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Preston North End (H) - Match Thread


HoylandOwl

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It’s the creation of chances that’s the worry. Gregory is a decent finisher (as is Windass), but some of the balls played to him today he’d have needed the first touch of Lionel Messi to do something with them.

Agree with winco, we’re a good month behind other clubs so they need around 10 games before they can be judged, hopefully by which time we’ve been able to dip into the loan market and fill in the already identifiable positional gaps/concerns.

I also agree with mk, the step up from League 1 to Championship is looking like a big one for Bannan, and he doesn’t look anything like as effective a player as he was in League 1 (maybe that’s because of how the manager wants him to play now, so the jury is still out to an extent on that one).

We have to be realistic though. We’ve a lot of new players not only new to the Championship but some are new to the country as well. We’ve a new manager who’s not had time to put his stamp on things - it’s going to take time and as much as we all want it to happen and go well for the new players, not all of them are going to succeed at SWFC. No manager sees success with every signing he makes.

I just want us to stay up and begin to plan and build something positive for the future, and I’m prepared to be patient if short term pain means longer term gain. I’d take fourth bottom now if offered it. Problem is I don’t think many SWFC supporters will see things that way and I can see things becoming nasty at S6 if things don’t pick up sooner rather than later.

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Well it was all a bit frustrating with a few reasons for hope.

Gregory had opportunities but was either too slow to take the chance and got snuffed out by their defence or when he did a shot away he got blocked. I still think he’s the best we’ve got, which I assume is why XM picks him. I also think Gregory is used playing against bigger blokes and finding angles, so I’d stick with him. The trick is to provide better passes/ crosses for him.

Apart from the goal obviously I thought defensively we were OK. How their 6 was free to run on to that is a concern, he was clearly their biggest fella.

I hear what others are saying about Bambo, the same can be said about Iorfa. I must admit I thought Bernard would have been started in this or the Hull game. Maybe put Iorfa to RB, he played there before and has pace to deal with most things. He’s also less pressured to be the passer at the back.

 I really liked the look of Diaby considering he’s only been her 2mins and it was his first game. Let’s hope it is nothing serious because the team looked much more balanced with him in there, a real positive, as was having Byers back.

Famewo is doing a great job as a LB but it’s not his position and actually he would be better in the left CB position.

Devis again looked assured, can’t fault him for the goal and his passing out again was impressive.

Now to the not so good. Whilst I like a fast tricky winger the two new lads are going to need some time. Mussaba was the better of the two on that showing but no end product from either.

Palmer seemed clueless at times and whilst I think he could do OK he needs to keep the passing simple.

I like the look of Delgado but a bit like some of the others I just didn’t see any end product and he rarely seems to help his RB out. I actually thought Pato caused them more concerns than Delgado. Again, probably just needs to settle and we will see better progress.

Bannan I thought did “ok” until Diaby went off and then he wasn’t effective. I think XM knows he not really powerful enough for centre mid hence using more like 10/ or further forward mid.

Finally whilst I don’t think Windass has been very effective seem he got injured at the end of last season (despite his goal at Wembley) I think he would be better (for the time being) in the left wing or advanced midfield role, ie where Bannan was playing.

More for XM to ponder but better balance today, just worrying at the lack of goal opportunities.

The international break and a couple more signings are needed but I don’t we need to be panicking just yet.

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1 hour ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

Against Stockport, with our first look at Bernard and Diaby, I thought Bernard had the better game so was surprised Diaby got the nod. He’s not convinced me since, worries me massively 

Completely agree about Bernard that night.  I wonder if Xisco's comment about Bambo's help in training, (with his language skills), swings it on match days also.

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Good points- Momo. Bad Points _- just about everything else.

If scouts from other teams watched Wednesday so far this season, they would leave by half time. I worry that most of the new signings won't fit in, or just haven't got what it takes. I watched the Plymouth match and they gave Southampton a game, unlike us. They played better today than the other games, including the friendlies, but there is very limited ability to create chances. I know it takes time to be a cohesive unit, but IF that happens, how many points will we be adrift by then?

