we'll just agree to disagree on that aspect. 

The idea of the earlybird is to make it cheaper to those who are going whatever happens.

If you're going to wait till the end of the season, or longer to get a better idea of the outcome of the season, yes, you're going to pay a premium.

The fact is, if tickets were all at phase one, which the majority already are, then that's most of the club's income stream gone or they'd have to be priced higher.

Sitting on another stand is choice, not necessity, so the lowest price absolutely is the benchmark when you're campaigning on people being priced out. I can't afford to sit in the boxes, doesn't mean I'm priced out.

PotG prices is another one. It worked out cheaper last season for me with an earlybird even if you only go to 10-11 games. If you're going to less than that, then it goes from being a regular thing to occasional and again commands a premium, as all occasional entertainment does these days.

[Andyben]

What's galling is if, for example, I come to DC with the cash to buy us the numpties would try and take credit - even if I've been in discussions for two years 

[Andyben]

...I'd probably leave "Chansiri" on the seats in th North just to piss off the Nevs

[Andyben]

*probably...as in 100% definitely and no stripes, red numbers, new badge and 20ft elephants outside the south stand entrance 

[Chelters]

Due to my location I just have to pay game by game when I can go but I buy a membership as well. I don’t find the costs excessive to be honest but they are overall a bit on the high side so I think there is a valid criticism, albeit not as big an issue as it is sometimes made out.

But to then criticise the club making losses whilst saying ticket prices are too high is quite frankly bonkers.

Goes back to what I keep saying about just having a big list of gripes with no focus. 

[Otto_Man]

Norwich...

[Reesh]

4 minutes ago, Chelters said:

Due to my location I just have to pay game by game when I can go but I buy a membership as well. I don’t find the costs excessive to be honest but they are overall a bit on the high side so I think there is a valid criticism, albeit not as big an issue as it is sometimes made out.

But to then criticise the club making losses whilst saying ticket prices are too high is quite frankly bonkers.

Goes back to what I keep saying about just having a big list of gripes with no focus. 

Swansea is double discount for members pal

 

£17 on the Kop

[Chelters]

6 minutes ago, Reesh said:

Swansea is double discount for members pal

 

£17 on the Kop

Good news as I will going up for that one 

[Tewksbury]

6 minutes ago, Chelters said:

Due to my location I just have to pay game by game when I can go but I buy a membership as well. I don’t find the costs excessive to be honest but they are overall a bit on the high side so I think there is a valid criticism, albeit not as big an issue as it is sometimes made out.

But to then criticise the club making losses whilst saying ticket prices are too high is quite frankly bonkers.

Goes back to what I keep saying about just having a big list of gripes with no focus. 

The membership is too high.

With it you need about 10 games to see a benefit, by then you're in earlybird territory.

[Chelters]

5 minutes ago, Tewksbury said:

The membership is too high.

With it you need about 10 games to see a benefit, by then you're in earlybird territory.

Yeah you’re probably right, I just jeep renewing it every year without really thinking about it  

All helps reduce those losses though!

[Andyben]

33 minutes ago, Andyben said:

*probably...as in 100% definitely and no stripes, red numbers, new badge and 20ft elephants outside the south stand entrance 

And they can whistle for the 10% shares they want / expect @Jake

[Reesh]

3 minutes ago, Andyben said:

And they can whistle for the 10% shares they want / expect @Jake

So despite not being official or under any supporters group framework/supervision then want a percentage of the shareholding from any new owner.... wow.

[Tewksbury]

40 minutes ago, Andyben said:

*probably...as in 100% definitely and no stripes, red numbers, new badge and 20ft elephants outside the south stand entrance 

The same people kicking off about all that would take full Redbull rebranding in a second.

[Andyben]

4 minutes ago, Reesh said:

So despite not being official or under any supporters group framework/supervision then want a percentage of the shareholding from any new owner.... wow.

