HoylandOwl Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 The SWFC accounts are published… https://www.swfc.co.uk/siteassets/pdf-links/july-2023/swfc---accounts-year-ended-31-july-2022.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyOwl Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 Came straight here looking for the truth 😂😂😂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrolMong Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 11 million wage bill, down from 22 million the year before. A 7 million loss, 2.5 million of it being attributed to the stadium rent. The year before 26 million, so DC did a very good job of getting us on a fairly even keel. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank_Owl2,0 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 To me (not an accountant) halving your wage bill seems a fairly decent effort. All without a parachute payment! I haven’t dared to look on stalk but I’m guessing there will be some uninitiated fucktardary going on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reesh Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 Quick look seems reasonable controlling of costs by the club and a good effort to get matters in hand. The accounts for this season will probably be a little due to promotion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelters Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 Some interesting stuff in the post balance sheet events note (ie stuff that has happened since 31 July 2022), including a receipt from the EFL in relation to the bungled disciplinary action. Also seems a good result on commercial income and, as others have said, a significant decrease in wages. No doubt some will make a lot of the rental charge on the stadium but ignore the £15m paid in as part of the stage payments. Overall, other than the fact that in normal business world a £7m loss isn’t great, I would read these as relatively positive. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowlthesexynewversion Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 Chelts - agree with your analysis. One bit I am struggling with is trying to tie up the cashflow statement which says loan to controlling party was repaid by 13m but it has increased overall by 5m 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billysboy Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 Read a comment on stalk saying " remember when we had mk owl to explain all this" 😅 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowlthesexynewversion Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 6 minutes ago, Billysboy said: Read a comment on stalk saying " remember when we had mk owl to explain all this" 😅 Yep just seen that 😄 Infamy infamy they have it informy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelters Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 25 minutes ago, mkowlthesexynewversion said: Chelts - agree with your analysis. One bit I am struggling with is trying to tie up the cashflow statement which says loan to controlling party was repaid by 13m but it has increased overall by 5m 🤔 Yeah me neither. Must be some non-cash transactions affecting it. Or it’s just wrong, which would not be unusual for a cash flow statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowlthesexynewversion Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 Sheffield 3 Limited accounts also filed. The one that owns the stadium. The query on this one is the other creditor > 1 year of 37m The amount of 15m less than one year is the sum due to Sheffield Wednesday Does not say to whom that balance is owed, but also no security either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowlthesexynewversion Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 So on face value look OK, but there is an 8m creditor for PAYE by the looks of. The VAT is shown separately. So a bit of a red flag on that. I am impressed we have put in R & D tax credit claims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowlthesexynewversion Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 5 minutes ago, Chelters said: Yeah me neither. Must be some non-cash transactions affecting it. Or it’s just wrong, which would not be unusual for a cash flow statement. True on the latter. Last year worked OK, it reduced by the cash flow amount near as damn it So a bit confusing, glad it wasn't just me. I presume we play musical chairs somewhat with the inter Co transactions and the loan from DC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBRA Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 29 minutes ago, mkowlthesexynewversion said: So on face value look OK, but there is an 8m creditor for PAYE by the looks of. The VAT is shown separately. So a bit of a red flag on that. I am impressed we have put in R & D tax credit claims. Wasn’t that the company we used during covid to pay wages? Didn’t DC roll it season after? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowlthesexynewversion Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 2 minutes ago, EBRA said: Wasn’t that the company we used during covid to pay wages? Didn’t DC roll it season after? The problem is that the filed accounts don't ever really give the detail that you can properly decipher them. For good reason The PAYE was in creditors > 1 year in the 2021 accounts, and moved to less than 1 year so presumption that was deferred as you could during covid. We could be on a payment plan with them - who knows. It is only a red flag IF we are behind as HMRC have been taking a tougher stance. But these numbers are a year out of date so could all be paid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80s Owl Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 Is the payment of sponsorship money by Eyup shown anywhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBRA Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 5 minutes ago, 80s Owl said: Is the payment of sponsorship money by Eyup shown anywhere? That won’t be for another 2 years 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBRA Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 from stalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowlthesexynewversion Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 6 hours ago, EBRA said: from stalk Proves that players in the Championship are totally overpaid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reesh Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 7 hours ago, 80s Owl said: Is the payment of sponsorship money by Eyup shown anywhere? Why would it be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reesh Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 