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In the book entitled "The perpetual disappointment of following The Wednesday"

The only solace is this was "good" despair, in that we failed to get success, compared to "bad" despair we had 12 months ago of getting relegated.

At least we are saved from the nice day out despair - that is definitely worse.

But it brings an end to the season. I am realistic here, it could have, there is an argument should have, been a better season but 12 months ago I feared for the Club.

So we are in a better place and whilst there will be an inquest on this season, I think getting the club turned round and actually enjoying the football is a plus.

The key now is how (perhaps whom) we build and achieve automatic promotion. No fucking around with the play offs please 

So that has to be in place for day 1. We need players that will be on the pitch not treatment room, we need more energy and pace, we need to stop fretting, we need to stop fretting about volume and this next week

Is Moore that person ? 

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I’m not sure he is but he appears to be able to attract and sign decent players, so I’d probably leave him in charge for a couple of months next season and see how he does. Rather than run the risk of another summer of wholesale changes. 

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I just think a change in manager will see another slow start and half a season wasted again. Over the past 4 months we have seen it work so need to hold our nerve and believe.

Definitely need that pace and trickery, but also a little nous and nastiness. Get Dean in, sign a couple of strikers and a big bastard midfielder. Maybe have to sell or let a few go that we ideally wouldn’t want to (Luongo? Bannan?) but so be it.

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Posted (edited)

We definitely can't change the manager and I think it's pointless talking about it because DC won't do it anyway ....

...but..... are way way too soft....with the softest of the softest underbelly.....we mirror DM's affable persona in a way....we do things by the book and don't want to rock the boat......contrast that with them last night....Alex Neil is a weasely spitty snidey twat of a football manager......he knows the tricks of the trade and he'll bend them to give his team's the upper hand......his players played exactly the same way over both legs Vs us and knocked us out.....we have to develop a harder edge otherwise it'll be 3 seasons in League One....

somebody has said it already.......nice guys never win....and that's absolutely bang on!!

Over to you DM ....

Edited by MPB
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i concur that the gung ho reaction would be to shift Moore, but I think he needs to build but absolutely be ready from Match 1 - not pissing around in transfer windows. 

there still will be a large turnaround in players with the loan signings going back and others either not getting new contracts or declining them

Be interesting to see how the squad develops 

 

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Luongo will be gone, looked class at times but his body can't keep up with his speed of thought nor can it cope with more energetic opponents. A shame as he's only 29 but plays more like he's 34. Think he'll be returning back down under 

Bannan will do another year unless the club decide to get some funds in while they can, £1m fee plus the £1m saved on wages might be too much to turn down. I also think if he stays around and gets us up that he'd struggle to readjust in the championship anyway, on that basis i'd understand if he ended up leaving. 

We need to do everything we can to retain Gregory, looked our fittest of players going in to the last minutes of the game. Paterson, Kamberi, Sow, Berahino, TJJ, Shodipo, thanks for your efforts but goodbye.

Same with Dunkley and Gibson. Wildsmith will finally go. Try and get Dean back, i'd offer new years to Hunt, Johnson & Hutchinson and probably Windass too. The toughest call to make is Iorfa

Not sure if I have missed any that are out of contract? It's another massive rebuild i'm afraid but that's as a result of having our hands half tied last summer. This time we need to build a team that can compete and that is building for the future rather than just getting a team of frees and loans that can compete 

 

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Posted (edited)

Think Moore has done too much to turn the club round not just on the pitch after the shambles of the previous two years not to be allowed another crack.  He has had to contend with the fall outs of Monk, Pulis, Chansiri's dabblings, points deductions, a Pandamic and being seriously ill and still managed to assemble a pretty decent squad more or less from scratch.  Some feared in May 2021 we would go straight through the division.

On the down side it took him a while to find his best 11 and formation and has tinkered too much.  

Looking at the squad from this year there is going to need to be a similar rebuild but probably on a stronger footing, although still sobering veiwing. 

Departing after loans:

BPF, Dean, Gibson, Shodipo, Kamberi, Storey, John Jules

Out of Contract:

Luongo, Berahino, Paterson, Hunt, Palmer, Dunkley, Hutchinson, Wildsmith, Sow (?), NML (?)

