A New Group of Attention Seekers

[bazapeps]

20 minutes ago, Andyben said:

Ultimately the fans benefit as we can pay more for better players.

Do you agree that  if there was no 1867 that more fans would have renewed earlier in the season?

Should Wednesday have adopted Ipswich's season ticket prices if it guaranteed us promotion?

I also have no idea if more fans would have renewed if there was no 1867. People can make their own decisions and they’ve never criticised anyone for buying tickets. 

[Reesh]

24 minutes ago, holmesfield_owl said:

I've got that forest game in my head when carbone scored his first at Hillsborough, think it was cold then and on sky.

Yeah you have pal.

[Reesh]

11 minutes ago, bazapeps said:

Facts? It’s a debate / discussion, there’s no facts. 
 

to me it would seem fairly obvious that a good ticket campaign and reasonable prices would lead to greater sales and supporter engagement. 
 

clearly you disagree. Which is fine; I personally just don’t understand the logic 

Based on the logic that our fans whilst loyal don't break 20k season tickets even when we were fucking brilliant that's simply it.

 

You and your band of gimps can now crawl back under your rock and leave the support to proper fans.

[Reesh]

10 minutes ago, bazapeps said:

How are fans benefitting here? Summer prices are so absurd that you imagine extremely few buy them. And the club barely sells any more. People are being either ripped off or priced out. And where is the correlation between high prices and signing better players in recent years? Me personally I’d honestly rather reasonable prices and a lower budget if that’s what it’s really come to. 

Absolute fucking joke. Just fuck off and lick your windows elsewhere Harry. You're as welcome as a fart in a lift.

[bazapeps]

35 minutes ago, Reesh said:

Based on the logic that our fans whilst loyal don't break 20k season tickets even when we were fucking brilliant that's simply it.

 

You and your band of gimps can now crawl back under your rock and leave the support to proper fans.

Like has been said above by others; historical attendances are largely irrelevant. Football is totally different 2024. Look at the changes in crowds at Huddersfield, Bristol, Hull etc. 

 

We know a section is priced out. And we know many would attend if it was affordable. I’m not talking cheap tickets, just reasonable prices compared to our competitors. Seems to make logical sense that if that was done we’d sell more. 

[bazapeps]

37 minutes ago, Reesh said:

Absolute fucking joke. Just fuck off and lick your windows elsewhere Harry. You're as welcome as a fart in a lift.

100% rather people be able to afford to go if it means we have a lower wage budget. If it takes the fans being ripped off to get a competitive budget it would seem something must be wrong elsewhere. 

[Reesh]

14 minutes ago, bazapeps said:

Like has been said above by others; historical attendances are largely irrelevant. Football is totally different 2024. Look at the changes in crowds at Huddersfield, Bristol, Hull etc. 

 

We know a section is priced out. And we know many would attend if it was affordable. I’m not talking cheap tickets, just reasonable prices compared to our competitors. Seems to make logical sense that if that was done we’d sell more. 

Do you have proof people are priced out? And let's be honest who cares about Hull, Bristol City or fucking Huddersfield, we are talking about Wednesday.

So you'd rather stagnate in this division with a lower budget whilst around us clubs take the floating support by being in the Premier league?

Jesus wept.

[Andyben]

3 minutes ago, Reesh said:

Do you have proof people are priced out? And let's be honest who cares about Hull, Bristol City or fucking Huddersfield, we are talking about Wednesday.

So you'd rather stagnate in this division with a lower budget whilst around us clubs take the floating support by being in the Premier league?

Jesus wept.

Yet criticises DC for the club stagnating and not pushing on from 2017?

Has no idea if early buyers were put off new STs but confident nobody buys them in summer and he could get another 8k of sales?

Cheers  but there's no point speaking with these dummies.

[bazapeps]

17 minutes ago, Reesh said:

Do you have proof people are priced out? And let's be honest who cares about Hull, Bristol City or fucking Huddersfield, we are talking about Wednesday.

So you'd rather stagnate in this division with a lower budget whilst around us clubs take the floating support by being in the Premier league?

Jesus wept.

You may not care about those clubs, or other clubs. Just examples though that fan bases and attendances can increase. 
 

Clubs around us do compete, whilst having fairer prices. Surely the question is why are our prices so much higher than our competitors. And why, especially over summer months do we employ pricing tactics where it literally seems like we’re purposely trying to avoid selling them. 
 

re proof of priced out - it’s common place discussion, unless you’re saying people are lying. Just comparing ticket prices versus average income is surely a pretty good gage too.

not who standing affordability you’ve also got a section, who can afford it but will refuse to now because of prices and the principle of it 

 

[Billysboy]

34 minutes ago, bazapeps said:

100% rather people be able to afford to go if it means we have a lower wage budget. If it takes the fans being ripped off to get a competitive budget it would seem something must be wrong elsewhere. 