No idea but ask @Jake

[Tylluan]

Buying a season ticket is like buying a train ticket. You know you're going to go so you buy as quickly as possible to get the best price. 

 

[KrolMong]

@Jake and @bazapeps

I do have some questions about the 1867 groups overall plan?

1. Is your goal JUST to force the owner to sell the club? Or do have aspirations beyond the sale? What are those aspirations?

2. If you were to bring a potential buyer to the table, what would your conditions with that buyer be?

3. If the current owner secures a buyer, are you wanting formal engagement with any new owner? If so, how does that engagement work?

4. Would you potentially want a minor shareholding, or would you seek it from any owner if they were willing to engage?

5. What if a new owner comes to the table that you don’t agree with? 

6. Would you want to put a member of the 1867 group at board level in the club? If so, how is that going to be determined?

Edited March 13 by KrolMong

[Tylluan]

Seeing as a lot of 1867's season ticket price gripe is that we might be playing in League 1 next season, Barnsley released their early bird prices today. 

They're fucking eye watering. £509 for their East Upper. 

[Tylluan]

And just in case the comeback is that they may be playing Championship football next season. 

Liam Dooley was pleased to announce that Shrewsbury's prices were frozen at 23/24 prices.  

[Tylluan]

Charlton are even worse. If you're not in the family stand you're paying between £425-£625 and that's just in phase 1. 

[bazapeps]

4 hours ago, Otto_Man said:

Think you might need to go to Specsavers fella

So Swansea’s are actually lower than I thought? Or am I missing something?

[bazapeps]

4 hours ago, Otto_Man said:

It's also interesting that you completely ignored this bit:

following extensive research and benchmarking - we are pleased to offer pricing options which fall below the average across the Championship for the 2022-23 season; meaning Swansea City continues to offer among the most affordable season tickets in the division.

Which suggests our phase 1 early bird price of £460 for a season ticket on the kop must also be amongst "the most affordable in the division". Unless of course absolutely every single other club in the Championship is offering a phase 1 early bird season ticket for less than £460 - which seems somewhat unlikely...

Do you have a record of those prices from then? And how ours compared to others last season?

[Reesh]

2 minutes ago, bazapeps said:

So Swansea’s are actually lower than I thought? Or am I missing something?

I've just gone on the site to see what it is. If you take an u12 with you you get the south stand rate otherwise it is £459.

[Tylluan]

1 hour ago, KrolMong said:

Is your goal JUST to force the owner to sell the club? Or do have aspirations beyond the sale? What are those aspirations?

We just want Chansiri to leave the club, preferably debt free but leave all the same. 

Oh and Nigel Farage to be the next Prime Minister. 

1 hour ago, KrolMong said:

If you were to bring a potential buyer to the table, what would your conditions with that buyer be?

That Lee Stafford is made chairman, so his Hillsborough 2010 upgrade can finally happen, and Jim Wiltshire takes the COO role. No point in getting that online degree if he can't use it.

 

1 hour ago, KrolMong said:

If the current owner secures a buyer, are you wanting formal engagement with any new owner

Yes. We need to tell them how to spend their billions, from upgrading the toilets to buying Bellingham, while we advocate 20s plenty. 

 

1 hour ago, KrolMong said:

What if a new owner comes to the table that you don’t agree with? 

Then we start this all over again, obviously, til Adam can borrow the money from his Mrs to buy the club

 

1 hour ago, KrolMong said:

Would you want to put a member of the 1867 group at board level in the club? If so, how is that going to be determined?

One man Wembley, Hillsborough park. 

Edited March 13 by Tylluan

[Otto_Man]

4 minutes ago, bazapeps said:

Do you have a record of those prices from then? And how ours compared to others last season?

I don't, but if it's indeed £459 as you say and Swansea say they have undertaken a benchmarking exercise which shows that is below the average for last season in the championship, then logically our price must also be below average? Unless you think Swansea are falsely advertising?

3 minutes ago, Reesh said:

I've just gone on the site to see what it is. If you take an u12 with you you get the south stand rate otherwise it is £459.