In Contract:

Bannan, Windass, Iorfa, Byers, Gregory, FDB, Johnson, Adeniran, Brown, Dawson

 

Edited by Hirstys 12th Pint
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6 hours ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

Luongo will be gone, looked class at times but his body can't keep up with his speed of thought nor can it cope with more energetic opponents. A shame as he's only 29 but plays more like he's 34. Think he'll be returning back down under 

Bannan will do another year unless the club decide to get some funds in while they can, £1m fee plus the £1m saved on wages might be too much to turn down. I also think if he stays around and gets us up that he'd struggle to readjust in the championship anyway, on that basis i'd understand if he ended up leaving. 

We need to do everything we can to retain Gregory, looked our fittest of players going in to the last minutes of the game. Paterson, Kamberi, Sow, Berahino, TJJ, Shodipo, thanks for your efforts but goodbye.

Same with Dunkley and Gibson. Wildsmith will finally go. Try and get Dean back, i'd offer new years to Hunt, Johnson & Hutchinson and probably Windass too. The toughest call to make is Iorfa

Not sure if I have missed any that are out of contract? It's another massive rebuild i'm afraid but that's as a result of having our hands half tied last summer. This time we need to build a team that can compete and that is building for the future rather than just getting a team of frees and loans that can compete 

 

TTJ?  I know he didn't ask to be injured but FFS!  Never in the field of human (football) conflict has LESS been achieved.  

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7 hours ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

Luongo will be gone, looked class at times but his body can't keep up with his speed of thought nor can it cope with more energetic opponents. A shame as he's only 29 but plays more like he's 34. Think he'll be returning back down under 

Bannan will do another year unless the club decide to get some funds in while they can, £1m fee plus the £1m saved on wages might be too much to turn down. I also think if he stays around and gets us up that he'd struggle to readjust in the championship anyway, on that basis i'd understand if he ended up leaving. 

We need to do everything we can to retain Gregory, looked our fittest of players going in to the last minutes of the game. Paterson, Kamberi, Sow, Berahino, TJJ, Shodipo, thanks for your efforts but goodbye.

Same with Dunkley and Gibson. Wildsmith will finally go. Try and get Dean back, i'd offer new years to Hunt, Johnson & Hutchinson and probably Windass too. The toughest call to make is Iorfa

Not sure if I have missed any that are out of contract? It's another massive rebuild i'm afraid but that's as a result of having our hands half tied last summer. This time we need to build a team that can compete and that is building for the future rather than just getting a team of frees and loans that can compete 

 

I know body language at a time like last night can make it difficult to judge anything, but while most players (and I liked BPF’s patting of the badge to the Kop) applauded the fans. 
To me it was quite noticeable how Luongo, was waving to the stands. Like a goodbye type wave interspersed with the odd clap. Made me think he was off.

Personally, I hope not, as this season especially post Xmas his positional sense and tenacity has been a vital part of where we finished. 

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17 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said:

I know body language at a time like last night can make it difficult to judge anything, but while most players (and I liked BPF’s patting of the badge to the Kop) applauded the fans. 
To me it was quite noticeable how Luongo, was waving to the stands. Like a goodbye type wave interspersed with the odd clap. Made me think he was off.

Personally, I hope not, as this season especially post Xmas his positional sense and tenacity has been a vital part of where we finished. 

Exactly, no point even offering a contract, he’s going off and question marks over his long term fitness anyway, last night it showed 

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3 hours ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

Exactly, no point even offering a contract, he’s going off and question marks over his long term fitness anyway, last night it showed 

Think in Luongos case might be more where he wants to live in the World as opposed to the club. 

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I'm in agreement re DM. Have I got reservations? Absolutely.

However, a change of manager presents a risk in itself. In his support, he knows the league, he knows the players at the club, so should know what we need to improve, he appears to be able to attract good players and with that and a more stable situation I'm hoping that might mean we can get some better loanees for next term. On the negatives, I think he tactically seems out of his depth at times (btw Alex Neil has more experience but hopefully DM will have learnt something), his tinkering for no apparent good reason with the first 11 has seemingly caused more difficulties than it solved at times, there are consistently weaknesses to the team, e.g. conceding from set pieces and late goals.

id give him to January, by which time you would hope DC will know whether we are in with a good shout or is history repeating.

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I am still on the fence with him. 

