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German fans protests paid dividends


Reesh

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20 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said:

The rich will always have a head start over the less so. Naturally.  

I just don't like what the PL has become. 

Why?

Look at Brentford.

2005 we were mocking Martin Allen in Div 3. Now they're an established club wiorth £500m full of international players.

Isn't that the dream?

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21 minutes ago, Andyben said:

Why?

Look at Brentford.

2005 we were mocking Martin Allen in Div 3. Now they're an established club wiorth £500m full of international players.

Isn't that the dream?

Why? Because without investment at ridiculous levels will we ever make a dent in the top 6 of the PL anymore. I'd love success at our club, of course I would but for me, success isn't just staying in the PL. Which it seems like that's the barometer these days. 

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20 minutes ago, Andyben said:

The premier league is like anything else that is considered 'overtly wealthy' it's always unfair right up to the point when you're in it / have got it.

 

I see what you're saying, but as mentioned above .. I don't see success as just making up the numbers. 

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2 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said:

Why? Because without investment at ridiculous levels will we ever make a dent in the top 6 of the PL anymore. I'd love success at our club, of course I would but for me, success isn't just staying in the PL. Which it seems like that's the barometer these days. 

Weve challenged for the top place in two season since the late 1920's. 

We've always just made up the numbers.

I'd rather be battling for 12th in th PL than in Div 2 or 3.

Stop being such  a soppy git 

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Are you happy we were relegated and haven't got back since because it's "pRoPeR FoOtY ' in the  lower leagues?

Would you have hated to stay up in 2000 and never come higher than 7th in the past 23 seasons.

This is the village mentality that's endemic in Sheffield and means we'll never be a city like Leeds or Manchester or have any meaningful success - can't even have a fkin airport. Only big city in Europe not to.

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11 hours ago, Andyben said:

Are you happy we were relegated and haven't got back since because it's "pRoPeR FoOtY ' in the  lower leagues?

Would you have hated to stay up in 2000 and never come higher than 7th in the past 23 seasons.

This is the village mentality that's endemic in Sheffield and means we'll never be a city like Leeds or Manchester or have any meaningful success - can't even have a fkin airport. Only big city in Europe not to.

Not a popular opinion but once you leave Sheffield you grasp what holds it back. 

Said village mentality.

I remember chatting to a business chap 30 plus years ago who had set up a welding supplies company with branches all over the North, and that Sheffield was the toughest to break. Alluded to the fact the 10 bob millionaires and funny handshake crowd kept outsiders out, then not helped by piss poor councillors. 

 

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54 minutes ago, mkowl said:

Not a popular opinion but once you leave Sheffield you grasp what holds it back. 

Said village mentality.

I remember chatting to a business chap 30 plus years ago who had set up a welding supplies company with branches all over the North, and that Sheffield was the toughest to break. Alluded to the fact the 10 bob millionaires and funny handshake crowd kept outsiders out, then not helped by piss poor councillors. 

 

Wodja mean, "then"?

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12 hours ago, HoylandOwl said:

Why? Because without investment at ridiculous levels will we ever make a dent in the top 6 of the PL anymore. I'd love success at our club, of course I would but for me, success isn't just staying in the PL. Which it seems like that's the barometer these days. 

I can remember Dave Richards being castigated in a letter or article in a (printed) fanzine as having no ambition beyond staying in the Prem. Nothing new in football.

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I understand why the fan organizations protested against the first voting in December 2023. It wasn´t transparent , had an unpleasant aftertaste regarding esp. Martin Kind (majority shareholder of Hannover 96) , and of course an investor and possible influence is a difficult situation. So, all in all, this time football succeeded.  Just in general : the soul of football can be lost ( money reigns the world, ), and I´m glad we can still experience football over here as a bit more competitive. Everyone (other than Bayerrn Munich fans) is glad there might be another Bundesliga champion possible than the wealthy Bayern Munich. Everyone wants the "underdog" to win in an impossible fight against Goliath. I personally don´t like what the Pl has become (albeit its success in Europe). Don´t get me wrong , I don´t envy the success but : are fans really that happy what has become of fandom in the big clubs?

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Just now, Owling_Wolf said:

I can remember Dave Richards being castigated in a letter or article in a (printed) fanzine as having no ambition beyond staying in the Prem. Nothing new in football.

That's what I meant further up in the thread, just being in the PL year after year is seen as progress by SOME.  

 

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Just now, HoylandOwl said:

That's what I meant further up in the thread, just being in the PL year after year is seen as progress by SOME.  

 

If you don't thin PL survival is progress compared to losing in Div 3 play off semi finals then you're in need of some form of care order...

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6 minutes ago, atroi said:

I´m glad we can still experience football over here as a bit more competitive.

What's competitive about the Bundesliga? 

