One for the accountants

[HoylandOwl]

The SWFC accounts are published…

https://www.swfc.co.uk/siteassets/pdf-links/july-2023/swfc---accounts-year-ended-31-july-2022.pdf

[HappyOwl]

Came straight here looking for the truth 😂😂😂

[KrolMong]

11 million wage bill, down from 22 million the year before.

A 7 million loss, 2.5 million of it being attributed to the stadium rent. The year before 26 million, so DC did a very good job of getting us on a fairly even keel.

[Tank_Owl2,0]

To me (not an accountant) halving your wage bill seems a fairly decent effort. All without a parachute payment!

I haven’t dared to look on stalk but I’m guessing there will be some uninitiated fucktardary going on

[Reesh]

Quick look seems reasonable controlling of costs by the club and a good effort to get matters in hand.

 

The accounts for this season will probably be a little due to promotion.

[Chelters]

Some interesting stuff in the post balance sheet events note (ie stuff that has happened since 31 July 2022), including a receipt from the EFL in relation to the bungled disciplinary action.

Also seems a good result on commercial income and, as others have said, a significant decrease in wages.

No doubt some will make a lot of the rental charge on the stadium but ignore the £15m paid in as part of the stage payments.

Overall, other than the fact that in normal business world a £7m loss isn’t great, I would read these as relatively positive. 

[mkowlthesexynewversion]

Chelts - agree with your analysis. 

One bit I am struggling with is trying to tie up the cashflow statement which says loan to controlling party was repaid by 13m but it has increased overall by 5m 🤔

 

[Billysboy]

Read a comment on stalk saying " remember when we had mk owl to explain all this" 😅

[mkowlthesexynewversion]

6 minutes ago, Billysboy said:

Read a comment on stalk saying " remember when we had mk owl to explain all this" 😅

Yep just seen that 😄

Infamy infamy they have it informy

[Chelters]

25 minutes ago, mkowlthesexynewversion said:

Chelts - agree with your analysis. 

One bit I am struggling with is trying to tie up the cashflow statement which says loan to controlling party was repaid by 13m but it has increased overall by 5m 🤔

 

Yeah me neither. Must be some non-cash transactions affecting it. Or it’s just wrong, which would not be unusual for a cash flow statement. 

[mkowlthesexynewversion]

Sheffield 3 Limited accounts also filed. The one that owns the stadium.

The query on this one is the other creditor > 1 year of 37m 

The amount of 15m less than one year is the sum due to Sheffield Wednesday 

Does not say to whom that balance is owed, but also no security either 

[mkowlthesexynewversion]

So on face value look OK, but there is an 8m creditor for PAYE by the looks of. The VAT is shown separately.

So a bit of a red flag on that.

I am impressed we have put in R & D tax credit claims. 

[mkowlthesexynewversion]

5 minutes ago, Chelters said:

Yeah me neither. Must be some non-cash transactions affecting it. Or it’s just wrong, which would not be unusual for a cash flow statement. 

True on the latter. Last year worked OK, it reduced by the cash flow amount near as damn it

So a bit confusing, glad it wasn't just me. I presume we play musical chairs somewhat with the inter Co transactions and the loan from DC 

 

[EBRA]

29 minutes ago, mkowlthesexynewversion said:

So on face value look OK, but there is an 8m creditor for PAYE by the looks of. The VAT is shown separately.

So a bit of a red flag on that.

I am impressed we have put in R & D tax credit claims. 

Wasn’t that the company we used during covid to pay wages? Didn’t DC roll it season after?

[mkowlthesexynewversion]

2 minutes ago, EBRA said:

Wasn’t that the company we used during covid to pay wages? Didn’t DC roll it season after?

The problem is that the filed accounts don't ever really give the detail that you can properly decipher them. For good reason 

The PAYE was in creditors > 1 year in the 2021 accounts, and moved to less than 1 year so presumption that was deferred as you could during covid. We could be on a payment plan with them - who knows.

It is only a red flag IF we are behind as HMRC have been taking a tougher stance. But these numbers are a year out of date so could all be paid 

[80s Owl]

Is the payment of sponsorship money by Eyup shown anywhere?

