mkowl Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 29 minutes ago, KrolMong said: I’ve read some interesting stuff on this, but the starkest comment was on some football podcast I listened to yesterday. The reality is that there is now a precedent set. But it’s what happens next with City and Chelsea - which being clear, will be absolutely nothing. There are two reasons for this, one is that it is multiple charges that both clubs are facing which are going to take several years to sift through and more critically, both sides are being backed by absolutely elite legal teams. The second, and more harrowing reason, is linked to the ESL link from a few years back. Both teams wanted part of it, and because the PL was very soft in there punishment, as soon as the threat of a punishment comes they will play that card again… The Saudi’s and QATAR’s are very much interested in funding and hosting such a competition. What you are actually going to see is those clubs with clout given a bit of free rein, but any ‘lesser’ club found to breach even at a small scale is to be punished. Some clubs will simply be untouchable in all of this. I don't empathise with the Everton fans on the fact they did break the rules. Just like we did. Take the consequences. What I will empathise on is exactly your point above, that there won't be consistency. It happens everywhere, in my world the regulator will go for a sole trader whilst the big firms say the usual contrite shite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skamp Posted December 12, 2023 Share Posted December 12, 2023 Meanwhile, in Wales https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67687142 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoylandOwl Posted December 12, 2023 Share Posted December 12, 2023 22 minutes ago, Skamp said: Meanwhile, in Wales https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67687142 141 points!!! WTF!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowl Posted December 12, 2023 Share Posted December 12, 2023 14 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said: 141 points!!! WTF!? I think you might take those in 1 season chansiri would still think we could make the playoffs mind 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bricat Posted December 12, 2023 Share Posted December 12, 2023 How could they deduct more points than it was possible to achieve? \might as well suspend them for the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skamp Posted December 12, 2023 Share Posted December 12, 2023 That's Wales for you. Spend more than you get. Perhaps they'll ask some English team to bail them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canterburyowl Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 Charged again along with Forest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaconowl Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 Im struggling to see how they get dragged over the coals and the likes of Citeh and Chelski appear untouchable. What am I missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 I guess Chelsea and city never pissed pube head off 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowl Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 The interesting aspect is that the EPL do not have the same rule or set up as the EFL. In other words when we got the punishment the clock was effectively re-set on the finances. Meaning you don't breach over the 3 year rolling period again However FFP or whatever we call it is generally a 2 fold test. It stipulates maximum losses in one season and also over 3 seasons. So the fact is Everton fans appear to be bemoaning the double jeopardy aspect of today's ruling. I would be empathetic to that. However if they have specifically exceeded the losses in the 22/23 season then it seems reasonable to be charged again. I am not sure the details have been stated. Folk questioning FFP again, should it apply ? I think it does get conflated as to how do Man City and Chelsea circumvent it - again a very legitimate argument and it not applying at all. The reason in part is not wanting a Reading scenario as the current example. Also it would fuel player wage inflation - no doubt about that making the EPL and indeed below even less competitive. You also risk a club imploding and it then being a deck of cards if transfer fees are owed etc. Whether the rules are right and consistently applied is one thing, but for me a free for all would leave an even worse outcome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaconowl Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 6 minutes ago, mkowl said: The interesting aspect is that the EPL do not have the same rule or set up as the EFL. In other words when we got the punishment the clock was effectively re-set on the finances. Meaning you don't breach over the 3 year rolling period again However FFP or whatever we call it is generally a 2 fold test. It stipulates maximum losses in one season and also over 3 seasons. So the fact is Everton fans appear to be bemoaning the double jeopardy aspect of today's ruling. I would be empathetic to that. However if they have specifically exceeded the losses in the 22/23 season then it seems reasonable to be charged again. I am not sure the details have been stated. Folk questioning FFP again, should it apply ? I think it does get conflated as to how do Man City and Chelsea circumvent it - again a very legitimate argument and it not applying at all. The reason in part is not wanting a Reading scenario as the current example. Also it would fuel player wage inflation - no doubt about that making the EPL and indeed below even less competitive. You also risk a club imploding and it then being a deck of cards if transfer fees are owed etc. Whether the rules are right and consistently applied is one thing, but for me a free for all would leave an even worse outcome MK, we are in agreement. Your last sentence sums it up for me, lets have some consistency in this matter. But, as the current Reading situation proves, a free for all would potentially cause clubs financially failing even more frequently Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrolMong Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 The irony in all this is that if Everton are punished again, and Forest punished and appeals are unsuccessful, there is a chance that further deductions will come. Which in turn increases the pigs chances of stopping up. What would be funny is that if Forest end up with 10 off, Everton with 20 off, and the pigs still go down! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 The PL have set a date for the Citeh hearing. 