Could Bayern ever fall as far as Liverpool and Man Utd have at various times in the past 20 years? 

The PL is massively more competitive than the BL

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10 minutes ago, atroi said:

I understand why the fan organizations protested against the first voting in December 2023. It wasn´t transparent , had an unpleasant aftertaste regarding esp. Martin Kind (majority shareholder of Hannover 96) , and of course an investor and possible influence is a difficult situation. So, all in all, this time football succeeded.  Just in general : the soul of football can be lost ( money reigns the world, ), and I´m glad we can still experience football over here as a bit more competitive. Everyone (other than Bayerrn Munich fans) is glad there might be another Bundesliga champion possible than the wealthy Bayern Munich. Everyone wants the "underdog" to win in an impossible fight against Goliath. I personally don´t like what the Pl has become (albeit its success in Europe). Don´t get me wrong , I don´t envy the success but : are fans really that happy what has become of fandom in the big clubs?

Bayern win the league, rinse and repeat.

 

Only cos the Harry Kane effect is in full flow are Leverkusen remotely in with a chance of upsetting the Rick Parfitt.

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1 hour ago, mkowl said:

Not a popular opinion but once you leave Sheffield you grasp what holds it back. 

Said village mentality.

I remember chatting to a business chap 30 plus years ago who had set up a welding supplies company with branches all over the North, and that Sheffield was the toughest to break. Alluded to the fact the 10 bob millionaires and funny handshake crowd kept outsiders out, then not helped by piss poor councillors. 

 

This mentality spreads to the people as well.  Look at Tramlines for example.  Becomes a 40,000 attendance event and social media is full of those berating it and saying it was better when it was free on Devonshire Green.

It would not happen in Manchester or Leeds.

 

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Just now, Hirstys 12th Pint said:

This mentality spreads to the people as well.  Look at Tramlines for example.  Becomes a 40,000 attendance event and social media is full of those berating it and saying it was better when it was free on Devonshire Green.

It would not happen in Manchester or Leeds.

 

Fucking spackers mate.

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1 hour ago, Reesh said:

A proper village mentality council that is full of self serving *****, has been the same throughout my lifetime.

Nip to Leeds and look around the centre.  The place is buzzing and booming.

This is how Sheffield could have been but it's far too late now to rescue. 

Still stuck believing the 60's mantra of 'Sheffield, a city on the move'. 

On the move alright. It's called a downward spiral.

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The Berties losing every week, being in hock and in a mess when they do go down, that's progress is it? 

*fwiw, if we could do what Burnley did, go up, get the money, go down and go straight back up again, I'd be all for that.  Or a Brentford, where they have a system and if the Manager leaves the new one picks up that system.  But we wouldn't have that, Rohl is a an up and coming manager and at some point someone will take him off us, but we won't continue with his system, DC doesn't have that consistency in him.  

 

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30 minutes ago, BraddersTim said:

The Berties losing every week, being in hock and in a mess when they do go down, that's progress is it?

Yes. Massively so, and becaise we don't have a tenbob skint owner, we'd be investing into the squad in a pragmatic manner

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I think there’s a conflation of “success” and “enjoyment” here. 
 

Of course we’d be more successful by being 10th in the prem every year, but fuck me it’d be boring. Season effectively over in March nearly every year just treading water until the next sniff of a cup quarter or semi final came along. 

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1 minute ago, LiamOwl said:

I think there’s a conflation of “success” and “enjoyment” here. 
 

Of course we’d be more successful by being 10th in the prem every year, but fuck me it’d be boring. Season effectively over in March nearly every year just treading water until the next sniff of a cup quarter or semi final came along. 

It's a success given we won't suffer the likes of Palmer and Bannan anymore!

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5 hours ago, Reesh said:

A proper village mentality council that is full of self serving *****, has been the same throughout my lifetime.

The biggest waste 

Coming up with a great idea about being a proper "City of Sport" 

then demolishing the athletics stadium 

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11 minutes ago, Bronco said:

Unlike Leeds, which had little industry, Sheffield had the stuffing knocked out of its world famous tool firms. Leeds is full of insurance vultures and "financial services" bloodsuckers. How can anyone have pride in that? I was proud of Record, Steadfast, Neill Tools, Marples, Moore and Wright, Stanley, Presto, Osborne and that's not a fraction of the firms that have gone. How can the city recover from such a catastrophe?

Fuck me Dave Mac resurfaces.

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It’s hard to say this out loud. But, I live in a country where all cities are throwing money at the infrastructure. The scale at which Cities change in Poland year or year is quite astonishing - I’m talking almost Middle East levels of investment coming in via the EU and monstrous businesses relocating.

Now, in the last 2 months, I have visited Sheffield. Sorry to say this, but the City centre itself is just a massive slum. The outlying areas are decent, but the centre is horrific. It’s light years behind what you see in places like Manchester and Leeds, and even falling behind some of the larger towns in the area? I spent last week working in London, yes, it’s the capital city, yes, it’s a building site - but it changes every time I visit (which is monthly).

