mkowlthesexynewversion Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 1 hour ago, Tank_Owl2,0 said: This is useful context for this debate about ticket prices. A lot has happened since 2019 and I’m not just talking COVID, but obviously, that along with Brexit, war in Ukraine all have impacted the cost of doing business. Add to that the increasing “competitiveness” in the Championship, it’s not hard to see why DC has increased ticket prices, even if it’s hard to take. Im sure he’s understood it’s a tight rope walk balancing the prices with what people are prepared to pay. I think Reesh and others have also made the point that lower prices don’t turn into higher attendances. The Newcastle game last season was a reasonable example of that, given the opposition etc. I always think about other entertainment tickets and there are plenty of other events that you would pay more than the average ticket prices for Hillsborough. The only other thing all clubs have to worry about and again we’ve discussed it before is the stay at home and watch on the internet option, which could in effect simply be playing into the PL big clubs hands and eventually starving the lower leagues. It fails to address the big fuck off elephant in the room that the only group not suffering financially are the players. We happily discuss whether an extra £5 makes the difference, but it all pales into insignificance really. The fundamental issue is that player wages at Championship level are too high to be sustainable. The shit about redistribution of funds from the Premier League would simply lead to 100% of those funds going to the players and agents. Even the next EFL deal will lead to the same, zero benefit will be given to fans re ticket and related prices. Start with player wages being capped to 60% of football revenues. That is the change that is required 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 Every retained players salary will have increased by 25-30% after promotion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoylandOwl Posted July 9 Author Share Posted July 9 7 minutes ago, mkowlthesexynewversion said: Start with player wages being capped to 60% of football revenues. That is the change that is required If only that was a possibility. In theory it is, but in practice it never will be. The players, the higher up you go, have had more and more power in recent years because there's always someone willing to pay what they ask for (or their agents ask for). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowlthesexynewversion Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 2 hours ago, HoylandOwl said: If only that was a possibility. In theory it is, but in practice it never will be. The players, the higher up you go, have had more and more power in recent years because there's always someone willing to pay what they ask for (or their agents ask for). I know it will never happen, but until it does there will be constant ticket price inflation, TV subscription inflation, merchandise inflation. And interesting overseas owners who throw money at it until they run out and fuck off leaving a mess. That is why the power needs to be redressed by a competent regulator Every other debate just leaves fans arguing either amongst themselves or against rivals I suppose I saw the light a little in that era pre covid. I can almost tie it back to Fletcher coming on as a sub and going off not giving a shit 5 minutes later. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiamOwl Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 1 hour ago, mkowlthesexynewversion said: I know it will never happen, but until it does there will be constant ticket price inflation, TV subscription inflation, merchandise inflation. And interesting overseas owners who throw money at it until they run out and fuck off leaving a mess. That is why the power needs to be redressed by a competent regulator Every other debate just leaves fans arguing either amongst themselves or against rivals I suppose I saw the light a little in that era pre covid. I can almost tie it back to Fletcher coming on as a sub and going off not giving a shit 5 minutes later. Fletcher was the player that flicked the switch for me too MK. Not that it was his fault. I’d had a 3 year season ticket and paid for it over 2, so sort of felt like I’d been for free that last season. I’d to find £500 to go watch Wednesday for the year, and so had 79 others just to pay this bloke for a week. It’s daft really because at 50% or 25% of those reported £40,000 a week wages the imbalance is still clear but it just felt like a step too far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto_Man Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 11 hours ago, Winco said: I’ve bought memberships for he and the lad get a few quid of tickets and I can pick and choose if I wanna go. not arsed about the price if you don’t like don’t go. Simple. nowts cheap nowadays And there we have it... Tickets to see Bruce Springsteen in Hyde Park started at £94 Wanna see Miss Saigon at the Lyceum? It's £60. Wednesday "legends" evening...that's £32.50. Fuck me, even an amateur production costs £30 Fancy the pictures? That's £13. I'd love to go back to the days when my paper round money would easily cover the £3.50 to stand on the Kop. Football hasn't been the working man's game since long before I turned down a Victorian terrace at Meersbrook in the early noughties because I thought £32.5k was too much... Life is