He has done so much good work, but then done so much silly stuff which impacts on the performances. 

I am thinking give him a go to start the season, but he has to find a clinical part to his plans and really let teams worry about us. 

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I think the consideration is whether there is anyone better out there.

And one of the biggest gripes on here is the shit housery enveloping football.

Moral compass time would you prefer Moore who actually sets out to play football the way I think it should be played and we may get promoted OR an Ainsworth type that probably would achieve promotion but would leave you numb from watching it.

The one credit I absolutely would give Moore is that the past season I have enjoyed the majority of matches. Been frustrating at times for sure, but not only was it winning football it was decent pass and move stuff.

Perhaps I have reached that point where getting enjoyment is as key to where we sit in the league. The Championship is OK but to me has been dull as ditch water when I have watched. The number of times on Soccer Saturday the comment is how shit the game is, nothing arising etc.

 

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Never thought I’d say this 5/6 months ago (hence the previous username) but I’d keep Moore.. for the most part it’s actually become enjoyable watching us again and in answer to MKs post above yes I’d rather watch us try and get it down and play than watch a team managed by that Bon jovi loving tramp

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I’d had enough of Moore around Xmas, we had been too soft, boring, and predictable. 
Since the turn of the year, much much better. That first half of the MK game was what we are capable of, it clicked. Brilliant to watch, then I think Pompey game we did it even more. It showed we’d moved forward, we’d have wilted earlier in the season under the pressure, especially when they went in front.

Moore deserves another crack at it, do I think he’s the answer? Not 100% sure on that, however, he’s put himself on a decent footing and a summer of hopefully better signings should see more improvement.

Defensively we have to cut out as many of the needless, brainless moments we have had. Be it mistakes or lapses in concentration. Especially late in games and at set pieces. 
If that gets addressed, we’ll be in a much better place. 
 

I ran a poll on OO twitter which over 800 people responded, and he got a 79% stay backing. So he’s definitely got support.

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I just have a gut feeling that Moore isn't the man to take us forward long term. Having said that can he get us out of league 1? Yes quite possibly, but he needs to learn the mistakes of this season. Give him till Xmas see where we are.......we like getting rid of managers at Christmas 

 

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The one huge issue that has impact Wednesday is short termism - the changes we have made in the past have simply contributed to the problem not solved it 

The definition of madness (ok that may be Baggy Trousers) is doing the same thing again and expecting a different outcome 

We need someone that can work with DC to solve these fundamental issues because until we do we will rock n roll on the big dipper 

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15 hours ago, Hirstys 12th Pint said:

Think in Luongos case might be more where he wants to live in the World as opposed to the club. 

Dunno - he's spent his whole adult life in england - can see him wanting to move south though, i mean, who wouldn't

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I believe Moore deserves to start next season. He can now sign players permanently and has shown he can attract decent quality. Luongo will go, but this might give a chance for dele bashiru to be given a proper run. A midfield of him, Bannan and Byers doesnt seem to bad with Adeniran to come back in.  

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I think DM has earned his keep for next season, but it has to be nothing short of automatic promotion. Anything less, unless he gets us up through the playoffs, then it’s adios mate!

One thing I would like to know a bit more about, is what the actual fuck is happening at board level? Is there any direction coming from the top, because if there is it can’t be very much. I’m not overly interested in the operational side of things at the club (far cry from the DA days I know), but have we even had a statement from DC giving his thoughts about how our season ended and/or where we go from here?

Piss poor if not! 

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To be fair to DC - he’s always readily acceptable nothing is guaranteed in football. He always said we cut our cloth accordingly and have to accommodate a restructure based on league position. Accounts show wages falling and will have done again. Loans are the way forward for most League 1 clubs and we’re no different. Playing good football in front of big crowds should give us an edge to get the better players one hopes.

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On 11/05/2022 at 09:32, mkowlthesexynewversion said:

The one huge issue that has impact Wednesday is short termism - the changes we have made in the past have simply contributed to the problem not solved it 

The definition of madness (ok that may be Baggy Trousers) is doing the same thing again and expecting a different outcome 

We need someone that can work with DC to solve these fundamental issues because until we do we will rock n roll on the big dipper 

Correct.  