So you flog season tickets for say 250-300 quid, and by your logic sell say 6000 more but this makes the budget far less, how long before fucking 1867 are gobbling off the club lacks ambition.

[Tewksbury]

Just now, bazapeps said:

You may not care about those clubs, or other clubs. Just examples though that fan bases and attendances can increase. 
 

Clubs around us do compete, whilst having fairer prices. Surely the question is why are our prices so much higher than our competitors. And why, especially over summer months do we employ pricing tactics where it literally seems like we’re purposely trying to avoid selling them. 
 

re proof of priced out - it’s common place discussion, unless you’re saying people are lying. Just comparing ticket prices versus average income is surely a pretty good gage too.

not who standing affordability you’ve also got a section, who can afford it but will refuse to now because of prices and the principle of it 

 

Do you actually know why we have early bird tickets in January?

Do you know why the phase/pricing structure is in place?

[bazapeps]

17 minutes ago, Andyben said:

Yet criticises DC for the club stagnating and not pushing on from 2017?

Has no idea if early buyers were put off new STs but confident nobody buys them in summer and he could get another 8k of sales?

Cheers  but there's no point speaking with these dummies.

The criticisms from 2017 are for various self-inflicting and totally avoidable problems and issues. 
 

surely you can’t disagree that reasonable post phase 1 prices (especially post end of season etc) would lead to increased sales? Do you disagree that a fair number would now want to buy based on the recent positivity/surivical/rohl contract but can’t / won’t due to current prices?

[bazapeps]

2 minutes ago, Billysboy said:

So you flog season tickets for say 250-300 quid, and by your logic sell say 6000 more but this makes the budget far less, how long before fucking 1867 are gobbling off the club lacks ambition.

£250-300?? Where have I ever said that?

im literally talking about reasonable prices in line with other clubs 

[bazapeps]

2 minutes ago, Tewksbury said:

Do you actually know why we have early bird tickets in January?

Do you know why the phase/pricing structure is in place?

I understand DC had said it’s because people delay buying without a deadline.

 

whilst I disagree with that principle, it can work. Eg say kop, £400 during February phase 1. Goes to £450 up to end of season. By then you risk losing your precious season. £480 from that point on etc. 

[Reesh]

All I see when Baza replies is Teflon bollocks, you can tell he works in the legal industry by his ability to say fuck all worthwhile or poignant over 3 paragraphs.

 

Off you fuck son.

Edited June 9 by Reesh

[Tewksbury]

13 minutes ago, bazapeps said:

I understand DC had said it’s because people delay buying without a deadline.

 

whilst I disagree with that principle, it can work. Eg say kop, £400 during February phase 1. Goes to £450 up to end of season. By then you risk losing your precious season. £480 from that point on etc. 

Only £50 difference in 4 months, less if on concession?

Don't tell me you wouldn't wait at that price?

You'd also have everyone buying after phase 1 waiting till the last day too, making the entire thing pointless.

BTW, do you know why we have the earlybird in January, as this is central to the entire method of season ticket sales?

[Tylluan]

Ok @bazapeps I'm willing to debate with you. 

 If you get your increased ST uptake to another 5-6k then that means an increase in matchday staffing and policing costs. If a ST price equates to £20 a game then that's roughly two extra stewards/kiosk staff for an hour but policing costs equate to £75-100 per hour per officer. So would you agree the extra revenue would get swallowed by costs?

You used Hull as an example of a more bums on seats pricing structure for on the day prices. The analysis was for 22/23 season and their Kop was £20 for an adult. Average attendances across the season increased by 27% but paying walk up footfall only increased by 8%. The rest was attributed to a vast amount of school/uni free ticketing. The owner paid in a massive amount to cover the financial shortfall. The analysis was also tethered to comparing that season to pre covid seasons in League 1 where they were lucky to get 10k.

[lobster]

All this sounds like a tiff between The People's Front of Judea and The Judean People's Front with the Romans still holding the Power

[Chelters]

I get the point baza is trying to make about maybe not settling for just selling the same as we did last season.

That doesn’t mean Chansiri has to go though.

Im interested to know if 1867, or at least some of them, have now softened their stance on Chansiri given the undeniable  improvements in the last 6 months. 

[Reesh]

23 minutes ago, Chelters said:

I get the point baza is trying to make about maybe not settling for just selling the same as we did last season.