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Much improved on the last two performances. I thought Momo, Delgado and Musaba looked good. Let’s hope nothing too serious for Diaby as him and Byers looked like they could forge a decent partnership. Creatively we lacked and whilst our chances weren’t great, you’ve got to take them to stay in games. 
 

Ours subs have arguably made us worse in each of the 3 games so far. 
 

a week or so ago I said maybe only 5 from last season would stay in the starting line up. Now I think we could end up seeing almost all new players forming the side that starts the game. 
 

We’re getting better, we just need to get two or three more games under our belts and hope we scrape a win somewhere along the way. 

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Just now, Angelinblue said:

Good points- Momo. Bad Points _- just about everything else.

If scouts from other teams watched Wednesday so far this season, they would leave by half time. I worry that most of the new signings won't fit in, or just haven't got what it takes. I watched the Plymouth match and they gave Southampton a game, unlike us. They played better today than the other games, including the friendlies, but there is very limited ability to create chances. I know it takes time to be a cohesive unit, but IF that happens, how many points will we be adrift by then?

Definitely not a Wednesday fan this ****

 

 

Off you fuck spastic.

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7 minutes ago, Tank_Owl2,0 said:

Well it was all a bit frustrating with a few reasons for hope.

Gregory had opportunities but was either too slow to take the chance and got snuffed out by their defence or when he did a shot away he got blocked. I still think he’s the best we’ve got, which I assume is why XM picks him. I also think Gregory is used playing against bigger blokes and finding angles, so I’d stick with him. The trick is to provide better passes/ crosses for him.

Apart from the goal obviously I thought defensively we were OK. How their 6 was free to run on to that is a concern, he was clearly their biggest fella.

I hear what others are saying about Bambo, the same can be said about Iorfa. I must admit I thought Bernard would have been started in this or the Hull game. Maybe put Iorfa to RB, he played there before and has pace to deal with most things. He’s also less pressured to be the passer at the back.

 I really liked the look of Diaby considering he’s only been her 2mins and it was his first game. Let’s hope it is nothing serious because the team looked much more balanced with him in there, a real positive, as was having Byers back.

Famewo is doing a great job as a LB but it’s not his position and actually he would be better in the left CB position.

Devis again looked assured, can’t fault him for the goal and his passing out again was impressive.

Now to the not so good. Whilst I like a fast tricky winger the two new lads are going to need some time. Mussaba was the better of the two on that showing but no end product from either.

Palmer seemed clueless at times and whilst I think he could do OK he needs to keep the passing simple.

I like the look of Delgado but a bit like some of the others I just didn’t see any end product and he rarely seems to help his RB out. I actually thought Pato caused them more concerns than Delgado. Again, probably just needs to settle and we will see better progress.

Bannan I thought did “ok” until Diaby went off and then he wasn’t effective. I think XM knows he not really powerful enough for centre mid hence using more like 10/ or further forward mid.

Finally whilst I don’t think Windass has been very effective seem he got injured at the end of last season (despite his goal at Wembley) I think he would be better (for the time being) in the left wing or advanced midfield role, ie where Bannan was playing.

More for XM to ponder but better balance today, just worrying at the lack of goal opportunities.

The international break and a couple more signings are needed but I don’t we need to be panicking just yet.

Cracking post.

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I suppose that could be a factor Owling. However you would hope that wouldn’t keep him in the team long term once the players settle etc.

Preston and Hull were pretty similar finishing positions last season and are a decent yardstick, as has been debated. TBH whilst the Hull game wasn’t pretty (I’m sure XM learnt something about his players that day) and today wasn’t great either, I think it also suggests we have nothing much to fear once we get the players settle etc and start playing as a team.

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1 minute ago, Tank_Owl2,0 said:

I’m suppose that could be a factor Owling. However you would hope that wouldn’t keep him in the team long term once the players settle etc.

Preston and Hull were pretty similar finishing positions last season and are a decent yardstick, as has been debated. TBH whilst the Hull game wasn’t pretty (I’m sure XM learnt something about his players that day) and today wasn’t great either, I think it also suggests we have nothing much to fear once we get the players settle etc and start playing as a team.

That is the conundrum, the Championship is a tough league and it's very even in most games. So the positive is if we can get up to speed and improve the quality then we could be OK.