expensive and sadly so is football 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowlthesexynewversion Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 7 hours ago, LiamOwl said: Fletcher was the player that flicked the switch for me too MK. Not that it was his fault. I’d had a 3 year season ticket and paid for it over 2, so sort of felt like I’d been for free that last season. I’d to find £500 to go watch Wednesday for the year, and so had 79 others just to pay this bloke for a week. It’s daft really because at 50% or 25% of those reported £40,000 a week wages the imbalance is still clear but it just felt like a step too far. That is the point really, people arguing in favour of category pricing and the additional revenue it generates. But you do the math and that dynamic pricing which causes much angst and potential damage to the fan / club relationship brings in enough to fund one weeks wages for one player. An old mate of mine gave up going to games well over a decade ago for this very reason. I questioned his thought process at that time. I am not quite there even now but in other areas eg gig tickets I have a price limit. When does football become the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoylandOwl Posted July 10 Author Share Posted July 10 49 minutes ago, mkowlthesexynewversion said: That is the point really, people arguing in favour of category pricing and the additional revenue it generates. But you do the math and that dynamic pricing which causes much angst and potential damage to the fan / club relationship brings in enough to fund one weeks wages for one player. An old mate of mine gave up going to games well over a decade ago for this very reason. I questioned his thought process at that time. I am not quite there even now but in other areas eg gig tickets I have a price limit. When does football become the same. I think we’re close to the limit. I’ve never felt as disconnected to football as I do now, it’s consumed my life for so long and I loved it for that. Right now. If it wasn’t for my lads, who still love it, and meeting good people who I’ve known for years at games. I would certainly have packed up and just watch at home… when I can be arsed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owling_Wolf Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 7 hours ago, Otto_Man said: And there we have it... Tickets to see Bruce Springsteen in Hyde Park started at £94 Wanna see Miss Saigon at the Lyceum? It's £60. Wednesday "legends" evening...that's £32.50. Fuck me, even an amateur production costs £30 Fancy the pictures? That's £13. I'd love to go back to the days when my paper round money would easily cover the £3.50 to stand on the Kop. Football hasn't been the working man's game since long before I turned down a Victorian terrace at Meersbrook in the early noughties because I thought £32.5k was too much... Life is expensive and sadly so is football Not all gigs are Springsteen though. I'm going shortly to an all dayer with 10 or 12 bands: £35 basic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80s Owl Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 7 hours ago, Otto_Man said: And there we have it... Tickets to see Bruce Springsteen in Hyde Park started at £94 Wanna see Miss Saigon at the Lyceum? It's £60. Wednesday "legends" evening...that's £32.50. Fuck me, even an amateur production costs £30 Fancy the pictures? That's £13. I'd love to go back to the days when my paper round money would easily cover the £3.50 to stand on the Kop. Football hasn't been the working man's game since long before I turned down a Victorian terrace at Meersbrook in the early noughties because I thought £32.5k was too much... Life is expensive and sadly so is football The thing with this argument is you don't go to watch Bruce Springsteen every other week (or at all in my case) nor the cinema, they are special occasions that you do when you can afford them, football to some with the large investment of time required becomes part of your lifestyle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoylandOwl Posted July 10 Author Share Posted July 10 2 minutes ago, 80s Owl said: The thing with this argument is you don't go to watch Bruce Springsteen every other week (or at all in my case) nor the cinema, they are special occasions that you do when you can afford them, football to some with the large investment of time required becomes part of your lifestyle. There are people that pay a monthly subscription to go to the cinema…. And do go multiple times a month. I don’t. But have considered it in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelinblue Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 Just ask yourself how much of a profit does the club make each season. Based on that should they increase or decrease ticket prices? I think that will give you the answer. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80s Owl Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 37 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said: There are people that pay a monthly subscription to go to the cinema…. And do go multiple times a month. I don’t. But have considered it in the past. The Cineworld card in Sheffield is £16.99 a month, when you consider a ticket for the upcoming Mission Impossible film is nigh on 12 quid it's pretty good value, I'm a big film fan but not sure even I could find two films to watch every month, there's an uplift for IMAX, 4DX but I'm not sure by how much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80s Owl Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 19 minutes ago, Angelinblue said: Just ask yourself how much of a profit does the club make each season. Based on that should they increase or decrease ticket prices? I think that will give you the answer. Surely the club making profit or not shouldn't be out of the fans pockets, teams with half our attendances manage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoylandOwl Posted July 10 Author Share Posted July 10 37 minutes ago, Angelinblue said: Just ask yourself how much of a profit does the club make each season. Based on that should they increase or decrease ticket prices? I think that will give you the answer. But back to MK’s point. Should that profit all come from us because the players are paid what they are and we need to pay for it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowlthesexynewversion Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 30 minutes ago, Angelinblue said: Just ask yourself how much of a profit does the club make each season. Based on that should they increase or decrease ticket prices? I think that will give you the answer. The club makes zero profit. It actually tries to sustain a 13m loss. In every other business bar football then the rationale would be to cut costs because in the end constant price increases will become self defeating. Football gets away with it because the demand curve is pretty inelastic. It benefits from the same reason as why govts tax cigarettes and alcohol. I am always intrigued by the TV deals because with the alternative means of watching how do they continue to make money from subscribers. That seems to have a limit of say 100 quid per month. I pay but once it breaches that I ring up, get a bit knocked off etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowlthesexynewversion Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 2 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said: But back to MK’s point. Should that profit all come from us because the players are paid what they are and we need to pay for it? Revenues as opposed to profit but let's not forget the next largest slug is TV monies which comes from the fans. There is a limit on the latter. I will pay for Sky and the now TNT Sports but Via play, DAZN etc etc no way. And I know the Firestick option is out there but presumably the TV companies see that as a risk they will try to use legal means to stop. The cost side of the equation however rarely gets talked about 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skamp Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 As with a lot of things, the fans know the price of everything but not the value it brings (in terms of players, player wages etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80s Owl Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 15 minutes ago, Skamp said: As with a lot of things, the fans know the price of everything but not the value it brings (in terms of players, player wages etc. I think that remains to be seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirstys 12th Pint Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 Season tickets back on sale. Kop £595 - £25.86 per game Master stroke from DC. Announce crazy Cat A prices that we are never going to use as an incentive to sell season tickets ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80s Owl Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 1 minute ago, Hirstys 12th Pint said: Season tickets back on sale. Kop £595 - £25.86 per game Master stroke from DC. Announce crazy Cat A prices that we are never going to use as an incentive to sell season tickets ! I can fully understand his mission to push people towards ST's but most people who want them will already have them, the rest of us who can't commit to a full season will be punished, this will have an effect moving forward when we have alienated potential future fans/ST holders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBRA Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 MK your points are valid but not relevant as it’s not one club that can turn the tide. We will probably never be that club either under current ownership! However a long term critic of DC as just sorted a face to face with him! Have you consider taking DC up on his word and sitting with him? Very least maybe able to get the auditing job? If not change the whole world of UK football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tylluan Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 8 hours ago, HoylandOwl said: I think we’re close to the limit. I’ve never felt as disconnected to football as I do now, it’s consumed my life for so long and I loved it for that. Right now. If it wasn’t for my lads, who still love it, and meeting good people who I’ve known for years at games. I would certainly have packed up and just watch at home… when I can be arsed. I'm Wednesday through and through but since lockdown I've found myself watching more non league. I've been lucky in that my local team and Wednesday played at home on opposite Saturdays but this season might be different and as I've not got a season ticket due to work commitments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoylandOwl Posted July 10 Author Share Posted July 10 Cat D for Southampton (H) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyOwl Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 