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Preston North End (H) - Match Thread


HoylandOwl

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9 minutes ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

The comment about him being a Sheffielder and a fan was in response to those that say he’s doing it for his own PR. As for MM he didn’t give a fuck, ran a tight ship but that was him looking after his investment and as was shown with us and Portsmouth he never cared where or whom he sold to.

In relation to their funds, we’ve no idea they’ve got that far. Reading between the lines DC is acting the petulant child with his fingers in his ears, his prerogative of course but he can’t complain when the fan base then turn on him.

Not sure what the number of signings have to do with anything, they’re generally all squad fillers right now. In time that might change but at the moment, they and we are struggling. The one we really needed was Momo, he looks done for some time now.

Not sure what more we have to endure from DC before we let him know it’s not acceptable. 
 

I repeat that while ever he’s in charge we will not progress as a club

The team is  struggling as its adapting to a completely new playing system and off the pitch ethos, as mentioned by Josh Windass.

Not because the new players are squad fillers - 5 of the starting 11 are new players 

Edited by Andyben
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40 minutes ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

No, sorry, done with backing him. He gambled, failed and now it’s done

How does anyone know that this consortium don’t have the funds? As a betting man I’d say a Sheffielder, a supporter does not sponsor the club and attempt a takeover of it if it’s all for PR, absolute nonsense.

Only way this goes away is DC starts demonstrating he can take us forward, problem is he can’t

Someone's been getting groomed on OT again!

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4 hours ago, Winco said:

Great insight that after 3 games. 
let’s have this conversation again after 10 games.

it’s going to take time. 

It will take time to become the finished article, but there is a fine balance on how long you can have without picking up any points or really creating anything at home. If it remains like this I can’t see him getting 10 games 

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45 minutes ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

Proof will be in the pudding, my opinion is that the 3 wide players will need a lot more time than 10 games. It could be next season before we see how effective they can be in this country. We’re not good enough top either  and still need quality in the middle of the park, seems like we need a left back too but I think we can have enough at the back if he settles on his preferred personal, at the minute for me he’s making wrong selections there. 

Can we wait for the proof to either be in the pudding or not and you come back and say I told you so in another 7 games, rather than you ruining every conversation we have in here with negativity? 

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Just now, TheExile said:

It will take time to become the finished article, but there is a fine balance on how long you can have without picking up any points or really creating anything at home. If it remains like this I can’t see him getting 10 games 

He will get more than 10 games. Maybe not with you but thankfully you’re not in charge. 

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22 minutes ago, Supercockle said:

He will get more than 10 games. Maybe not with you but thankfully you’re not in charge. 

Doesn’t matter who’s in charge if you’re not picking up points. If he gets some then of course that buys him time and he will be ok 

Edited by TheExile
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It’s a 46 game season and we’ve played 3, including one against a side who’ve made £100m from selling two players since we played them. We’re two months behind everyone else because of the playoffs, the managerial change and the change in style, which will hopefully make us look more like the sort of side who are successful in this league. There don’t seem to be many people saying that yesterday didn’t represent some form of progress either. 

We need to be better, yes, but our season starts after the international break. 

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Let me tell you what is supposed to happen…

Shaw and his consortium approach Chansiri and ask him if he wants to sell (Yes/No).

If No. End of Chat.

If Yes, Chansiri states selling price and requests a guarantee and proof of funds.

Shaw and the Consortium negotiate, and provide guarantee and proof of funds.

If no. End of chat.

If all is good… period of exclusivity is offered all information provided between both parties (legal and financial). EFL asked to ratify.

If all is still well… deal done.

That is a very simplified version, but, there are multiple fail points in that process. The big one all deals fall down on is money. And whether the buyer is willing to meet the sellers asking price, and then, whether they have the funds to do so.
 

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5 hours ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

No, sorry, done with backing him. He gambled, failed and now it’s done

How does anyone know that this consortium don’t have the funds? As a betting man I’d say a Sheffielder, a supporter does not sponsor the club and attempt a takeover of it if it’s all for PR, absolute nonsense.

Only way this goes away is DC starts demonstrating he can take us forward, problem is he can’t

 

3 hours ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

Under normal circumstances yes, not while we have a full on numpty running the club 

Doesn't matter if Shaw is backed by multi-billionaires or his father-in-law's dog, that Twitter post is saying that they're not interested in Chansiri's value of the club. 

As a betting man I'd say if he was serious then he wouldn't be bleating about Chansiri and his prerogative to determine his own value. He'd have gone back in with a counter offer and it would have been hush hush like KM has said. 

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Think back over time.

How many successful takeovers has anyone seen that have been made public by the buyer even before talks have been entered?