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Posted (edited)

Now I’ve calmed down I’m in complete agreement that we have to keep moore. Got a real positive feeling that he will take us up auto next season. That last 20 or more games would have put us top 2 and he finally found his stride all be it slightly too late. 
the target should be champions with 100 points. No less and no murmurs of 2nd or playoffs. 

Edited by 1banana2banana
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Crux is you need to get 90 points to be sure. So 28 wins 6 draws and you could lose 12

19 home wins

9 away wins

3 home draws

3 away draws 

1 home defeat

11 away defeats 

Ok the home wins looks a hard target, but we weren't that far off it 

The away target looks more than achievable if we got cut the stupid late goals 

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Given we only lost 9 last season, only Wigan lost fewer. And 2 of those were to Oxford where we shouldn't have. Plymouth and Sunderland fair enough, Rotherham were more clinical, Wycombe meh, the others Gillingham, Morecambe ?, somebody else 

The killer the 13 draws and how many were snatched from the jaws of victory as opposed to retrieving a losing position.

 

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Posted (edited)

My main concern is a continued lack of a plan B to these "low block" sides that we invariably come unstuck against away from home.....far too many to list from last season.... recruitment has to be spot on...we can't be having another season of huffin n puffin with no end product ...we won't go up if we continue without a plan B or even C....!

Edited by MPB
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1 hour ago, Chelters said:

Didn’t lose to Gillingham but lost at Shrewsbury. 14 points dropped against those two and Lincoln combined. 

cheers Gillingham just felt like a defeat innit but shrewsbury yep remember that now 

Ipswich the bookies favourite to go up

Us second - on the presumption Sunderland get promoted 

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It’s not remotely difficult to think of ways we could add 10 or 12 points to our tally next season, cut out goalkeeping errors, late goals conceded, goals conceded from aerial balls etc.  To be honest, our form since  mid January was good enough for automatic, we just left ourselves too much to do with points dropped before that. 
 

Apart from the obvious, Gregory being the only prolific scorer isn’t really good enough.  A guy with Berahinho’s pedigree getting 8 in 31 in a league where Cole Stockton got 24 playing for a team that nearly went down…nah.

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13 hours ago, owl71 said:

It’s not remotely difficult to think of ways we could add 10 or 12 points to our tally next season, cut out goalkeeping errors, late goals conceded, goals conceded from aerial balls etc.  To be honest, our form since  mid January was good enough for automatic, we just left ourselves too much to do with points dropped before that. 
 

Apart from the obvious, Gregory being the only prolific scorer isn’t really good enough.  A guy with Berahinho’s pedigree getting 8 in 31 in a league where Cole Stockton got 24 playing for a team that nearly went down…nah.

Is there loads of championship interest in that Stockton? Not really looked 

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26 minutes ago, 1banana2banana said:

Is there loads of championship interest in that Stockton? Not really looked 

The only concrete 'rumour' is Bolton have contacted his agent with an offer.

I'd rather have Alfie May but, unlike Stockton, he is attracting a lot of Championship attention. Blackburn have already enquired and Preston and Birmingham look set to follow suit.

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This season was May’s first really prolific season in front of goal, and he’s 29 in July.  Definitely not worth getting into a bidding war over if there’s a few Championship clubs interested.

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The thing about Cole Stockton is, when he was at Hearts, he was absolute dog shit. And I mean absolute dog shit. One of the most incompetent strikers I've ever seen.

Granted, he was much younger then but it's been interesting watching him bang them in these last few seasons.

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, MPB said:

Bin Berahino off....not got it anymore....

If he had he wouldn't be playing in L1.

I thought he was poor at first but he got better, probably bc DM insisted he got physically stronger. Whilst I don't think he's the player he once was I think he could be useful in L1 for the right money and a proper pre season behind him. I don't think he was helped by DM chopping and changing. Although you'd imagine he wouldn't have played much if Windass didn't get injured again when he came back after Christmas. TBH I didn't think Windass did much when he appeared in the last few games, certainly compared to the previous cameo appearances he made. As for Patterson he's worth a squad place bc he's adaptable even if he is like a shire horse at times.

Kamberi is the obvious one to let go, to be replaced by a young Prem loanee or released player or some of the lower league strikers that are looking for a step up. This is the time to really use the size of the fan base etc to attract new blood.

Edited by Tank_Owl2,0
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