I presumed it was £411?!

[Chelters]

Baza you’re kind of missing the key point here, which is the same as the debate around credit cards.

You are the ones making public statements, those arguing against you on here are not. So whether or not Swansea have higher prices in phase one but not phase two, or whatever, it doesn’t really matter. The point is that the burden of proof is on you guys to back up your arguments, and there seems to be sufficient doubt to suggest that our prices might not be quite as ridiculous as made out.

By all means debate on a forum like this but, if you’re not sure, don’t quote it as fact to those who might be more suggestible to further the aims that are not necessarily shared by everyone else.  That’s the point. 

[Andyben]

The issue they I.e. @bazapeps @Jakeface is that unlike the  echo chamber of OT and Twitter, posters on here are more likely to question their FACTS and provide alternative positions with generally more accurate information to support rhm.

Look a few pages back and when Jake had answered a simple question put to him, then the response was challenged with evidence he simply stopped responding.

But it's a massive step up from the likes of the cabbage patch kid who literally had zero and I mean zero ability to respond or back anything up, which is why he got more direct and agricultural responses 

[bazapeps]

6 minutes ago, Chelters said:

Baza you’re kind of missing the key point here, which is the same as the debate around credit cards.

You are the ones making public statements, those arguing against you on here are not. So whether or not Swansea have higher prices in phase one but not phase two, or whatever, it doesn’t really matter. The point is that the burden of proof is on you guys to back up your arguments, and there seems to be sufficient doubt to suggest that our prices might not be quite as ridiculous as made out.

By all means debate on a forum like this but, if you’re not sure, don’t quote it as fact to those who might be more suggestible to further the aims that are not necessarily shared by everyone else.  That’s the point. 

Apologies there’s been loads of responses so difficult to address all.

re the debit card issue I think that’s been shown: can’t outside of PayPal and not addressed by the club.

re ticket prices I spent ages last summer comparing to others; particularly re cheapest v cheapest (I haven’t got the document now but which I suspect some will say suits an agenda etc) but it was covered to death last season. 
 

we’ll see the comparisons again this summer when all teams release prices. But given our increases again I’d expect us to be amongst the top championship prices.

my own opinion was the worst thing re prices last year was the prices post initial phase and especially prices over the summer which were just appalling 

[bazapeps]

4 minutes ago, Andyben said:

The issue they I.e. @bazapeps @Jakeface is that unlike the  echo chamber of OT and Twitter, posters on here are more likely to question their FACTS and provide alternative positions with generally more accurate information to support rhm.

Look a few pages back and when Jake had answered a simple question put to him, then the response was challenged with evidence he simply stopped responding.

But it's a massive step up from the likes of the cabbage patch kid who literally had zero and I mean zero ability to respond or back anything up, which is why he got more direct and agricultural responses 

What was the simple question out of interest? It can be tough keeping up 

[HoylandOwl]

1 minute ago, bazapeps said:

Apologies there’s been loads of responses so difficult to address all.

re the debit card issue I think that’s been shown: can’t outside of PayPal and not addressed by the club.

re ticket prices I spent ages last summer comparing to others; particularly re cheapest v cheapest (I haven’t got the document now but which I suspect some will say suits an agenda etc) but it was covered to death last season. 
 

we’ll see the comparisons again this summer when all teams release prices. But given our increases again I’d expect us to be amongst the top championship prices.

my own opinion was the worst thing re prices last year was the prices post initial phase and especially prices over the summer which were just appalling 

I can understand why people get annoyed at the prices, post the first phase. But I think that hasn't it been proven that a very large majority buy in the first phase anyway? 

FWIW I do think the first phase was way too short, regardless of the thought that 'people know it's coming' so should save for it etc. The communication around the ticket sales just dropping with next to no notice, isn't a disaster but for me it just leaves a sour taste. Communication can and does alleviate many issues, and while I do think that the club has done a lot of good around the team side of things when it comes to comms, I think the marketing side of things AT TIMES but NOT ALL THE TIME leaves a lot to be desired. 