It’s a very very short list. Think about our last two. The deal to get Milan in took zero time, and we only heard about it pretty much as it was sealed. When he sold to Chansiri, it was sprung on us.

We have had lots of chancers who have aired intentions publicly without having a pot to piss in. Sheard, Alonso, Mammadov.

I’ve followed a few other takeovers at places like Birmingham and Derby where an interested party generates public support despite having less than 50 notes to their name. At the minute Shaw is in that bracket.

Make a bid, if Chansiri doesn’t accept, make a second bid. If you are priced out, don’t proceed. If you do agree, prove you have the money.

Its a simple phrase, there’s them that talk, and them that do. 

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It’s natural for fans to start questioning Chansiri when things aren’t going so well. It’s natural to look at successful clubs with rich owners and think why can’t we have that?

But for every good owner there are two bad ones. Look at Wigan, Birmingham, Charlton to name but three. All sold to what looked like dream owners and turned into a nightmare. 

Maybe I’m just more cautious as a person but I can’t help thinking we need to be careful what we wish for. 

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I think, more than anything else, we need to trust DC when he says he’ll only sell to someone who can take us to the next stage. 
 

That’s imperative, and culturally, it would be a disaster for him to sell and see us do a Reading especially a Reading given their former owners relationship with the Chansiri family. 
 

Don’t underestimate how much that will be guiding him.

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1 hour ago, KrolMong said:

Think back over time.

How many successful takeovers has anyone seen that have been made public by the buyer even before talks have been entered?

It’s a very very short list. Think about our last two. The deal to get Milan in took zero time, and we only heard about it pretty much as it was sealed. When he sold to Chansiri, it was sprung on us.

We have had lots of chancers who have aired intentions publicly without having a pot to piss in. Sheard, Alonso, Mammadov.

I’ve followed a few other takeovers at places like Birmingham and Derby where an interested party generates public support despite having less than 50 notes to their name. At the minute Shaw is in that bracket.

Make a bid, if Chansiri doesn’t accept, make a second bid. If you are priced out, don’t proceed. If you do agree, prove you have the money.

Its a simple phrase, there’s them that talk, and them that do. 

I don't think Mamadov was in that category. He was already an owner in France.  (I don't know about in Azerbaijan.)  We just got unlucky at first, then excedingly lucky indeed not to finally do the deed with him before he apparently fell from political favour back home and - I think, from memory, went to jail.  We could have been right up the creek like his French club were for some time.

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1 hour ago, KrolMong said:

Think back over time.

How many successful takeovers has anyone seen that have been made public by the buyer even before talks have been entered?

It’s a very very short list. Think about our last two. The deal to get Milan in took zero time, and we only heard about it pretty much as it was sealed. When he sold to Chansiri, it was sprung on us.

We have had lots of chancers who have aired intentions publicly without having a pot to piss in. Sheard, Alonso, Mammadov.

I’ve followed a few other takeovers at places like Birmingham and Derby where an interested party generates public support despite having less than 50 notes to their name. At the minute Shaw is in that bracket.

Make a bid, if Chansiri doesn’t accept, make a second bid. If you are priced out, don’t proceed. If you do agree, prove you have the money.

Its a simple phrase, there’s them that talk, and them that do. 

100% this, I bow to both your and Andybens greater experience on these bigger deals, but its usually a very closed shop of who knows.

Interesting on the MM one, I have told this tale more than once, but I randomly bumped into him on the Tube in that there London. Ended up having a brief chat and directing him at the station, but he was headed to the City. All this just a few weeks at most before he sold to DC. These things are done discretely not via Rob Staton on the local radio  

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7 hours ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

The comment about him being a Sheffielder and a fan was in response to those that say he’s doing it for his own PR. As for MM he didn’t give a fuck, ran a tight ship but that was him looking after his investment and as was shown with us and Portsmouth he never cared where or whom he sold to.

In relation to their funds, we’ve no idea they’ve got that far. Reading between the lines DC is acting the petulant child with his fingers in his ears, his prerogative of course but he can’t complain when the fan base then turn on him.

You don't find it the tinniest bit suspicious that he seems to be followed round by a film crew 24/7 and that's why the likes of me think it's only for his own PR?

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12 hours ago, HoylandOwl said:

One thing I heard from Xisco yesterday which surprised me a little was his comment about not wanting us to play like PNE. Admittedly they did have a robust style, but I didn't think it was overly aggressive. But, needless to say, they did what they needed to.. 

I think that is the kind of comment that probably got him the job. But I don’t think lowe wants to play like PNE in an ideal world either given how he set up at Plymouth but needs must to even the odds. Time will tell who has the right idea but us and Preston can only invest in so much quality and it’s that which dictates.