31st of February 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirstys 12th Pint Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Everton given 4 points back !! Sandwiches out everyone to celebrate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowl Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 8 minutes ago, Hirstys 12th Pint said: Everton given 4 points back !! Sandwiches out everyone to celebrate. A bit like when ours was reduced - that seems "fair and reasonable". Well I guess if you accept the breach and that a points deduction was appropriate in the first place Sadly I think FFP or whatever it is called is a necessary evil to combat ever increasing inflation on wages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrolMong Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 11 minutes ago, Hirstys 12th Pint said: Everton given 4 points back !! Sandwiches out everyone to celebrate. I’m not going to get too excited yet. I think they have a second charge to now fight which could mean further points. I full expect Wilder and Sean Bean to march to the Houses of Parliament to protest with their Matalan tracksuits on and Umbro trainers off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Man City smiling at this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradowl Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 3 hours ago, Hirstys 12th Pint said: Everton given 4 points back !! Sandwiches out everyone to celebrate. I've just given news to a work colleague who supports blunts as I was eating a cheese sandwich. I've no respect for premier league fans. 😂 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tylluan Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Everton's next case to be heard early April, along with Forest. With the appeals process it might take until the Premier League AGM, four days after the season finishes, to find out who's relegated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowl Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 It is interesting that our own case v the EFL got mentioned. Basically there was a degree of precedent in regulator sanctioning for a similar offence. So I think it was right the sanction was reduced to what ours was reduced to in 2020, very similar in terms of overspend and not really respecting the rules, then trying an accounting dodge to get the losses down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 30 minutes ago, mkowl said: It is interesting ...no its really really not....😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowl Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 23 minutes ago, Andyben said: ...no its really really not....😂 Well I found it interesting but then I find FRS 102 interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 105 man messen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Eric Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 6 hours ago, Tylluan said: Everton's next case to be heard early April, along with Forest. With the appeals process it might take until the Premier League AGM, four days after the season finishes, to find out who's relegated. They won't have the bollocks to relegate someone after the last game of the season, any points deduction from then will be applied from the beginning of next season, Shirley! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reesh Posted February 27 Author Share Posted February 27 11 hours ago, Andyben said: 105 man messen Less stress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tylluan Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 8 hours ago, Fat Eric said: They won't have the bollocks to relegate someone after the last game of the season, any points deduction from then will be applied from the beginning of next season, Shirley! The PL constitution says something like the final league placings have to be voted on and ratified at the AGM. So technically they can move teams around as long as it's voted on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoylandOwl Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 14 hours ago, Fat Eric said: They won't have the bollocks to relegate someone after the last game of the season, any points deduction from then will be applied from the beginning of next season, Shirley! if one of them are in the bottom three, anyway, they’ll be sure to put the nail in the coffin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skamp Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 Further 2 points deducted today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoylandOwl Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 And an appeal will go in, which won’t be heard till after the season…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowl Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 (edited) 1 hour ago, HoylandOwl said: And an appeal will go in, which won’t be heard till after the season…. I mean there would be an amusing scenario (albeit that would require Luton being safe) where the appeals of Forest and Everton determine who gets relegated Cue the legal profession rubbing their hands in glee See the Premier League have placed an advert on the Politico website warning of unintended consequences of regulation. To be fair it would be like Ofwat so do fuck what you want anyway Edited April 8 by mkowl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheExile Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 If they appeal could the punishment be worse? I think only getting 2 deducted second time is a bit of a gift if they can stop up and move on from it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 Everton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 Leicester should get minus 45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaconowl Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 1 hour ago, Andyben said: Leicester should get minus 45 Why are they getting away with it? Either they are guilty or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tylluan Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 3 hours ago, Beaconowl said: Why are they getting away with it? Either they are guilty or not? The Premier League voted at its AGM last summer to introduce new rules to fast-track financial breaches - such as happened with Everton and Forest - but those new rules were introduced after Leicester had been relegated, and so don't apply to them. They're currently going through the old process and will pick up their sanction, if there is to be one, at the beginning of next season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoylandOwl Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 All the while Man City continue to laugh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCraigsOwl Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 1 minute ago, HoylandOwl said: All the while Man City continue to laugh... Man City haven't done anything wrong though. Honest 😇 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 Two clubs funded by illicit sanctioned money from Russia or from th proceeds of heroin trafficking in Greece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tewksbury Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 Just wait till the Americans have the voting majority in the EPL. There will be none of this. They're already after the luxury tax, next will be a soft wage cap based on league TV revenue not individual club income. Then limits on promotion/relegation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 8 minutes ago, Tewksbury said: Just wait till the Americans have the voting majority in the EPL. There will be none of this. They're already after the luxury tax, next will be a soft wage cap based on league TV revenue not individual club income. Then limits on promotion/relegation. annual drafts for