26 minutes ago, mkowlthesexynewversion said: Proves that players in the Championship are totally overpaid. The 2020 and 2021 years are anomalies due to covid though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowlthesexynewversion Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 9 hours ago, mkowlthesexynewversion said: Chelts - agree with your analysis. One bit I am struggling with is trying to tie up the cashflow statement which says loan to controlling party was repaid by 13m but it has increased overall by 5m 🤔 Wrong to quote my own post but I note our friend Maguire is quoting the repayment of 13m to DC. Without mentioning that the overall loan has gone up by 5m, so an 18m adjustment somewhere. I note the new auditors Sedulo, based in Manchester. Not heard the name before but got a few offices it appears. On Sheff 3, I wish someone would mark satisfied to the historic rolling loans. It gains traction that there are 3 loans of 6m + = 19m secured against the stadium - rather than one rolling facility of 6m + that gets renewed. Saying that the lack of narrative on the other long term creditor of 37m in those accounts is frustrating for us geeks with an abacus. Presume it is DC but its not disclosed as a related party in those accounts. Though it always makes me laugh when folk say it's costing the club money to rent the stadium. It's money going round in a circle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowlthesexynewversion Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 Just now, Reesh said: The 2020 and 2021 years are anomalies due to covid though. Accept that is the case but still the fundamental problem with football - though owners still seem prepared to subsidise it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reesh Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 2 minutes ago, mkowlthesexynewversion said: Wrong to quote my own post but I note our friend Maguire is quoting the repayment of 13m to DC. Without mentioning that the overall loan has gone up by 5m, so an 18m adjustment somewhere. I note the new auditors Sedulo, based in Manchester. Not heard the name before but got a few offices it appears. On Sheff 3, I wish someone would mark satisfied to the historic rolling loans. It gains traction that there are 3 loans of 6m + = 19m secured against the stadium - rather than one rolling facility of 6m + that gets renewed. Saying that the lack of narrative on the other long term creditor of 37m in those accounts is frustrating for us geeks with an abacus. Presume it is DC but its not disclosed as a related party in those accounts. Though it always makes me laugh when folk say it's costing the club money to rent the stadium. It's money going round in a circle Isn't the Sedulo registered office one of those standard London PO boxes you get from companies new start ups you register new Ltds for? I've seen Sedulo on LinkedIn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80s Owl Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Reesh said: Why would it be It won't be in these ones but I wondered if it would show as I've got pigs saying it hasn't been paid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoylandOwl Posted August 1, 2023 Author Share Posted August 1, 2023 Here’s Mr Maguire’s thoughts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 How much do we owe MacQuarie Bank and what percentage of our future income is owed to them? Some ***** choking on their humble pie this week i hope... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reesh Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 1 minute ago, HoylandOwl said: Here’s Mr Maguire’s thoughts Please don't post that ***** shit on here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reesh Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 20 minutes ago, 80s Owl said: It won't be in these ones but I wondered if it would show as I've got pigs saying it hasn't been paid. So why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowlthesexynewversion Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 12 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said: Here’s Mr Maguire’s thoughts Pointed it out to him on twitter the head scratching over why the cash flow says £13m repaid when the loan balance has increased £5m Problem is the fuck wits in our fan base actually believe DC is extracting that money out the club - not that its going round in circles I could blow their fucking minds by saying I bet no money moves at all - some magic accounting journals would do the trick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowlthesexynewversion Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 2 hours ago, Reesh said: Isn't the Sedulo registered office one of those standard London PO boxes you get from companies new start ups you register new Ltds for? I've seen Sedulo on LinkedIn. https://www.sedulo.co.uk/ What I found by the power of google Not sure if they are one of the consolidators ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirstys 12th Pint Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 37 minutes ago, mkowlthesexynewversion said: https://www.sedulo.co.uk/ What I found by the power of google Not sure if they are one of the consolidators ? Are they a set of Hipsters doing our Accounts while sat in a Coffee / Craft Beer Shop whilst nibbling on Olives, Pitta and Hummus ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoylandOwl Posted August 1, 2023 Author Share Posted August 1, 2023 43 minutes ago, mkowlthesexynewversion said: Pointed it out to him on twitter the head scratching over why the cash flow says £13m repaid when the loan balance has increased £5m Problem is the fuck wits in our fan base actually believe DC is extracting that money out the club - not that its going round in circles I could blow their fucking minds by saying I bet no money moves at all - some magic accounting journals would do the trick Those of a certain narrative will always manage to skew facts to fit it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelters Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 27 minutes ago, Hirstys 12th Pint said: Are they a set of Hipsters doing our Accounts while sat in a Coffee / Craft Beer Shop whilst nibbling on Olives, Pitta and Hummus ? It’s the trend these days for accountants to go out of their way to look as little like accountants as possible, describe themselves as business advisors and suchlike. Basically use the word accountant as little as possible. But we all know what we are. ‘You know what you are , you know what you are, boring accountants you know what you