[Andyben]

19 minutes ago, bazapeps said:

What was the simple question out of interest? It can be tough keeping up 

Take your pick pal.

Its back when I asked about the BS on the  pamphlet 

[Chelters]

23 minutes ago, bazapeps said:

Apologies there’s been loads of responses so difficult to address all.

re the debit card issue I think that’s been shown: can’t outside of PayPal and not addressed by the club.

re ticket prices I spent ages last summer comparing to others; particularly re cheapest v cheapest (I haven’t got the document now but which I suspect some will say suits an agenda etc) but it was covered to death last season. 
 

we’ll see the comparisons again this summer when all teams release prices. But given our increases again I’d expect us to be amongst the top championship prices.

my own opinion was the worst thing re prices last year was the prices post initial phase and especially prices over the summer which were just appalling 

I think we’ve introduced enough doubt on here to suggest that the debit/credit card issue is not clear cut and difficult for the club to communicate potentially.

FWIW i do think there is a valid criticism in the ticket prices. 

But my point remains, if you’re going to stick your head above the parapet you have to be ready to be shot at. And that means being thorough, prepared and basically bulletproof.

The ‘pro-Chansiri’ side (which is actually better described as ‘anti-protests’) are not the ones making claims and handing out flyers, they don’t have to justify their position the same way you do. That’s just the way these things are.

[Chelters]

And another thing…(sorry)

Sometimes it’s OK to just say “you know what that”s a good point” or ‘let’s just agree to disagree’. That increases credibility rather than decreasing it.

You and Jake have to a certain extent on here so fair play but the discourse elsewhere certainly doesn’t. 

[Otto_Man]

40 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said:

I can understand why people get annoyed at the prices, post the first phase. But I think that hasn't it been proven that a very large majority buy in the first phase anyway? 

FWIW I do think the first phase was way too short, regardless of the thought that 'people know it's coming' so should save for it etc. The communication around the ticket sales just dropping with next to no notice, isn't a disaster but for me it just leaves a sour taste. Communication can and does alleviate many issues, and while I do think that the club has done a lot of good around the team side of things when it comes to comms, I think the marketing side of things AT TIMES but NOT ALL THE TIME leaves a lot to be desired. 

I don't think anyone reasonable disagrees with any of that H, but season tickets last season only got really expensive if you'd waited until we were in the Championship to buy one... who'd have thought it.

Let's be honest there's two real issues here;

1. The ticket price complaint is more about "on the day" pricing than season tickets.

To be fair the chairman has been abundantly clear from his first ever message about ticket prices that the best value would always be in buying a season ticket. And as Ty brilliantly pointed out earlier, just like train tickets, the earlier you buy, the more you save.

2. People on here aren't a bunch of sycophants who believe everything they're told without question.

Even now in the face of irrefutable logic/arguments you're met with "I did loads of research, but I've lost it all and it's been debated to death anyway" whilst not acknowledging it's not been debated on here at all. It doesn't appear even 1 person has had their opinion changed by anything either poster has written on here so far. Given any fan site must be a representative cross section of the views of the fan base and as a collective we often disagree on most things, it seems strange that no-one has agreed. Unless we're actually collectively correct...

Edited March 13 by Otto_Man

[Tewksbury]

My biggest question @bazapeps is about integrity.

On your first statement, it said that protests would be held if Chansiri didn't speak to buyers.

i asked if this had been communicated to the club in the first Q&A on X, it hadn't and the protest went ahead anyway. How are your demands going to be met when he doesn't even know them? You can't say I'll do X if you don't do Y without giving them a chance to respond.

Then, by your own admission, Chansiri has met with investors, therefore fulfilling your demands.

Immediately, the group wanted in and to be a part of this discussion, as this wasn't seen as enough. Why? He's done what you demanded in your initial statement.