player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoylandOwl Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 19 minutes ago, Andyben said: annual drafts for player Way to hustle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tewksbury Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 17 minutes ago, Andyben said: annual drafts for player Can't go that far, as we don't have the college system. They'll just go for making sure that they're all good and making a profit. Going off a league cap with luxury tax could potentially fix football to a certain extent, but it would have to go through the courts and be implemented across Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tylluan Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 2 hours ago, Andyben said: annual drafts for player 1 hour ago, Tewksbury said: Can't go that far, as we don't have the college system. Technically they can if the rise in non club affiliated coaching set ups continues to rise. Young players are already getting scouted and signed by these companies to sell on to clubs so easy to set up a draft around this system. What could happen sooner though is an IPL type draft within transfer windows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellsview Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 I’m just waiting for the 🐷 to go into administration, by which time I hope there’s a mandatory relegation of 10 leagues (20 for them for being DRAWB). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 Everton's administration fears with 777 takeover placed in doubt Ben Rumsby The takeover of Everton by 777 Partners is on knife-edge ahead of a deadline for a £160 million loan repayment that has sparked fears the club could be plunged into administration. With what Telegraph Sport has been told is a cut-off of midnight on Monday US time (Tuesday, 5am BST) looming, a deal had still not been struck over money owed by the club to MSP Capital and businessmen Andy Bell – founder of the investment platform AJ Bell – and George Downing. It emerged last week that US investment firm 777 was seeking an extension to that deadline, talks over which sources subsequently admitted were likely to “go down to the wire”. Those talks were said to be being led by current Everton owner Farhad Moshiri, who was on Monday facing losing control of the club – and the current sale process – unless an agreement was reached, with the loan said to be secured against 51 per cent of his stake. There have been reports those owed money were also eyeing a share of Everton’s new £500 million stadium in lieu of repayment. All this put at risk the takeover by 777, which is also now owed more than £160 million in loans paid to prop up the club after it agreed to buy out Moshiri for £500 million. Club may face further points deduction if loan left unpaid Pulling the plug on funding that will see Everton through to the end of the month would need someone else to step up to avert the threat of administration and a nine-point deduction that could see them relegated after they were docked eight points for breaking financial rules. There are conflicting views over the prospect of insolvency, with one source telling Telegraph Sport Moshiri is committed to preventing the doomsday scenario, either by resuming bankrolling the club himself or finding another buyer. Another source, however, described administration as a “very real possibility”, adding: “There are three or four main scenarios. The first one is the extension is granted but it’s granted with a price attached to it. That could be an additional payment to MSP. It could be equity. It could be more favourable loan terms. “If it isn’t granted then MSP takes the equity and either tries to line up somebody else as a buyer. “The third scenario is probably the administration scenario.” Everton were already facing a wait until the season ends before any takeover by 777, which is scrambling to raise hundreds of millions of pounds to fund the purchase. The latest lengthy delay over a takeover agreement stuck with Moshiri almost seven months ago followed the issuing of an ultimatum by the Premier League, which imposed strict conditions on the proposed purchase by a firm that has faced accusations related to its ability to raise cash and its business practices, which it has repeatedly denied. Those conditions include that it repays the £160 million loan owed by Everton, deposits £60 million into an escrow account for use by the club, converts loans it has itself made into equity, and proves it has access to sufficient funding to complete the construction of a new stadium. The investment fund co-founded by Josh Wander and Steve Pasko is said to have approached a significant number of lenders to help bankroll the purchase, including Blue Owl Capital, a US-based private credit provider. Meanwhile, Everton have formally lodged an appeal against the two-point penalty imposed on the club earlier this month for breaching Premier League financial rules. The club admitted breaching the Premier League’s profitability and sustainability rules (PSR) for permitted losses by £16.6 million for the assessment period ending with the 2022-23 season. The independent commission which imposed the sanction disclosed in the written reasons for its decision that the Premier League had initially sought a five-point penalty. This was reduced to two by the commission, after mitigation was taken into account, notably the fact that the club were being punished twice in the same overlapping period. In February, Everton had a 10-point penalty for an earlier PSR breach reduced to six on appeal. Everton will now be aiming to achieve a further reduction to the two-point penalty via the latest appeal, with a hearing arranged for May 24 at the latest. The Premier League season ends on May 18th, raising the possibility of relegation being decided by an independent commission should Everton finish in the bottom three by one or two points, only to be given those points back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owling_Wolf Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 Blue Owl Capital? 👀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowl Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 4 hours ago, Owling_Wolf said: Blue Owl Capital? 👀 A Palmer scoring against them as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owl4ever1867 Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 9 minutes ago, mkowl said: A Palmer scoring against them as well Part from this Palmer is a special player. Gem of a left foot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reesh Posted April 15 Author Share Posted April 15 2 minutes ago, owl4ever1867 said: Part from this Palmer is a special player. Gem of a left foot. In other breaking news water is wet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowl Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 9 hours ago, owl4ever1867 said: Part from this Palmer is a special player. Gem of a left foot. You probably would struggle to accommodate Foden and Palmer in the same starting 11. More about how you balance the type of player you have, not their talent of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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