Southampton at home first game back in the Championship Category D. Surely the categories are to raise more revenue from the larger numbers of travelling away fans as you can only charge the highest equivalent home ticket? Fed up of all the bitchin and moaning even been called a nob on Twitter by a wannabe famous Sheffield celebrities alta ego 🙄🤦♀️ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 That's gonna shut em up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyOwl Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 8 minutes ago, Andyben said: That's gonna shut em up Don’t think it will to be honest it’s just constant on social media I personally don’t have a problem with any of it probably because I haven’t seen a full financial plan and don’t know how sustainable we are against FFP but it is obvious that hundreds if not thousands of people have and are experts at running a Championship football club under the present regulations. Only thing I’m a bit nervous about is we are a bit slow on the transfer side of things but for all I know it could be all in hand and part of the master plan 🤷♂️🤷♂️ Ask me again at Christmas 😘 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelinblue Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 9 hours ago, HoylandOwl said: But back to MK’s point. Should that profit all come from us because the players are paid what they are and we need to pay for it? So we Want players who can Perform well in this division but pay them the same as Legue 1? Supply and demand my friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 Like I said earlier. Those players still in squad just got a massive wages hike on promotion so even to stand still it's costing us £6m a year more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowlthesexynewversion Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 3 minutes ago, Andyben said: Like I said earlier. Those players still in squad just got a massive wages hike on promotion so even to stand still it's costing us £6m a year more And like I said earlier why football as zero semblance of normality following any business logic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowlthesexynewversion Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 3 hours ago, EBRA said: MK your points are valid but not relevant as it’s not one club that can turn the tide. We will probably never be that club either under current ownership! However a long term critic of DC as just sorted a face to face with him! Have you consider taking DC up on his word and sitting with him? Very least maybe able to get the auditing job? If not change the whole world of UK football. I have prefixed most of my comments that it will never happen in practice It is not aimed at DC - it is a general comment on football as a whole and of course no team can apply this unilaterally. Well it could and be relegated of course My point is that DC has to follow the crowd and spend 80% plus of revenues on direct player and coaching staff wages - maybe more. That is the unsustainable part and why DC has to try every avenue to maximise revenues - but its really putting a sticking plaster over a huge financial wound The equation in football is never considered from the angle of cost management - that is my point - but I am not presuming DC is the one to do that first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 11 minutes ago, mkowlthesexynewversion said: And like I said earlier why football as zero semblance of normality following any business logic Name me any business where getting promoted doesn't mean a pay rise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owling_Wolf Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 22 minutes ago, Andyben said: Name me any business where getting promoted doesn't mean a pay rise Sheffield Wednesday manager / chief coach? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowlthesexynewversion Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 29 minutes ago, Andyben said: Name me any business where getting promoted doesn't mean a pay rise Not sure it goes up 50% though And I suspect in the City of London where it might, it would be out of the underlying profits earned. Not increasing the underlying losses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skamp Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 A packet of fags, 4 pints of beer and a burger must be about the price of a ticket on the Kop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto_Man Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 12 hours ago, 80s Owl said: The thing with this argument is you don't go to watch Bruce Springsteen every other week (or at all in my case) nor the cinema, they are special occasions that you do when you can afford them, football to some with the large investment of time required becomes part of your lifestyle. Not all football matches are expensive, I'll be watching my daughter play for fuck all Saturday, not sure I get your point?