However you can't really go 6 or more games without picking up a point and not expect the pressure to impact on how this goes.

My issue is still how totally unprepared we were for promotion. 

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6 minutes ago, Supercockle said:

Much improved on the last two performances. I thought Momo, Delgado and Musaba looked good. Let’s hope nothing too serious for Diaby as him and Byers looked like they could forge a decent partnership. Creatively we lacked and whilst our chances weren’t great, you’ve got to take them to stay in games. 
 

Ours subs have arguably made us worse in each of the 3 games so far. 
 

a week or so ago I said maybe only 5 from last season would stay in the starting line up. Now I think we could end up seeing almost all new players forming the side that starts the game. 
 

We’re getting better, we just need to get two or three more games under our belts and hope we scrape a win somewhere along the way. 

I think you are right, but I also suspect some of the L1 squad are also trying to adapt to a different style of play which probably makes them look worse. I think Windass mentioned it in his interview, ie they have been used to playing a certain way for the last 2 seasons.

I think there are more than 5 we would keep in the match day squad but agree the new signings are likely to be and need to make a difference.

So, for now I’d be hanging on to Dawson, Iorfa, Famewo, Byers, Bannan, Windass, Gregory, Pato and Vaulks.

Weve not seen Johnson so I’d sit on the fence until he’s been tried.

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1 hour ago, Otto_Man said:

Just me thought Palmer was fucking woeful today then?

It certainly wasn't me!  I thought he was excellent in first half: launching attacks and racing forward: something we've missed.  Got crocked twice and I was surprised he came back out second half.  Blotted his copy book with a suicidal blind backpass which found the 'keeper on his hols again.  Was Liam not at Hull, then?

The other that impressed in a massive improvement in the first half was Momo.  Just what we've needed, one dangerous loss of possession aside.  Haven't seen their goal back but, from the other half, it also seemed to be him trailing behind the scorer. Hope he's not out long but that didn't look good. Let's hope it's not another Famewo debut.  

I thought at HT that if we could somehow cut out the source of that long diagonal left to right ball they were hitting Keane with, then we'd profit.  Then that PNE had been sent out with different tactics second half: shake us up with lots of high, bouncing balls.  It worked, gaining them stacks of territory at will.  The goal was a shame when it came and especially the way that it did.  Basics.  It wasn't pretty when we threw the kitchen sink at them later on: very few long throws or crosses went to Wednesday players and so many launched counters.  Very frustrating!

He's got plenty to lift them about from the first half before he moves on to the mess that came later but overall that's an encouraging step forward.  Perhaps the first one we've seen.

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We are carrying a high risk, high reward squad. All largely unproven, not just at Championship level, but in many cases, in English football full stop. There’s clearly a lot of raw ability there.

What we don’t have is a mass of proven championship quality players especially in attacking areas. That’s what we need to see come in over the next two weeks, and also what Xisco has identified as a gap.

Be big, strong and organised. Have pace in wide areas, a goalscorer and some craft and guile centrally. I think we have some of this already.

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Interesting reading the other view that last seasons squad would have won today's game 

It's hypothetical of course but I really can't see how that would be the case. 

Or indeed that Moore would have the tactical nous.

These new players are definitely technically better, it's the fact we are expecting them to integrate to English football in plain view 

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1 minute ago, TheExile said:

Gutted about that Diame injury as he seems like he could be really key for us. Not sure about the other Diame yet, seeing as he is unable to mark anyone properly 

The Hull lad who scored the winner at Wembley?

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1 hour ago, mkowlthesexynewversion said:

That is the conundrum, the Championship is a tough league and it's very even in most games. So the positive is if we can get up to speed and improve the quality then we could be OK.

However you can't really go 6 or more games without picking up a point and not expect the pressure to impact on how this goes.

My issue is still how totally unprepared we were for promotion. 

From Forest Green onwards, did you expect promotion?  I know I certainly didn't.

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13 minutes ago, KrolMong said:

We are carrying a high risk, high reward squad. All largely unproven, not just at Championship level, but in many cases, in English football full stop. There’s clearly a lot of raw ability there.

