Under an embargo?

[HoylandOwl]

Swfc under one according to John Percy for non payment to HMRC

[HappyOwl]

Just when you thought it couldn’t get any worse 😡😡😡

[HoylandOwl]

It’s on the EFL website too

https://www.efl.com/governance/embargoes/

[Beaconowl]

Oh FFS!!! 😣

Points deduction inbound

[EBRA]

17.3 in full…

 

Consequences of a Default Event. Without prejudice to the general position (pursuant to Regulation 44.4) that all registrations must be approved by The League, a Club which is subject to a Default Event shall be subject to a registration embargo such that it shall not be permitted to register any Player with that Club without the prior written consent of The League for the period that the Club is subject to a Default Event.

17.3A Regulation 17.3 will not apply where a Club suffers a Default Event due to the failure to

discharge a COVID PAYE Liability and has entered into a Time to Pay Agreement and is

compliant with the terms of that Time To Pay Agreement. For the avoidance of doubt,

where a Club defaults on the terms of a Time to Pay Agreement, and such default results

in all outstanding amounts becoming due to HMRC immediately, the Club shall remain

subject to a Default Event until such time as the outstanding amounts are paid or included

within any other Time to Pay Agreement.

[EBRA]

1 minute ago, Beaconowl said:

Oh FFS!!! 😣

Points deduction inbound

No

[HoylandOwl]

If it’s paid by January we’ll be fine 

[Beaconowl]

20 minutes ago, EBRA said:

No

Thanks 

[HappyOwl]

9 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said:

If it’s paid by January we’ll be fine 

So what your saying is the total meltdown that is happening on certain social media sites at this very moment needs to calm down 😂😂😂

[Supercockle]

Just now, HappyOwl said:

So what your saying is the total meltdown that is happening on certain social media sites at this very moment needs to calm down 😂😂😂

Basically yes. Let the haters enjoy their Friday though 

[Tank_Owl2,0]

If you don’t have to pay a bill until Jan and it’s not stopping you sign players etc, why would you pay. I’m sure I must be missing a subtlety here, right?

[HappyOwl]

1 minute ago, Tank_Owl2,0 said:

If you don’t have to pay a bill until Jan and it’s not stopping you sign players etc, why would you pay. I’m sure I must be missing a subtlety here, right?

Especially when you’ve just spent a load on paying off a manager and bringing in a new team?

[HappyOwl]

8 minutes ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

Did we pay him off, wasn’t he on a rolling monthly contract? 

Sorry yes I was being a bit flippant all be sorted soon I’m sure. I nearly got carried away on the Social media madness train.

Soz

[Billysboy]

Can someone more knowledgeable educate me on this. If we've got while Jan to pay said bill and we pay it by then, can we then sign players in JTW.

[Reesh]

41 minutes ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

All well and good until the winding up petition comes in. Also what if he can’t pay in January? Same shit different day for the last 5/6 years with Chumpsiri, Percy is right we need new ownership 

As long as we are upto date with HMRC we wouldn't be under an embargo 

[Supercockle]

44 minutes ago, Billysboy said:

Can someone more knowledgeable educate me on this. If we've got while Jan to pay said bill and we pay it by then, can we then sign players in JTW.

Yes. 

[mkowl]

Am I missing the bit about January, where is that said.

The last accounts albeit now way out of date showed a stupidly large, circa 9m debt IIRC.

There was already time to pay arrangements for Covid debt - which should have been cleared by now. So if its that or new tax debts then it is deeply concerning. HMRC are not taking any prisoners at present.

I appreciate there are plenty of Chansiri sympathisers on here, but frankly this is fucking shocking that 11 years after the last nonsense that risk is evident again

Proof that Chansiri is no longer a fit and proper person to run this club 

[Reesh]

2 minutes ago, mkowl said:

Am I missing the bit about January, where is that said.

The last accounts albeit now way out of date showed a stupidly large, circa 9m debt IIRC.