That doesn’t mean Chansiri has to go though.

Im interested to know if 1867, or at least some of them, have now softened their stance on Chansiri given the undeniable  improvements in the last 6 months. 

Not if you read Twitter they haven't.

[Beaconowl]

12 minutes ago, Reesh said:

Not if you read Twitter they haven't.

Said it before and I will say it again - *****!

[BraddersTim]

1 hour ago, Tylluan said:

Ok @bazapeps I'm willing to debate with you. 

 If you get your increased ST uptake to another 5-6k then that means an increase in matchday staffing and policing costs. If a ST price equates to £20 a game then that's roughly two extra stewards/kiosk staff for an hour but policing costs equate to £75-100 per hour per officer. So would you agree the extra revenue would get swallowed by costs?

You used Hull as an example of a more bums on seats pricing structure for on the day prices. The analysis was for 22/23 season and their Kop was £20 for an adult. Average attendances across the season increased by 27% but paying walk up footfall only increased by 8%. The rest was attributed to a vast amount of school/uni free ticketing. The owner paid in a massive amount to cover the financial shortfall. The analysis was also tethered to comparing that season to pre covid seasons in League 1 where they were lucky to get 10k.

On that cost point. One member of staff on minimum wage will cost around £14 per hour once you add in PAYE/NI etc. 

[Reesh]

36 minutes ago, BraddersTim said:

On that cost point. One member of staff on minimum wage will cost around £14 per hour once you add in PAYE/NI etc. 

You don't add in PAYE!! The only additional cost would be employers NI

[Billysboy]

3 hours ago, bazapeps said:

£250-300?? Where have I ever said that?

im literally talking about reasonable prices in line with other clubs 

I'm sure the early bird on the kop worked out at slightly over £20, so to satisfy all the twenties plenty mob on stalk and twitter etc regarding potd, 300 quids  probably about right to make buying a ST worthwhile.

[mkowl]

The question for me is whether there is a natural cap on the quantum of season ticket holders. I am not talking the stadium capacity - though ultimately that is one - but more is the population out there. 

Yes we can whistle up 45k for a play off final, sell out a pivotal game at the end of the season etc, but how many are prospective season ticket holders 

We are a geographically widespread fan base so that restricts quite a lot.

The point here is would reducing the price equate to adequate additional season ticket holders coming along. 

I am not convinced

 

[Andyben]

Key point is that when STs were cheaper, I don't this we necessarily had more sales (parts from the uplift in th early DC years)

[Otto_Man]

1 hour ago, Billysboy said:

I'm sure the early bird on the kop worked out at slightly over £20, so to satisfy all the twenties plenty mob on stalk and twitter etc regarding potd, 300 quids  probably about right to make buying a ST worthwhile.

£460 for an adult on the kop in phase 1 so bang on £20 per game

[Gamblor]

Didn’t DC say something last year along the lines of he’d reduce prices if there were 30k sales? That nothing happened after he said that defeats the argument of if prices were lower we’d fill the stadium. 

[BraddersTim]

2 hours ago, Reesh said:

You don't add in PAYE!! The only additional cost would be employers NI

You're right of course! I was thinking of my company and if I pay someone minimum wage (I pay more than that) then potentially I'd be paying £14.29 on a 40 hour week, but that's NI, holiday pay and pension contribution.

Not really relevant to this scenario I admit 😂

[mkowl]

It would be interesting to know how many season ticket holders we had back in the day. I mean when I got my first in 1982/83 the value was you got a third of the games "free". Or you paid the equivalent of 14 games at the fixed price for the season out of the 21 games. That was the test you did. 

I mean with variable pricing and not knowing the POTG price yet you can't assess it in advance without some guesses.

Just as an aside I had to pay the full adult price at age 14. I mean for a couple of years an older mate went in on it, they gave me the money for a junior entry. We then split the difference on what he had been given by his parents 

[mkowl]

1 hour ago, Alan Finney said:

And then a career in accountancy ensued.

The clues were there I guess

[Andyben]

Fraud?

[mkowl]

9 hours ago, Andyben said:

Fraud?

2 counts as well, SWFC and the lads parents

Self reports to ICAEW 

Not forgetting I sold my season ticket voucher for the FA Cup Semi in 1983 

 

[Reesh]

59 minutes ago, mkowl said:

2 counts as well, SWFC and the lads parents

Self reports to ICAEW 

Not forgetting I sold my season ticket voucher for the FA Cup Semi in 1983 

 

You think you know someone.....

[mkowl]

48 minutes ago, Reesh said:

You think you know someone.....