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80s Owl Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 2 hours ago, Otto_Man said: Not all football matches are expensive, I'll be watching my daughter play for fuck all Saturday, not sure I get your point?! I didn't think the thread was about "all football matches" tbf. I could probably go and watch the local amateur dramatics societies version of Mission Impossible: Dead Reckoning for 4 quid but it won't be the same as the Tom Cruise one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto_Man Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 (edited) 3 hours ago, Otto_Man said: Not all football matches are expensive, I'll be watching my daughter play for fuck all Saturday, not sure I get your point?! Sorry fella meant to quote whoever it was mentioned the 12 bands playing in a day, no wonder you're confused, I am too and I did it 🙄 Edited July 10 by Otto_Man 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 (edited) 5 hours ago, Andyben said: Name me any business where getting promoted doesn't mean a pay rise I would adopt the performance related reward model. It's not like Liam Palmer is now a supervisor. They've achieved promotion and fair play some coin should come their way. DC then rolls the dice again in championship if he likes, stay up and get whatever bonus, go up way more. But a big eye on financial sustainability. Edited July 11 by Lee Spello Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 (edited) 7 hours ago, Neville Facking Bartos said: @Andyben bit of a general assumption on the bonuses seeing as a good proportion of contracts will have been negotiated whilst in the championship. Not really Contracts tend to have relegation and promotion clauses. Pretty standard since Leeds and other got caught out in the early 00's. How many players in the squad signed their current contract while in the championship? Windass, Byers Palmer Iorfa and Dawson at most?. The others were signed in L1 or renewed in it. Edited July 11 by Andyben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoylandOwl Posted July 11 Author Share Posted July 11 41 minutes ago, Andyben said: Not really Contracts tend to have relegation and promotion clauses. Pretty standard since Leeds and other got caught out in the early 00's. How many players in the squad signed their current contract while in the championship? Windass, Byers Palmer Iorfa and Dawson at most?. The others were signed in L1 or renewed in it. Speaking of those up the M1, apparently most of their players have a 50% pay cut in their deals after relegation, BUT, if the players want to leave the club will let them on loan as long as the loaning club pays the 50% of the wage that Leeds aren’t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 (edited) Bit of a general assumption @HoylandOwl Edited July 11 by Andyben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 Windass, Iorfa & Palmer (plus Brennan) signed new contract in L1, Dawson & Byers in Championship, so two players @Neville Facking Bartos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoylandOwl Posted July 11 Author Share Posted July 11 5 minutes ago, Andyben said: Bit of a general assumption @HoylandOwl Just what I had heard mate. Whether it’s true or not, I don’t know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reesh Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 5 minutes ago, Andyben said: Windass, Iorfa & Palmer (plus Brennan) signed new contract in L1, Dawson & Byers in Championship, so two players @Neville Facking Bartos George Byers signed for us when we were in League One. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 (edited) So you made a general asumption on the squad before posting? https://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/football/sheffield-wednesday/sheffield-wednesday-players-could-be-hit-hard-in-the-pocket-by-relegation-to-league-one-3216297 Edited July 11 by Andyben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owling_Wolf Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 On 09/07/2023 at 13:53, EBRA said: Away fans will suffer as club exact revenge on us. one drawback of the system. Mind we paid £28 for Boro away whilst they all paid £10 once. Thought they all have to charge us same price as an equivalent location stand of their fans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowlthesexynewversion Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 13 minutes ago, Andyben said: So you made a general asumption on the squad before posting? https://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/football/sheffield-wednesday/sheffield-wednesday-players-could-be-hit-hard-in-the-pocket-by-relegation-to-league-one-3216297 66% of a lot is still a lot compared to the income of the fans who are funding 66% of their wages via ticket prices and TV subs So I have no issue their wages returning to Championship levels My issue is that these wages are too high in the first place to be sustainable by continuing to milk the fan base ad infinitum. The fact is Wednesday attempted the glory route, then got dragged into the EFL dispute over FFP and the subsequent points deduction. This impacted the performance on the pitch and the attitude of the players for nearly 2 years, culminating in relegation. Which the fans endured that misery from the stands. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoylandOwl Posted July 12 Author Share Posted July 12 Southampton sponsor subsidising the ticket costs meaning Saints fans travelling will pay £30 not £36 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80s Owl Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 9 hours ago, HoylandOwl said: Southampton sponsor subsidising the ticket costs meaning Saints fans travelling will pay £30 not £36 This is really getting embarrassing now. 😕 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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