What we don’t have is a mass of proven championship quality players especially in attacking areas. That’s what we need to see come in over the next two weeks, and also what Xisco has identified as a gap.

Be big, strong and organised. Have pace in wide areas, a goalscorer and some craft and guile centrally. I think we have some of this already.

Yeah that bit of quality, if we can get it, seems to be the difference between staying up or not. 

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There were glimpses in the first half of where things are going at least. For 20 mins of the first half we dominated the ball and it seemed like the crowd sensed it too. 

The young wingers are just that, young lads. Musaba was the epitome of it, his decision making isn’t there yet. But he did a couple of times carry the ball well. I think Gassama couldn’t really get into the game, and as LiamOwl said to me after the game he maybe tried too hard. 

Momo looks like a player, hopefully he’s not got the s6 injury curse in game 1. But he made a big difference to what we’ve seen, and the ability of Byers on the ball beside him was a feature too early on.

Bit that awful set piece goal we conceded just seemed to sap any ounce of confidence we had as a group. Yes there was still effort in there, Famewo and Diaby (B) epitomised that but the passes became forced, they weren’t working as a result and it petered out for us. 

The ref, was awful. And I think he got worse. There was a definite handball in the first half (that’s based on the replay I’ve seen post game) and that ‘foul’ on their keeper in the second half from Pato’s long throw was a joke.

Woodman’s half arsed attempt to get to the ball but bouncing off those in front of him was NEVER a foul. Also. While Bobby Madley was poor the other week, dishing cards out all over the place, Mr Simpson may as well be called Homer as he was adept at controlling the game as much as the cartoon bloke runs a nuclear power plant!

But… small positives were there. And right now. I’d prefer to take those, than none at all. 

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We thought ref. was decent in the first half but abysmal in the 2nd.  How much time wasting did he allow, especially at throw-ins in front of the North?  And then, after eleventy-three subs as well, we get an extra six minutes?   Did we imagine that they were cutting down on that shit? 

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1 hour ago, Owling_Wolf said:

We thought ref. was decent in the first half but abysmal in the 2nd.  How much time wasting did he allow, especially at throw-ins in front of the North?  And then, after eleventy-three subs as well, we get an extra six minutes?   Did we imagine that they were cutting down on that shit? 

Thought ref today was same standard as the shit from last, don't think there's much difference between championship and league 1 to be honest.

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That was a right set-up on ITV EFL. Our 'highlights' included two separate clips of some of our fans leaving the ground. All taken in a way that made it look like our fans were streaming out of the ground because of what they were seeing, rather than the usual ones leaving just before the end. That stinks!

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9 hours ago, Owling_Wolf said:

That was a right set-up on ITV EFL. Our 'highlights' included two separate clips of some of our fans leaving the ground. All taken in a way that made it look like our fans were streaming out of the ground because of what they were seeing, rather than the usual ones leaving just before the end. That stinks!

The game was the 3pm choice for a lot of overseas broadcasters. So there may have been a narrative being developed in the commentary. If that was Paul Walker then be no surprise. 

The Ifollow feed did have various shots of the fans leaving which ITV have cobbled together 

The point is the media have bought in to the "Moore was hard done to" and DC is a bit maverick. So there is not much empathy toward us. 

 

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It highlights one of the downsides of being in the Championship. A lot of overseas Ifollow users were unable to access the game as it was on their local TV channel. It was always the case but probably been a while since that actually happened.

But Rob O'Neil and Pearson were totally clueless. Not only on this but when Byers and Palmer went off injured, they were screaming at the ref to let them back on straightaway.

Whether the 30 second rule is fair is another matter, but as commentator know the rules FFS. 

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1 minute ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

Slept on it, we’re in massive trouble without 3 or 4 proven Championship players.

With this squad and manager I genuinely don’t see where our next win is coming from. They can’t ge blamed mind, this is all on Chansiri.

He doesn’t not have the ability to take us forward any longer. He has a responsibility to the fans to protect the future of the club and therefore should at least open dialogue with potential investors/buyers.

I know that will go against the grain on here but we can’t stick our head in the sand and hope for the best, that’s not coming.

