Everton

[Reesh]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67448714

[HoylandOwl]

Gives the Blunts a chance of staying up…. Grrr

[Beaconowl]

WOW!! That sort of thing could save the Pigs and/or Luton

[Beaconowl]

Just now, HoylandOwl said:

Gives the Blunts a chance of staying up…. Grrr

Great minds

[Otto_Man]

Only give the pigs a single point advantage 

[Reesh]

Everton's squad have already shown they're 9 points better than the Pigs anyway

[Gamblor]

If you’re going to get a deduction in the PL, this isn’t the worst season to do it. 

[mkowl]

Just printing off the 41 page report 

And yes @Winco there is still an arid spell 

[Andyben]

Just endured that prick Maguire talking about Everton and him blaming stadium development costs.

Which of course are exempted for FFP calculations....😂 

[Reesh]

19 minutes ago, Andyben said:

Just endured that prick Maguire talking about Everton and him blaming stadium development costs.

Which of course are exempted for FFP calculations....😂 

Bloke is thick as fucking mince

 

[Reesh]

3 minutes ago, Snap said:

Would there be a chance of appeal and a reduction to 6 points?

It says in the article they are planning an appeal.

[cheat]

2 minutes ago, Snap said:

I understand that rules are rules and the rule breaker has to be punished, fully get that and the need to get control of football finances. But docking them 10 points effectually relegates them, its 25% of the required points for survival. I just feel for the fans who have bought season tickets in good faith and are now expected to to turn up and watch their team in all probabilities get relegated, I just think it's wrong and the leagues need to get off their fat arses and find alternative ways.

The flip side of that is that they survived relegation last season because they cheated.

[Reesh]

32 minutes ago, Snap said:

I understand that rules are rules and the rule breaker has to be punished, fully get that and the need to get control of football finances. But docking them 10 points effectually relegates them, its 25% of the required points for survival. I just feel for the fans who have bought season tickets in good faith and are now expected to to turn up and watch their team in all probabilities get relegated, I just think it's wrong and the leagues need to get off their fat arses and find alternative ways.

Had they done it March then your point may have some substance but even after the deduction they are 2 points from safety.

[Skamp]

When's Citeh's deduction due then?

[Otto_Man]

Does seem a touch disproportionate they're docked 10 points when Pompey were only docked 9 for going into administration 

[Billysboy]

3 hours ago, Reesh said:

Everton's squad have already shown they're 9 points better than the Pigs anyway

This, Everton even though their shit piss on that bottom 4 over rest of season.

[cheat]

1 hour ago, Snap said:

I just find it wrong to be docking points at all

 

It’s never great to see a league table tarnished by teams with points deducted; but how do you punish in this scenario.

Reading the report, they took a decision to strengthen their team rather than stick to the rules.

Not fair on the sides that stuck to the rules and were relegated surely.

[Andyben]

One was Leeds..

[cheat]

Just now, Andyben said:

One was Leeds..

That changes things.

You’re right @Snap

[mkowl]

I don't recall any empathy when we got a points deduction

[Reesh]

24 minutes ago, Snap said:

Totally agree. They're guilty as charged.

How about stopping the offence before it actually happens? If the club knew they were breaking the rules, which supposedly they must do, then why can't the PL and the EFL and stop them in their tracks by not allowing transfers. The accountants will be along shortly to tell me how that's impossible.

I just don't like the fact that this stuff is creeping into the game more and more. Talk of the whingeing scousers appealing to the PL wanting a game replayed the other week for a bad VAR decision, some even saying there should be a court case.

 

The fact the rules are complete bollocks is the main reason it's impossible to predict.

[Tylluan]

Simon Jordan was talking about how Everton's accounts had been signed off and lodged at Companies House and that it was a 'difference of opinion between accountants'

And all I could think of was didn't we have the stadium sale signed off on our accounts but incorrectly. 

[Reesh]

9 minutes ago, Tylluan said:

Simon Jordan was talking about how Everton's accounts had been signed off and lodged at Companies House and that it was a 'difference of opinion between accountants'

And all I could think of was didn't we have the stadium sale signed off on our accounts but incorrectly. 

Accountants/Auditors are appointed by the club and can be leaned upon to sign off accounts.

 

We've changed accountants since that faux pas, the issue being what we did was correct but actually executed incorrectly by those who should know better.