There was already time to pay arrangements for Covid debt - which should have been cleared by now. So if its that or new tax debts then it is deeply concerning. HMRC are not taking any prisoners at present.

I appreciate there are plenty of Chansiri sympathisers on here, but frankly this is fucking shocking that 11 years after the last nonsense that risk is evident again

Proof that Chansiri is no longer a fit and proper person to run this club 

They are still thick as shit mind.

[mkowl]

Just now, Reesh said:

They are still thick as shit mind.

Been out so only just seeing this news so not read anything else 

But there is no defence for this 

And I get bored of some on here being apologists for his actions, blind to the fucking mess that has been created on and off the pitch. 

[EBRA]

It’s depressing .. just hope we get statement from club before Sunday kick off clarify the details of the event .. similar to Luton from 2021.

[Greno]

It seems that we're back to the pre MM days.

I look forward to seeing pics of Boywonder standing outside the court looking short.

[mkowl]

To give some numbers, the last accounts showed a tax debt due less than 1 year of £8.3m. This had moved from long term creditors in the 2021 accounts. Thus I suspect this is VAT as that was permitted to be deferred under the various covid schemes. PAYE generally wasn't.

I don't get the "it will be fine if he pays by January".

For starters we don't know the quantum owed. If he pays it then there is fuck all cash flow for signings anyway 🤷

Not one of the apologists seems concerned that amounts are overdue in the first place. A decently run business as no PAYE debt, no VAT debt etc. Its not good business practice at all to not pay these liabilities when they fall due.

I accept there is no one out there with deep pockets ready to rescue the situation, but more and more the evidence is neither as Chansiri.

The cynical me is now thinking the all rants on social media were engineered to create a fan reaction, to then justify "no more funds" when is it the reality there are "no more funds"

 

[Reesh]

38 minutes ago, mkowl said:

Been out so only just seeing this news so not read anything else 

But there is no defence for this 

And I get bored of some on here being apologists for his actions, blind to the fucking mess that has been created on and off the pitch. 

As I said elsewhere I find this alarming.

 

But HMRC are Still *****

 

[mkowl]

3 minutes ago, EBRA said:

It’s depressing .. just hope we get statement from club before Sunday kick off clarify the details of the event .. similar to Luton from 2021.

The reality is did Chansiri find £8.3m plus enough cash to run day to day operations over the last 12 months.

Seriously and I will get slated for this, as and when season tickets go on sale in December any supporters need to grasp this money is totally unsecured and is simply disappearing into a hole. 

[EBRA]

5 minutes ago, mkowl said:

To give some numbers, the last accounts showed a tax debt due less than 1 year of £8.3m. This had moved from long term creditors in the 2021 accounts. Thus I suspect this is VAT as that was permitted to be deferred under the various covid schemes. PAYE generally wasn't.

I don't get the "it will be fine if he pays by January".

For starters we don't know the quantum owed. If he pays it then there is fuck all cash flow for signings anyway 🤷

Not one of the apologists seems concerned that amounts are overdue in the first place. A decently run business as no PAYE debt, no VAT debt etc. Its not good business practice at all to not pay these liabilities when they fall due.

I accept there is no one out there with deep pockets ready to rescue the situation, but more and more the evidence is neither as Chansiri.

The cynical me is now thinking the all rants on social media were engineered to create a fan reaction, to then justify "no more funds" when is it the reality there are "no more funds"

 

Could it be he’s not paying it and it needs to come from the club cash flow .. I.E. no more extra investment.

[mkowl]

2 minutes ago, Reesh said:

As I said elsewhere I find this alarming.

 

But HMRC are Still *****

 

Yes the collection side is run by people you could happily punch, but genuinely how many of the clients that you work on are in arrears on the PAYE and VAT. 

[EBRA]

2 minutes ago, mkowl said:

The reality is did Chansiri find £8.3m plus enough cash to run day to day operations over the last 12 months.