are’ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skamp Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 Business Advisor = same work but with bigger fees Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowlthesexynewversion Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 3 hours ago, Hirstys 12th Pint said: Are they a set of Hipsters doing our Accounts while sat in a Coffee / Craft Beer Shop whilst nibbling on Olives, Pitta and Hummus ? Ironically I have bought some pitta breads to have for lunch today As my mates from Hull said at the weekend I am a right southern fanny these days 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoylandOwl Posted August 1, 2023 Author Share Posted August 1, 2023 2 hours ago, mkowlthesexynewversion said: Ironically I have bought some pitta breads to have for lunch today As my mates from Hull said at the weekend I am a right southern fanny these days That’ll be… Raaaaaaaaaaght fanny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BraddersTim Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 5 hours ago, Hirstys 12th Pint said: Are they a set of Hipsters doing our Accounts while sat in a Coffee / Craft Beer Shop whilst nibbling on Olives, Pitta and Hummus ? That sounds like a good way to spend a lunch hour to me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowlthesexynewversion Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 Some expertise from Dr Plumley - an academic at Sheff Uni in The Star. Lecturer in stating the bleeding obvious by the looks of it. And not really grasping that "money" is probably going round in circles here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowlthesexynewversion Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 To explain the latter point and apologies for the geeky nature of this post. But the funds effectively go round in a circle but this can be done as a paper exercise So Sheffield 3 (owns the stadium) "pays" £15m to SWFC for an instalment on the stadium from a notional bank account SWFC pays DC £15m to reduce his directors loan in that company DC armed with this pretend money transfers it on paper into Sheffield 3 Ltds notional bank account The net effect on the notional bank in Sheffield 3 accounts is £15m outgoing £15m incoming Net effect Nil In SWFC £15m incoming 15m outgoing Net effect Nil The impact accounting wise is that DCs loan to SWFC notionally decreases and that in Sheffield 3 increases The rent that is due the other way is a reverse of this transaction but can be accounted for on paper the same way Not saying this is definitively the way it is being accounted for, but its how I would be thinking of doing it. Possible to do this because of the large amounts of real cash has put into SWFC historically Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelters Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 Still don’t get the cash flow statement. The £14m reduction in debtors doesn’t look right but there could be various ins and outs affecting it. I suspect the rent is just being added to the tab so is part of the £5m increase in the balance owed to DC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowlthesexynewversion Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 4 minutes ago, Chelters said: Still don’t get the cash flow statement. The £14m reduction in debtors doesn’t look right but there could be various ins and outs affecting it. I suspect the rent is just being added to the tab so is part of the £5m increase in the balance owed to DC. Auditors giving em an easy ride ! Still don't get the other creditors in Sheffield 3 Based on my geek fest post, I am presuming it's a re-allocation of the DC loan BUT the accounts do not disclose it as a related party Folk not really getting that the security held and reported under Sheffield 3 is for an actual loan in SWFC Limited of 6.5m The fact the charge gets renewed each September but the other charges remain unsatisfied lends some credence to whether its 3 x 6.5m = 19m actually owed But I think it's a rolling facility that they are not marking as satisfied, why would you if monies are still owed - albeit it's been superceded. I just think the Sheffield 3 accounts are lacking some disclosure that would either confirm or deny certain matters, but that may be deliberate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoylandOwl Posted August 1, 2023 Author Share Posted August 1, 2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 There was some third party debt owed since MM which has/had a charge on th ground and then subsequently DCs shares. This was a rolling 1yr facility used for cash flow. I doubt it's been repaid and must still be there. DCs loans are shareholder, not director loans and shouldn't be classed as related party transactions, although the S3 links could be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowlthesexynewversion Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Andyben said: There was some third party debt owed since MM which has/had a charge on th ground and then subsequently DCs shares. This was a rolling 1yr facility used for cash flow. I doubt it's been repaid and must still be there. DCs loans are shareholder, not director loans and shouldn't be classed as related party transactions, although the S3 links could be. They are referred to as controlling party loans in SWFC. Not sure why S3 would be different, but related parties is a bit subjective and clients not great fans of their inclusion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winco Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 Anyone watching love island? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowlthesexynewversion Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 6 minutes ago, Winco said: Anyone watching love island? Bit of possible double entry there 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 11 hours ago, mkowlthesexynewversion said: They are referred to as controlling party loans in SWFC. Not sure why S3 would be different, but related parties is a bit subjective and clients not great fans of their inclusion Controller = Shareholder under standard three tier test. The person who has the ability to remove the board and amend the company's articles of association Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 11 hours ago, Winco said: Anyone watching love island? Did he lose you at 'VAT'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winco Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 49 minutes ago, Andyben said: Did he lose you at 'VAT'? I’m sorry what is this word you speak? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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