Don't you worry I am too old now to change from being a boring miserable fucker

[Owling_Wolf]

21 hours ago, bazapeps said:

I also have no idea if more fans would have renewed if there was no 1867. People can make their own decisions and they’ve never criticised anyone for buying tickets. 

They absolutely have!  My mate renewed when he did 'cos he waa " sickened to the back teeth" of people telling him not to!

[Andyben]

If a thousand people didn't renew in winter because of the Nevs, but desided to after the end of the season, how much extra has it cost them?

Flip side bejng, the Nevs have therfore increased the cash in 'DC's pocket' as they would have had us believe.

[Ozzie]

Bout time we had a protest to get rid of 1867

[Andyben]

I might organise a March to the CoOp later 

[HoylandOwl]

1 hour ago, Andyben said:

I might organise a March to the CoOp later 

Off to get some Skol? 😀

[Billysboy]

1 hour ago, HoylandOwl said:

Off to get some Skol? 😀

Christ, do they still make that shit.

[Tylluan]

1 hour ago, HoylandOwl said:

Off to get some Skol? 😀

 

49 minutes ago, Billysboy said:

Christ, do they still make that shit.

Skol Skol Skol Skol

https://youtu.be/On0IImHTTNY?feature=shared

 

 

Those of a certain age will now be shuddering 

Edited June 10 by Tylluan

[Billysboy]

2 hours ago, Tylluan said:

 

Skol Skol Skol Skol

https://youtu.be/On0IImHTTNY?feature=shared

 

 

Those of a certain age will now be shuddering 

Hagar the horrible, classic🤣

[fOWLmouth]

Being a big fan of cowboys and indians I made a point of drinking Colt 45..

[CasbahOwl]

The most bizarre thread about this zoom call on Stalk …… 19 pages so far of inaccuracies, misinformation & look at me posts, from mostly, at a push,  a dozen different contributors & anyone with a differing view is piled on 🤦‍♂️

[Reesh]

50 minutes ago, CasbahOwl said:

The most bizarre thread about this zoom call on Stalk …… 19 pages so far of inaccuracies, misinformation & look at me posts, from mostly, at a push,  a dozen different contributors & anyone with a differing view is piled on 🤦‍♂️

It's why i avoid it like the plague mate. Hargreaves is a full weight wrong un ****.

[mkowl]

38 minutes ago, CasbahOwl said:

The most bizarre thread about this zoom call on Stalk …… 19 pages so far of inaccuracies, misinformation & look at me posts, from mostly, at a push,  a dozen different contributors & anyone with a differing view is piled on 🤦‍♂️

Damn you it meant I had to read it.

My conclusion, thank fuck I steer well clear of all this nonsense these days.

Harrowby Owl was part of WTID and was pretty decent at researching the backgrounds of some of the vultures that were lurking. He has been pretty pivotal in trying to get an umbrella group up and running. In essence it's a good idea, that all voices are heard, it perhaps knocks the edge off the stronger views, you provide a co-ordinated communication path with the Club. Sadly some want that to be more confrontational than collaborative, as you see from that thread.

Whether Chansiri got emotional or threatened the charitable club arm funding of certain groups is conjecture. 

My question is why does it have to be them and us. I mean both sides in this.

I would have a totally different way of doing this with the Supporters Club but that is way out their thinking 

[mkowl]

Harrowby is also a very strong advocate of the introduction of the football regulator. But at the club level, fan representation on the board, non Exec directors and all that shizzle.

As discussed elsewhere it then leads to jobs for the boys / girls / confused to have meetings about meetings and get paid. 

So my stance is a more overseeing regulator, determining the support for grass roots football from the EPL, the big stuff not forcing clubs to be run like working men's clubs (many defunct as a result of the committee approach to operating).

 

[Billysboy]

3 hours ago, CasbahOwl said:

The most bizarre thread about this zoom call on Stalk …… 19 pages so far of inaccuracies, misinformation & look at me posts, from mostly, at a push,  a dozen different contributors & anyone with a differing view is piled on 🤦‍♂️

Just had a quick look, love how many of the planks think DC is threatening to stop funding the club, not the groups and not being corrected.

[mkowl]

•    SWFC Trust
•    Sheffield Owls Disabled Association
•    Wednesdayite
•    1867 Group
•    SWFC Women’s Group
•    Armed Forces Owls
•    Rainbow Owls  
•    Southwest South Wales Owls  
•    Midlands Owls
•    Hoyland Owls 
•    Owlstalk  
•    The Wednesday Week (podcast)  
•    WTID (original) 

The groups that were discussing joining the umbrella back in March 

(I abstained on the WTID original inclusion)