Seriously and I will get slated for this, as and when season tickets go on sale in December any supporters need to grasp this money is totally unsecured and is simply disappearing into a hole. 

Most my cash goes into hole nowadays to be honest .. blew £300 watching us play at Watford after beer, travel and tickets 

[mkowl]

4 minutes ago, EBRA said:

Could it be he’s not paying it and it needs to come from the club cash flow .. I.E. no more extra investment.

Well it always needed paying and this is old debt.

It really as come to something that the Club is now in a more parlous state financially since the winding up orders 

[EBRA]

7 minutes ago, mkowl said:

Well it always needed paying and this is old debt.

It really as come to something that the Club is now in a more parlous state financially since the winding up orders 

Could be due to King Chulalongkorn Day delaying fund transfers …..

yep am clutching 

[KrolMong]

I’ve been told that a payment that was due this week to HMRC is late hence the embargo. We have 30 days to pay from the point of the late notice - if we fail to pay the embargo is enforced. 

[Beaconowl]

What a massive distraction for everyone before the game against Toytown.

Very disappointing 

[Wollongong Owl]

F**k me at least you can wake up from a nightmare 

[Bellsview]

Just another example of how amateurish we are as a club.

I’ve backed and supported Chansiri right up until he appointed Munoz, and this is a further reason to doubt and question whether he is a fit and proper person to run/own the club.

It’s getting beyond a joke now and even I just wish he’d fuck off, but who out there would pay top dollar and be prepared to take on this shit show and what is fast becoming a total joke of a football club?

[Chelters]

The club only pays two things to HMRC, PAYE/NI and VAT. For it to be VAT due earlier this month it would have been from 31 August quarter. It is entirely possible as that would be linked to the club still using the quarters from the old year end of May. Or it could just be last month’s PAYE. 
Or it could be old deferred amounts as mk points out.

Anyway, this is clearly not a good development. The hope to cling on to is it just a short term thing and clears up over the next couple of weeks.

[Chelters]

Also I think the reason some are talking about January is that no one cares about an embargo until then. Perhaps not realising the potential more serious consequences of all this. 

[Supercockle]

2 minutes ago, Chelters said:

Also I think the reason some are talking about January is that no one cares about an embargo until then. Perhaps not realising the potential more serious consequences of all this. 

That’s where I was coming from. A combination that it’s a short term thing, that will be cleared up in the coming days or weeks and therefore not impact us in January. I’ll wait to see what happens but think it would be wise to make a statement before the game tomorrow, otherwise the action/inaction of DC will overshadow the game, which Rohl and the team absolutely don’t need at this point. 

[mkowl]

9 hours ago, KrolMong said:

I’ve been told that a payment that was due this week to HMRC is late hence the embargo. We have 30 days to pay from the point of the late notice - if we fail to pay the embargo is enforced. 

The point is this is not current debt, HMRC would not be on your case for missing the Sept wages PAYE payment. Probably not even the last VAT quarter.

And for the EFL to move so quickly suggests we are "on watch" 

I don't really give a shit about an embargo, it's more whether Chansiri simply now has limited cash resources. Or is this him showing what he meant by no additional funding - I refuse to use the word investment for this, it is funding to cover trading losses nothing else.

13 years ago now but are we turning full circle, that is my immediate concern

[Chelters]

3 minutes ago, mkowl said:

The point is this is not current debt, HMRC would not be on your case for missing the Sept wages PAYE payment. Probably not even the last VAT quarter.

And for the EFL to move so quickly suggests we are "on watch" 

I don't really give a shit about an embargo, it's more whether Chansiri simply now has limited cash resources. Or is this him showing what he meant by no additional funding - I refuse to use the word investment for this, it is funding to cover trading losses nothing else.

13 years ago now but are we turning full circle, that is my immediate concern

The club has to self report if they miss a payment so it’s not necessarily due to HMRC taking action

[mkowl]

1 minute ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

We’ve 30 days to pay it or it’s likely we’ll see a similar punishment to Wigan who are banned from paying fees for 3 full windows 

I understand this but the reality is if a Club is not paying its debts as they fall due, then whether we can be active in a transfer window seems to be the least of our worries. Indeed I suspect we have fuck all money to spend in the window

[Tylluan]

If this is a late payment then could it have just purely been missed as Dooley was leaving?