As things stand Munoz has no idea and is hoping to fall over a formula to deliver some success, we don’t have it. Especially now he’s pissed off a lot of last years squad, Windass looked less than impressed yesterday and was away very early, along with Ihekwe.

Hope i‘m wrong but I think we’re fucked, this is worse that any time of DC’s tenure because of the lack of quality within the squad 

Time to go Chansiri, you tried but you failed. It’s done. We either get big changes and quick or we’re down 

 

The anaesthetic not worn yet....

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2 minutes ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

Slept on it, we’re in massive trouble without 3 or 4 proven Championship players.

With this squad and manager I genuinely don’t see where our next win is coming from. They can’t ge blamed mind, this is all on Chansiri.

He doesn’t not have the ability to take us forward any longer. He has a responsibility to the fans to protect the future of the club and therefore should at least open dialogue with potential investors/buyers.

I know that will go against the grain on here but we can’t stick our head in the sand and hope for the best, that’s not coming.

As things stand Munoz has no idea and is hoping to fall over a formula to deliver some success, we don’t have it. Especially now he’s pissed off a lot of last years squad, Windass looked less than impressed yesterday and was away very early, along with Ihekwe.

Hope i‘m wrong but I think we’re fucked, this is worse that any time of DC’s tenure because of the lack of quality within the squad 

Time to go Chansiri, you tried but you failed. It’s done. We either get big changes and quick or we’re down 

 

Adam Shaw has nicked Nevs Log in

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8 minutes ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

You know me, I’m rarely reactionary and wanted to sleep on it first but those are my thoughts right now. Hope I’m wrong but if we don’t do anything we’re down 

Great insight that after 3 games. 
let’s have this conversation again after 10 games.

it’s going to take time. 

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While I'm not aligned with Nev's point of view, I understand why some would feel that way. 

I do think the local media aren't helping with that either, piling on Xisco more. A cursory, it was better re possession percentage being mentioned before chucking headlong into 'are you concerned, lost 3 on the bounce etc etc'. Yeah, they have a job to do. I get that, but they don't need to turn into the knee-jerk either way reactionary type shit that we see across social media. It's NOT a measure of the fanbase, which they say they try to represent.

 

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I'd go back to bed Nev.

Not sure how it's DCs fault that thong song hasn't got a clue?!

In terms of last year's squad, if they were up to it, they'd be playing and for me Palmer yesterday was a damning indictment of why they aren't. Everything slowed down when it got to him and he made poor decisions time and again.

Let's be right yesterday was a 0-0 bore draw until we switched off from the free kick that should never have been. I saw some green shoots against a very well established Championship team.

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Well, we've gt DC for the foreseeable so unless you know anyone who wants to blow £200m+ on a vanity project let's just back him eh? 

We've got the core there, three additional signings will make a huge difference, the coach is changing absolutely everything about how we played last year THANK FUCKING CHRIST, and by end of September well see how much better this squad and coach team is.

 

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1 minute ago, Andyben said:

Well, we've gt DC for the foreseeable so unless you know anyone who wants to blow £200m+ on a vanity project let's just back him eh? 

We've got the core there, three additional signings will make a huge difference, the coach is changing absolutely everything about how we played last year THANK FUCKING CHRIST, and by end of September well see how much better this squad and coach team is.

 

The coach is changing more than just the way we play, ask Windass, it's changing how they train, how they eat etc

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49 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said:

One thing I heard from Xisco yesterday which surprised me a little was his comment about not wanting us to play like PNE. Admittedly they did have a robust style, but I didn't think it was overly aggressive. But, needless to say, they did what they needed to.. 

His statement would have more credibility if his style of play was becoming clearer to see.

 

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11 minutes ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

No, sorry, done with backing him. He gambled, failed and now it’s done

How does anyone know that this consortium don’t have the funds? As a betting man I’d say a Sheffielder, a supporter does not sponsor the club and attempt a takeover of it if it’s all for PR, absolute nonsense.

Only way this goes away is DC starts demonstrating he can take us forward, problem is he can’t

Surely the alleged consortium needs to prove that it does have funds, not supporters prove that it doesn't?  

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