[Andyben]

4 minutes ago, Reesh said:

accountants

Auditors 

[Otto_Man]

25 minutes ago, Tylluan said:

Simon Jordan was talking about how Everton's accounts had been signed off and lodged at Companies House and that it was a 'difference of opinion between accountants'

And all I could think of was didn't we have the stadium sale signed off on our accounts but incorrectly. 

Simon Jordan who took Palace into admin? Not sure he's the best person to be commenting on financial matters at football clubs 🤣

[Reesh]

2 minutes ago, Otto_Man said:

Simon Jordan who took Palace into admin? Not sure he's the best person to be commenting on financial matters at football clubs 🤣

Loves the Wednesday though.

 

[Otto_Man]

23 minutes ago, Reesh said:

Loves the Wednesday though.

 

Don't, you'll get Nev all excited 😆

[Skamp]

If the points stick, expect the three relegated teams to go after Everton like the 🐷s did with West Ham about Tevez. 

[Reesh]

13 minutes ago, Otto_Man said:

Don't, you'll get Nev all excited 😆

He's openly admitted if he had the cash and knew what he knows now after Palace he'd want us.

[mkowl]

Rock n roll on a Friday night reading the report. Some very interesting accounting concepts on pre planning expenditure on the stadium development. And the fact Everton spent circa 50m on that site before getting planning permission, but wangled that it should not count.

Basically Everton were about 20m over the rolling average but argued that 4 "items" should be excluded. The more random is the player who got arrested and they then sacked, they could have got 10m income if they had sued him. They chose not to but wanted to pretend they could have received it. 

The other damning suggestion is that the 2023 info suggests the trend is not improving.

Anyway our case v the EFL gets an honourable mention, in that a sporting sanction ie points deduction which was determined then sets the precedent for other cases

[Andyben]

12 minutes ago, Skamp said:

If the points stick, expect the three relegated teams to go after Everton like the 🐷s did with West Ham about Tevez. 

Burnley Leeds and Leicester are.

I think they were the final placed relegated team in ea h of the three relevant seasons?

[Andyben]

Just now, mkowl said:

Rock n roll on a Friday night reading the report. Some very interesting accounting concepts on pre planning expenditure on the stadium development. And the fact Everton spent circa 50m on that site before getting planning permission, but wangled that it should not count.

Basically Everton were about 20m over the rolling average but argued that 4 "items" should be excluded. The more random is the player who got arrested and they then sacked, they could have got 10m income if they had sued him. They chose not to but wanted to pretend they could have received it. 

The other damning suggestion is that the 2023 info suggests the trend is not improving.

Anyway our case v the EFL gets an honourable mention, in that a sporting sanction ie points deduction which was determined then sets the precedent for other cases

Gudjonnson for that 15yr old girl 

[mkowl]

Just now, Andyben said:

Burnley Leeds and Leicester are.

I think they were the final placed relegated team in ea h of the three relevant seasons?

Does get referenced in the report. The breach was only identified after the accounts were received on the 1st March 2023 and the PSR calculation on the 2nd March

The EPL actually concede that there would not have been adequate time for due process before the end of the season. 

Over 40000 documents were shared for the hearing !

[mkowl]

The point is its a 3 year average and the covid seasons to June 20 and June 21 are averaged and counted as 1 year.

So you need the accounts to 2019, 2020, 2021 and 2022 to determine this 

So it's really only since March 2023 this was known and the fact this is all done and dusted in 7 months is pretty remarkable in reality 

Evertons mitigations get totally rejected by the EPL. They argue that the transfer levy which is 4% of transfer fees paid, which is then used to fund pension payments by the EPL but any surplus goes to Youth Development, that their share of the surplus made should be deemed Youth Expenditure

[Reesh]

Let's be fucking reyt though the P&S rules are nonsense.

[mkowl]

They also argued that interest paid on loans to fund working capital could be construed as bring incurred on stadium development and thus excluded.

The reality is that the stadium was in the main being funded by interest free loans from Moshri, so the interest actually being paid was simply a cost and rightly included in PSR

The other factor is that Everton had been warned by the EPL about player purchases and the likely impact on PSR, but basically ignored that and did it anyway

No sympathy from me, they had the ability to mitigate this and chose not to. Like us, the rules and indeed how they apply and how PSR is calculated were all known and yet they still followed a course of action 

[mkowl]

3 minutes ago, Reesh said:

Let's be fucking reyt though the P&S rules are nonsense.