I agree with Reesh about the village mentality, it’s not just the council, but the people too. The two Sheffield clubs will never amount to more than that, but I would take a run in the prem over being a 2nd/3rd division team any day of the week. But we, as a city, don’t have the pull of the teams and cities around us and that extends to billionaire owners who might want a dabble.

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3 hours ago, LiamOwl said:

I think there’s a conflation of “success” and “enjoyment” here. 
 

Of course we’d be more successful by being 10th in the prem every year, but fuck me it’d be boring. Season effectively over in March nearly every year just treading water until the next sniff of a cup quarter or semi final came along. 

Yeah I hate being healthy.

Wish I had a touch of cancer or heart disease to keep me interested 

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3 hours ago, Bronco said:

 

So you are OK with investment from Americans who push for no relegation and promotion, or middle east sport washers? City could have cheated their way to multiple PL titles. Dortmund get 80,000 crowds having won next to nothing for decades.

Yes.

But then again,unlike you, I'm not racist 

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14 minutes ago, KrolMong said:

It’s hard to say this out loud. But, I live in a country where all cities are throwing money at the infrastructure. The scale at which Cities change in Poland year or year is quite astonishing - I’m talking almost Middle East levels of investment coming in via the EU and monstrous businesses relocating.

Now, in the last 2 months, I have visited Sheffield. Sorry to say this, but the City centre itself is just a massive slum. The outlying areas are decent, but the centre is horrific. It’s light years behind what you see in places like Manchester and Leeds, and even falling behind some of the larger towns in the area? I spent last week working in London, yes, it’s the capital city, yes, it’s a building site - but it changes every time I visit (which is monthly).

I agree with Reesh about the village mentality, it’s not just the council, but the people too. The two Sheffield clubs will never amount to more than that, but I would take a run in the prem over being a 2nd/3rd division team any day of the week. But we, as a city, don’t have the pull of the teams and cities around us and that extends to billionaire owners who might want a dabble.

Smaller in size but Barnsley Centre is far superior to Sheffield after the Glassworks project.  

Sheffield as a shopping destination is a complete none entity..  Nightlife (or Saturday Afternoon / Early Evening Life is fairly decent and that is where most of the footfall will come from. 

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20 minutes ago, Bronco said:

I don't see how you interpret my views as racist. I think anyone should be concerned about owners who would favour no relegation and as for sport washing, it seems you don't give a damn where the money comes from. How about tapping some Russian billionaires?

Because you felt the need to inckide people's nationality.

Probably xenophobic as opposed to overt racism 

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3 hours ago, Bronco said:

Unlike Leeds, which had little industry, Sheffield had the stuffing knocked out of its world famous tool firms. Leeds is full of insurance vultures and "financial services" bloodsuckers. How can anyone have pride in that? I was proud of Record, Steadfast, Neill Tools, Marples, Moore and Wright, Stanley, Presto, Osborne and that's not a fraction of the firms that have gone. How can the city recover from such a catastrophe?

The two biggest employers in Sheffield are Aviva and HSBC....but carry on

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1 hour ago, Bronco said:

I would  be fine with German ownership and I have a very high regard for our manager. I mention Americans because their sport is run differently to ours and they are fine with a no relegation set up. In England they can push that line if they have club ownership. I am opposed to anyone who takes a similar position.

Why?

Its not like when you visited East Berlin and  Bochum under Honecker

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4 hours ago, Bronco said:

Unlike Leeds, which had little industry, Sheffield had the stuffing knocked out of its world famous tool firms. Leeds is full of insurance vultures and "financial services" bloodsuckers. How can anyone have pride in that? I was proud of Record, Steadfast, Neill Tools, Marples, Moore and Wright, Stanley, Presto, Osborne and that's not a fraction of the firms that have gone. How can the city recover from such a catastrophe?

What pride in causing toxic pollution to the rivers or perhaps when Hadfields made the national news in 1980 for the riots outside when the new laws on strike action came in. 

The point being you can't have a local economy that works on heritage. And why dismiss the service sector that now creates the vast majority of UK exports 

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I think Bronco has a valid point re. industry we’ve lost.We still need a lot of the products we made but the goods from the far east aren’t fit for purpose by and large.They come half way across the world and end up in a landfill site within a short time. I’m not from Sheffield but lived there for a few years in the 70’s and started watching Wednesday then.I think you do your city a disservice,I always liked it and the people.I’ve worked in Leeds quite a few years and while the city centre might be vibrant overall it’s a dump and I would never live there. It’s also a nightmare driving into.

Came over here from the over site which was starting to get tiresome reading negativity all the time.This is much better.👍

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