If I owned a company and employed a COO then I'd be expecting them to be handling this sort of stuff. 

[mkowl]

Just now, Chelters said:

The club has to self report if they miss a payment so it’s not necessarily due to HMRC taking action

True but do any of us really know the current status of our tax payments. All very reminiscent of 2010 for my liking and is HMRC the next to be on our case ?

The fact the 2022 accounts suggest we owed 8.3m notwithstanding that Chansiri will have funded losses of say 6m last year 

You know as an auditor this is one of the red flags 

[mkowl]

4 minutes ago, Tylluan said:

If this is a late payment then could it have just purely been missed as Dooley was leaving?

If I owned a company and employed a COO then I'd be expecting them to be handling this sort of stuff. 

Clutching at straws you don't forget stuff like this 

[EBRA]

7 minutes ago, Tylluan said:

If this is a late payment then could it have just purely been missed as Dooley was leaving?

If I owned a company and employed a COO then I'd be expecting them to be handling this sort of stuff. 

My feeling Alistair may not have the authority to sign the cheque or use the company credit card .. poor processes at the club which we know is the reality of D.C. management more than malevolence. 

[EBRA]

Just now, mkowl said:

Clutching at straws you don't forget stuff like this 

Are you sure ?? DC processes and decision making delays have been proven poor on multiple occasions. 

[mkowl]

Just now, EBRA said:

Are you sure ?? DC processes and decision making delays have been proven poor on multiple occasions. 

Well if a company the size of SWFC is lacking in such basic controls then there is no hope for us.

If we have defaulted on a payment plan with HMRC, then in theory all remaining instalments are payable on demand. So not one for the "oops I forgot" pile 

[EBRA]

1 minute ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

7 occasions? That’s how many times we’ve been under an embargo in his 8 year tenure, embarrassing incompetence 

Thought this was the 4th?

[EBRA]

Let me be clear … my concern are no less than any other on this forum .. for me I am leaving it to 1pm tmw before I declare serious issues.

the stories being leaked and built upon by journo, podcasts, protest groups etc .. are self perpetuating and self serving for them! Clicks =Cash 

now by 1pm tmw of the club are still stum I’ll happily declare huge problems .. but right now am going to look at rational non alarmist reason to why late payment maybe happening.  

[mkowl]

2 minutes ago, EBRA said:

Thought this was the 4th?

Well that makes it better 🤔

I mean I admire the loyalty to the owner. I fully subscribe to the view that if you actively agitate or plan protests seeking a change of owner then having a credible alternative is part of your obligations

But I really don't get any fan excusing Chansiri's running of the Club

[EBRA]

1 minute ago, mkowl said:

Well that makes it better 🤔

I mean I admire the loyalty to the owner. I fully subscribe to the view that if you actively agitate or plan protests seeking a change of owner then having a credible alternative is part of your obligations

But I really don't get any fan excusing Chansiri's running of the Club

Accuracy is important is it not ? 
as is clarity 

[mkowl]

1 minute ago, EBRA said:

Let me be clear … my concern are no less than any other on this forum .. for me I am leaving it to 1pm tmw before I declare serious issues.

the stories being leaked and built upon by journo, podcasts, protest groups etc .. are self perpetuating and self serving for them! Clicks =Cash 

now by 1pm tmw of the club are still stum I’ll happily declare huge problems .. but right now am going to look at rational non alarmist reason to why late payment maybe happening.  

Let's be clear every Wednesday fan simply wants the Club to be well run off the pitch and reasonably competitive at Championship level on it.

We certainly aren't the latter

And this is more evidence, circumstantial at present, that there could be serious problems arising off it.

Good news is I still own WTID Limited