I will disagree, what is nonsense is a sport that pays inflated transfer fees, wages that are a ridiculous % of revenues and below Premiership level are businesses built on sand.

One company going pop owning £ms could have a huge domino impact 

I looked at Man City's recent accounts. 

Stadium revenue 79m

Other commercial revenue ie sponsorship about 340m or something around that

[Reesh]

28 minutes ago, mkowl said:

I will disagree, what is nonsense is a sport that pays inflated transfer fees, wages that are a ridiculous % of revenues and below Premiership level are businesses built on sand.

One company going pop owning £ms could have a huge domino impact 

I looked at Man City's recent accounts. 

Stadium revenue 79m

Other commercial revenue ie sponsorship about 340m or something around that

Kev P&S allows clubs with parachute payments huge advantages...hence it is bollocks

[mkowl]

4 minutes ago, Reesh said:

Kev P&S allows clubs with parachute payments huge advantages...hence it is bollocks

Not relevant in the EPL though 

And if you didn't apply them there would it not be worse in the EFL

It is causing an imbalance at Championship level for sure, but allowing unrestricted losses would be even worse in my view in relation to the divide 

 

[HoylandOwl]

8 hours ago, Skamp said:

When's Citeh's deduction due then?

It should be much bigger if they get done. 

[MAL]

28 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said:

It should be much bigger if they get done. 

 

[owl71]

10 point deduction for breaches of financial regulations.  And the six teams who were involved in a failed attempt to form a breakaway league got what punishment exactly?  Everton are a slightly bigger version of us, proper club, good support, perennial underachievers.  Don’t fit in with the future market strategy of globalised football inc.  

[Winco]

18 hours ago, mkowl said:

Just printing off the 41 page report 

And yes @Winco there is still an arid spell 

😂

 

[mkowl]

7 hours ago, HoylandOwl said:

It should be much bigger if they get done. 

The Man City prospective breaches are huge. Their alleged sponsorship money is 5 times the ground revenues and on par with the broadcast revenues. The alleged salary to Mancini paid by a 3rd party so not in the books.

 

[mkowl]

Very similar to the discussions had on here with the stadium sale, forget tactics etc, knowledge of FRS 102 accounting standards being a key skill.

Tbh Everton's justification of their PSR overspend or mitigations to it, is as laughable as the document the Club created for the stadium sale. 

It's why I get annoyed, currently got a client doing a similar re-structure and the lawyer is charging 5k. So basically for the cost of a player sat on his arse a couple of days, our sorry mess could have been avoided.

I get the whole debate about FFP, but I direct the anger at Chansiri et al for presuming this could be brushed aside.

Similarly Everton could have sold a key player to balance their position, but chose to retain him. 

The overall similarity, is that no one questions that the money spent was spent on some right shite on the field 

[TheExile]

All I can see from it all is stagnant competition and clubs still losing a lot of money. Everton have been haunted by this for years just as the EFL stalked us.
 

Everton are a big club historically but not being able to spend money kills them and many others 

[bricat]

I wonder if any more will follow?

[Tank_Owl2,0]

22 hours ago, Reesh said:

Kev P&S allows clubs with parachute payments huge advantages...hence it is bollocks

I agree with this. In what other business do you get a bail / hand out if you fvck up, as per the parachute payments.

To me it a) encourages clubs to live beyond their means and b) for agents and players to ask for stupid wages.

[Tylluan]

I think the PL has played a blinder here. 

No financial penalty and a points deduction, in line with the EFL, that leaves Everton only one game from safety and over half a season to get it back. The PL can also turn to the Government and say look at us keeping our house in order. No need for an independent regulator. 

[KrolMong]

I’ve read some interesting stuff on this, but the starkest comment was on some football podcast I listened to yesterday.

The reality is that there is now a precedent set. But it’s what happens next with City and Chelsea - which being clear, will be absolutely nothing. There are two reasons for this, one is that it is multiple charges that both clubs are facing which are going to take several years to sift through and more critically, both sides are being backed by absolutely elite legal teams.

The second, and more harrowing reason, is linked to the ESL link from a few years back. Both teams wanted part of it, and because the PL was very soft in there punishment, as soon as the threat of a punishment comes they will play that card again… The Saudi’s and QATAR’s are very much interested in funding and hosting such a competition.

What you are actually going to see is those clubs with clout given a bit of free rein, but any ‘lesser’ club found to breach even at a small scale is to be punished.

Some clubs will simply be untouchable in all of this.