[EBRA]

5 minutes ago, 80s Owl said:

Is the payment of sponsorship money by Eyup shown anywhere?

That won’t be for another 2 years

[EBRA]

 

from stalk 

[mkowlthesexynewversion]

6 hours ago, EBRA said:

 

from stalk 

Proves that players in the Championship are totally overpaid. 

[Reesh]

7 hours ago, 80s Owl said:

Is the payment of sponsorship money by Eyup shown anywhere?

Why would it be

[Reesh]

26 minutes ago, mkowlthesexynewversion said:

Proves that players in the Championship are totally overpaid. 

The 2020 and 2021 years are anomalies due to covid though.

[mkowlthesexynewversion]

9 hours ago, mkowlthesexynewversion said:

Chelts - agree with your analysis. 

One bit I am struggling with is trying to tie up the cashflow statement which says loan to controlling party was repaid by 13m but it has increased overall by 5m 🤔

 

Wrong to quote my own post but I note our friend Maguire is quoting the repayment of 13m to DC. Without mentioning that the overall loan has gone up by 5m, so an 18m adjustment somewhere.

I note the new auditors Sedulo, based in Manchester. Not heard the name before but got a few offices it appears. 

On Sheff 3, I wish someone would mark satisfied to the historic rolling loans. It gains traction that there are 3 loans of 6m + = 19m secured against the stadium - rather than one rolling facility of 6m + that gets renewed.

Saying that the lack of narrative on the other long term creditor of 37m in those accounts is frustrating for us geeks with an abacus.

Presume it is DC but its not disclosed as a related party in those accounts.

Though it always makes me laugh when folk say it's costing the club money to rent the stadium. It's money going round in a circle 

[mkowlthesexynewversion]

Just now, Reesh said:

The 2020 and 2021 years are anomalies due to covid though.

Accept that is the case but still the fundamental problem with football - though owners still seem prepared to subsidise it 

 

[Reesh]

2 minutes ago, mkowlthesexynewversion said:

Wrong to quote my own post but I note our friend Maguire is quoting the repayment of 13m to DC. Without mentioning that the overall loan has gone up by 5m, so an 18m adjustment somewhere.

I note the new auditors Sedulo, based in Manchester. Not heard the name before but got a few offices it appears. 

On Sheff 3, I wish someone would mark satisfied to the historic rolling loans. It gains traction that there are 3 loans of 6m + = 19m secured against the stadium - rather than one rolling facility of 6m + that gets renewed.

Saying that the lack of narrative on the other long term creditor of 37m in those accounts is frustrating for us geeks with an abacus.

Presume it is DC but its not disclosed as a related party in those accounts.

Though it always makes me laugh when folk say it's costing the club money to rent the stadium. It's money going round in a circle 

Isn't the Sedulo registered office one of those standard London PO boxes you get from companies new start ups you register new Ltds for?

I've seen Sedulo on LinkedIn.

[80s Owl]

1 hour ago, Reesh said:

Why would it be

It won't be in these ones but I wondered if it would show as I've got pigs saying it hasn't been paid.

[HoylandOwl]

Here’s Mr Maguire’s thoughts

[Andyben]

How much do we owe MacQuarie Bank and what percentage of our future income is owed to them?

Some ***** choking on their humble pie this week i hope...

[Reesh]

1 minute ago, HoylandOwl said:

Here’s Mr Maguire’s thoughts

Please don't post that ***** shit on here

[Reesh]

20 minutes ago, 80s Owl said:

It won't be in these ones but I wondered if it would show as I've got pigs saying it hasn't been paid.

So why?

[mkowlthesexynewversion]

12 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said:

Here’s Mr Maguire’s thoughts

Pointed it out to him on twitter the head scratching over why the cash flow says £13m repaid when the loan balance has increased £5m 

Problem is the fuck wits in our fan base actually believe DC is extracting that money out the club - not that its going round in circles 

I could blow their fucking minds by saying I bet no money moves at all - some magic accounting journals would do the trick 

[mkowlthesexynewversion]

2 hours ago, Reesh said:

Isn't the Sedulo registered office one of those standard London PO boxes you get from companies new start ups you register new Ltds for?