So why does the group still exist?

It's achieved it's aims. Job well done.

This is where the integrity bit comes in.

You've now moved the goalposts and are, with the points on the flyers just throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks with regards to complaints against him as nothing will satisfy you.

So, why would Chansiri ever engage with you. You've operated in bad faith from the start, moved the goalposts and escalated regardless of anything Chansiri has done. You have no integrity.

Anything he concedes will just be met by more demands, so why concede anything at all?

[Billysboy]

27 minutes ago, Tewksbury said:

My biggest question @bazapeps is about integrity.

On your first statement, it said that protests would be held if Chansiri didn't speak to buyers.

i asked if this had been communicated to the club in the first Q&A on X, it hadn't and the protest went ahead anyway. How are your demands going to be met when he doesn't even know them? You can't say I'll do X if you don't do Y without giving them a chance to respond.

Then, by your own admission, Chansiri has met with investors, therefore fulfilling your demands.

Immediately, the group wanted in and to be a part of this discussion, as this wasn't seen as enough. Why? He's done what you demanded in your initial statement.

So why does the group still exist?

It's achieved it's aims. Job well done.

This is where the integrity bit comes in.

You've now moved the goalposts and are, with the points on the flyers just throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks with regards to complaints against him as nothing will satisfy you.

So, why would Chansiri ever engage with you. You've operated in bad faith from the start, moved the goalposts and escalated regardless of anything Chansiri has done. You have no integrity.

Anything he concedes will just be met by more demands, so why concede anything at all?

Think they've tried to put their points across well, but they're used to posting on such an insular forum that their not used to a more intelligent opposition. 

[Jake]

11 hours ago, Andyben said:

And they can whistle for the 10% shares they want / expect @Jake

I enjoyed the debate previously but I don’t really understand why you’ve made that bit up 👆🏻

For the record, the group have absolutely zero interest in a share holding, nor has it ever been mentioned. 
 

It would be favourable (in my opinion) if a representative, established supporter group did have influence, and could assist in communication with the club, but that certainly wouldn’t be us. 
 

Reading on Andy, I apologise if you feel “I ran off”. I didn’t, I spent the best part of the day on the forum being polite and respectful but I can’t dedicate my little free time solely to Owlsonline. 
 

As previously stated the group have an email address which can be used. I’m only one man with a family and a job and let’s face it, I’m hardly welcome here. 

[Andyben]

2 hours ago, Jake said:

I enjoyed the debate previously but I don’t really understand why you’ve made that bit up 👆🏻

Are you sure about this?

Is this your personal view or that of the group because there's strong suggestion that this was in the table from Adam Shaw...

2 hours ago, Jake said:

I apologise if you feel “I ran off”. I didn’t, I spent the best part of the day on the forum being polite and respectful but I can’t dedicate my little free time solely to Owlsonline.

You were posting for a good 6-8 hrs after I responded with further information and didn't reply or provide any counter argument.

[Andyben]

8 hours ago, Tewksbury said:

On your first statement, it said that protests would be held if Chansiri didn't speak to buyers.

DC was in talks with potential buyers for two years before the group existed.

As KM said repeatedly DC has a very simple mantra.

Make an offer, show me the plan/cash and I'll open the books.

This is what flushed Shaw out as a waste of time and seemingly instigated the increased activities of the group, contrary to its original demand, as @Tewksburydays above.

[Winco]

“You can’t buy owt, wi nowt”

fucking living near Barnsley is getting to me😀

[mkowl]

1 minute ago, Winco said:

“You can’t buy owt, wi nowt”

fucking living near Barnsley is getting to me😀

It's Harley a good place to start from 

[nickswfc]

9 hours ago, Chelters said:

I think we’ve introduced enough doubt on here to suggest that the debit/credit card issue is not clear cut and difficult for the club to communicate potentially.

FWIW i do think there is a valid criticism in the ticket prices. 