I know others feel differently and may have seen something I am missing but as it stands I am concerned he might be trying to achieve something that isn’t possible in the short term with what we have available and that’s why we look (if we are honest) a bit lost as a team. 

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21 hours ago, TheExile said:

I think that is the kind of comment that probably got him the job. But I don’t think lowe wants to play like PNE in an ideal world either given how he set up at Plymouth but needs must to even the odds. Time will tell who has the right idea but us and Preston can only invest in so much quality and it’s that which dictates.

I know others feel differently and may have seen something I am missing but as it stands I am concerned he might be trying to achieve something that isn’t possible in the short term with what we have available and that’s why we look (if we are honest) a bit lost as a team. 

You can play Preston’s way and get promoted. Brighton did it the year after we beat them in the play off finals. They had two outstanding centre halves, athleticism in the middle of the park, two very good wide men, and a unit up top who scored a load of goals.

They were big, strong, organized and athletic. Preston haven’t got anywhere near the talent, but to works. A more recent example is Luton from last season. They played a high tempo and turned people around. Very simple, but very effective.

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12 minutes ago, KrolMong said:

You can play Preston’s way and get promoted. Brighton did it the year after we beat them in the play off finals. They had two outstanding centre halves, athleticism in the middle of the park, two very good wide men, and a unit up top who scored a load of goals.

They were big, strong, organized and athletic. Preston haven’t got anywhere near the talent, but to works. A more recent example is Luton from last season. They played a high tempo and turned people around. Very simple, but very effective.

Yeah wouldn’t disagree with that and it’s a bit like what got us out of L1. Much of our recruitment has focused on physical attributes too

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IF, and it is a big IF that the new players that have been brought in have some sort of sense/plan around it all, that aligns with the managers ideals and way of playing and it's round pegs in round holes then we should be comfortably mid table. 3 games in with nowt might be a slight worry but it's early doors.

Cardiff and Leeds away next up works for me as both haven't started great and we can get something from those games although we may not.

Marathon not a sprint and IMO this season is all about retaining championship status which I believe we will.

UTO

 

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3 minutes ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

Although we do need to be patient I do worry that the longer results take to come the harder it’ll become to get one. The impact on the players will become difficult, especially those younger lads in a foreign country we’re hoping to give us a spark, this is why it’s disappointing to see people like MJ frozen out, we could need him soon

The conundrum is that we are making the transition in very public view, with opposition teams having their input into its success - how dare they - but with the dimension of grumbling fans and the biggy as you allude of the psychological impact of defeats and no points on the board.

All of us wanted out of League 1, but we did it with a squad that won us promotion, not a promotion winning squad. Quelle difference you might say, but the latter is one that plays with a swagger, looks a class above and with a few tweaks is well prepared for the higher league. 

Even with 96 points it sounds daft but I was never overawed by our style last season. The number of average performances in there, the times we were outplayed or outsmarted.

So that squad needed adding to for sure, but throwing in a change of head coach and a change of style to boot is a huge gamble 

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So you’re saying we should’ve lobbed DM what he demanded for the sake of the greater good?

the squad wasn’t good enough it’s there for all to see it needed massive changes. I can understand people’s frustration at the minute and with 2 tough away games coming it ain’t gonna get easier. Gotta give the guy a chance.

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1 hour ago, mkowlthesexynewversion said:

All of us wanted out of League 1, but we did it with a squad that won us promotion, not a promotion winning squad. Quelle difference you might say, but the latter is one that plays with a swagger, looks a class above and with a few tweaks is well prepared for the higher league. 

Ipswich, for example. Although I do think they'll die off once that momentum rides out and they lose a couple back to back.

We have Cardiff Leeds away. They have Leeds Cardiff at home then come to us first game after the break. That will show us how far away we are

Edited by Tylluan
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1 hour ago, Tylluan said:

Ipswich, for example. Although I do think they'll die off once that momentum rides out and they lose a couple back to back.

We have Cardiff Leeds away. They have Leeds Cardiff at home then come to us first game after the break. That will show us how far away we are

its an interesting one, because a club that we seek never to mention did not lose the momentum and went thru to the EPL fairly quickly

Luton quite similar

The Championship is such a tight competition that being 5% above the rest puts you in the play off mix. We are probably 5% - 10% below the rest and hence bottom at present. 

The question is can we bridge the gap

 

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20 minutes ago, mkowlthesexynewversion said:

its an interesting one, because a club that we seek never to mention did not lose the momentum and went thru to the EPL fairly quickly

Luton quite similar

The Championship is such a tight competition that being 5% above the rest puts you in the play off mix. We are probably 5% - 10% below the rest and hence bottom at present. 