But my point remains, if you’re going to stick your head above the parapet you have to be ready to be shot at. And that means being thorough, prepared and basically bulletproof.

The ‘pro-Chansiri’ side (which is actually better described as ‘anti-protests’) are not the ones making claims and handing out flyers, they don’t have to justify their position the same way you do. That’s just the way these things are.

 

Think this is fair

As I said earlier in the thread, my experience and that of up to 10,000 others was...

"oh season tickets are back on sale"

logs on

buys season ticket with card (via PayPal)

gets on with rest of day 

Most of those people couldn't give two fucks about using PayPal or future phases.

[Jake]

48 minutes ago, Andyben said:

Are you sure about this?

Is this your personal view or that of the group because there's strong suggestion that this was in the table from Adam Shaw...

You were posting for a good 6-8 hrs after I responded with further information and didn't reply or provide any counter argument.

I can categorically state shares have never been mentioned. I wouldn’t like to accuse you of misinformation, but welcome you to substantiate your claim. 
 

I provided plenty of counter argument so much so, that you moved the argument onto my opinion on Nico Shultz, which has zero to do with the the Chansiri debate whatsoever. 
 

Politely giving notice that I’m now off to work before my none-posting from here on in is highlighted. 

[Tylluan]

1 hour ago, Jake said:

would be favourable (in my opinion) if a representative, established supporter group did have influence, and could assist in communication with the club, but that certainly wouldn’t be us. 

It'll never happen with the splinter groups within our fanbase. 

When the open fans forums switched to representatives from known supporter groups, in the hope of more constructive dialogue, each group came with it's own agenda. At the end of every meeting they were asked to have their own pre-meetings to come up with a united front but they never did. They were also asked at every meeting to come up with ways to make the matchday experience better but they never did. This is all in the official, signed off, minutes. 

Also noted in the official minutes is how the Trust lost it's place in these forums. Chansiri didn't kick them off. It's was voted on by the other supporter group attendees after reporting irregularities on previous meetings, by the Trust, came to light. 

The Trust's original manifesto has a lot of similarities to 1867s. Badly run club, all the owners fault, too expensive, etc (they also used Birmingham as a comparison) except they set up right and got FSA backing. They also got dialogue with the club except when their demands weren't met they went militant and threw teddies. 

The Trust never got above 700 members and now sits almost dormant. At the zoom meetings I attended anyone with a different point of view was shouted down and drowned out. There's a reason it lies dormant. 

@Jake the original gang of four (or however many) had intentions that mattered to you but you've said yourself you left in the hands of others and it went horribly off the rails. You advocate reasonable and constructive dialogue but post a different point of view in the group's twitter and you're immediately shot down by the 'if you're not with us you're against us' brigade and there's now more of them than there is of the more reasoned community open to debate amongst fans. Gaining traction on certain other forums and Facebook groups has also led to the more rabid and polarised gaining a foothold. You've already had to fend off one attempted hijack and had to regroup and reframe. Could you hold off a coup?

On here you have experienced financial experts, some of whom own their own companies. You have highly qualified people who've held relevant roles within league clubs. You've got those who've been down your path already. You've got respected amateur coaches and members so long in the tooth that their knowledge is respected. But the reason this site works so well is that we listen to each others point of view and are willing to adapt, change, and take in the knowledge when someone is talking about what they're qualified in and do in a daily basis. This site is covered with threads and posts asking for clarification and reasoning and it's provided. What we've seen from you and bazapeps is a 'we'll agree to disagree' point of view when faced with facts that don't fit (season ticket prices being a good example) 

I'll leave you with this. Post some of the our answers to your posts on your twitter and see if you get the same reasoned debate. You say you're only one man with a family and a job, aren't we all, but the movement you've created may soon become uncontrollable, as WTID back in the day. It might be a stretch but does the increase in appalling fan behaviour stem from the rise in profile of 1867? And if you think not then who advocated throwing the tennis balls onto the pitch and stopped a game then took to social media to brag about it?