The question is can we bridge the gap

 

Those percentage differences are probably a decent Striker and more attacking left back away. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Winco said:

So you’re saying we should’ve lobbed DM what he demanded for the sake of the greater good?

the squad wasn’t good enough it’s there for all to see it needed massive changes. I can understand people’s frustration at the minute and with 2 tough away games coming it ain’t gonna get easier. Gotta give the guy a chance.

I think that whilst the squad needed some youth and energy to add a bit of dynamism in attack, it still had a relatively solid core. I don’t think it helps to have our two main goal threats from last season on the bench or in a wide position all in the name of style of play. Unless you’ve replaced with better which we haven’t yet.

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@TheExile Would you give Windass a go as the main striker? Not as a holder or battering ram but more to make the centre halves think more, with his movement, and hopefully create space for others that way?

As intelligent as Gregory is I think Windass might offer a little more and I think we'd win more free kicks in there. Seeing as our forward line isn't working at the moment I'd be tempted to give it a try. 

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47 minutes ago, Tylluan said:

@TheExile Would you give Windass a go as the main striker? Not as a holder or battering ram but more to make the centre halves think more, with his movement, and hopefully create space for others that way?

As intelligent as Gregory is I think Windass might offer a little more and I think we'd win more free kicks in there. Seeing as our forward line isn't working at the moment I'd be tempted to give it a try. 

I totally forgot about Windass being on the bench on Saturday.  

I wonder if Xisco would have replaced Bannan with him if Mo Mo had not gone off injured.  Suppose he could still have brought Vaulks on and put Windass in the 10 role.

Windass's performances v Southampton and Hull were particularly lackluster as was his performance in the PO Final despite scoring the winner so that may be in his thinking.

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1 hour ago, Tylluan said:

@TheExile Would you give Windass a go as the main striker? Not as a holder or battering ram but more to make the centre halves think more, with his movement, and hopefully create space for others that way?

As intelligent as Gregory is I think Windass might offer a little more and I think we'd win more free kicks in there. Seeing as our forward line isn't working at the moment I'd be tempted to give it a try. 

Yeah I was wondering if that would work for him, as you say Gregory doesn’t want the ball in the air but I think he has a back to goal instinct that Windass doesn’t have.
 

Whilst he doesn’t consider himself a striker, one of his best ever games for us was as a second striker off smith v Newcastle where he had a bit of space to operate. I think he’d need to be in a 2 at home unless we were likely to be countering all game and picking the ball up deep like we were at Soton. I think the main issue is just how far apart everyone is and how difficult they are finding it to pick a pass out. 
 

Away from home it could be worth a try though in some games. Remember when either Jones or Gray played a trio of wingers (maybe) Antonio, JJ and perhaps Helan away at Hull which seemed odd but it caused them a few issues when expecting to do battle with someone like Gary Madine. 

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1 hour ago, Hirstys 12th Pint said:

I totally forgot about Windass being on the bench on Saturday.  

I wonder if Xisco would have replaced Bannan with him if Mo Mo had not gone off injured.  Suppose he could still have brought Vaulks on and put Windass in the 10 role.

Windass's performances v Southampton and Hull were particularly lackluster as was his performance in the PO Final despite scoring the winner so that may be in his thinking.

I don’t think Windass has played well out wide. But I don’t think he has that speed over distance that he had earlier in his career. Stick him in those pockets of space and he can hurt teams and be difficult to pick up. It is becoming a case of who do you swap him for if only one up front though. 

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22 minutes ago, TheExile said:

Yeah I was wondering if that would work for him, as you say Gregory doesn’t want the ball in the air but I think he has a back to goal instinct that Windass doesn’t have.
 

Whilst he doesn’t consider himself a striker, one of his best ever games for us was as a second striker off smith v Newcastle where he had a bit of space to operate. I think he’d need to be in a 2 at home unless we were likely to be countering all game and picking the ball up deep like we were at Soton. I think the main issue is just how far apart everyone is and how difficult they are finding it to pick a pass out. 
 

Away from home it could be worth a try though in some games. Remember when either Jones or Gray played a trio of wingers (maybe) Antonio, JJ and perhaps Helan away at Hull which seemed odd but it caused them a few issues when expecting to do battle with someone like Gary Madine. 

I think that was Gray playing Antonio & JJ up front at Hull.  I thought about that on Sunday night when the MOTD pundits were celebrating MA's super goal and one of them said that until recently he'd never been played up front in his career. 

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12 hours ago, Owling_Wolf said:

I think that was Gray playing Antonio & JJ up front at Hull.  I thought about that on Sunday night when the MOTD pundits were celebrating MA's super goal and one of them said that until recently he'd never been played up front in his career. 

Of course they said that, we all know football is only played in the Premier League........

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