I've seen Sedulo on LinkedIn.

https://www.sedulo.co.uk/

What I found by the power of google 

Not sure if they are one of the consolidators ? 

[Hirstys 12th Pint]

37 minutes ago, mkowlthesexynewversion said:

https://www.sedulo.co.uk/

What I found by the power of google 

Not sure if they are one of the consolidators ? 

Are they a set of Hipsters doing our Accounts while sat in a Coffee / Craft Beer Shop whilst nibbling on Olives, Pitta and Hummus ? 

[HoylandOwl]

43 minutes ago, mkowlthesexynewversion said:

Pointed it out to him on twitter the head scratching over why the cash flow says £13m repaid when the loan balance has increased £5m 

Problem is the fuck wits in our fan base actually believe DC is extracting that money out the club - not that its going round in circles 

I could blow their fucking minds by saying I bet no money moves at all - some magic accounting journals would do the trick 

Those of a certain narrative will always manage to skew facts to fit it. 

[Chelters]

27 minutes ago, Hirstys 12th Pint said:

Are they a set of Hipsters doing our Accounts while sat in a Coffee / Craft Beer Shop whilst nibbling on Olives, Pitta and Hummus ? 

It’s the trend these days for accountants to go out of their way to look as little like accountants as possible, describe themselves as business advisors and suchlike. Basically use the word accountant as little as possible.

But we all know what we are.

‘You know what you are , you know what you are, boring accountants you know what you are’

 

[Skamp]

Business Advisor = same work but with bigger fees

[mkowlthesexynewversion]

3 hours ago, Hirstys 12th Pint said:

Are they a set of Hipsters doing our Accounts while sat in a Coffee / Craft Beer Shop whilst nibbling on Olives, Pitta and Hummus ? 

Ironically I have bought some pitta breads to have for lunch today 

As my mates from Hull said at the weekend I am a right southern fanny these days 

[HoylandOwl]

2 hours ago, mkowlthesexynewversion said:

Ironically I have bought some pitta breads to have for lunch today 

As my mates from Hull said at the weekend I am a right southern fanny these days 

That’ll be…

Raaaaaaaaaaght fanny 

[mkowlthesexynewversion]

Some expertise from Dr Plumley - an academic at Sheff Uni in The Star.

Lecturer in stating the bleeding obvious by the looks of it.

And not really grasping that "money" is probably going round in circles here 

 

[mkowlthesexynewversion]

To explain the latter point and apologies for the geeky nature of this post.

But the funds effectively go round in a circle but this can be done as a paper exercise

So 

Sheffield 3 (owns the stadium) "pays" £15m to SWFC for an instalment on the stadium from a notional bank account

SWFC pays DC £15m to reduce his directors loan in that company

DC armed with this pretend money transfers it on paper into Sheffield 3 Ltds notional bank account 

The net effect on the notional bank in Sheffield 3 accounts is

£15m outgoing

£15m incoming 

Net effect Nil

In SWFC 

£15m incoming

15m outgoing 

Net effect Nil

The impact accounting wise is that DCs loan to SWFC notionally decreases and that in Sheffield 3 increases

The rent that is due the other way is a reverse of this transaction but can be accounted for on paper the same way 

Not saying this is definitively the way it is being accounted for, but its how I would be thinking of doing it.

Possible to do this because of the large amounts of real cash has put into SWFC historically

[Chelters]

Still don’t get the cash flow statement. The £14m reduction in debtors doesn’t look right but there could be various ins and outs affecting it.

I suspect the rent is just being added to the tab so is part of the £5m increase in the balance owed to DC. 

[mkowlthesexynewversion]

4 minutes ago, Chelters said:

Still don’t get the cash flow statement. The £14m reduction in debtors doesn’t look right but there could be various ins and outs affecting it.

I suspect the rent is just being added to the tab so is part of the £5m increase in the balance owed to DC. 

Auditors giving em an easy ride !

Still don't get the other creditors in Sheffield 3 

Based on my geek fest post, I am presuming it's a re-allocation of the DC loan BUT the accounts do not disclose it as a related party

Folk not really getting that the security held and reported under Sheffield 3 is for an actual loan in SWFC Limited of 6.5m

The fact the charge gets renewed each September but the other charges remain unsatisfied lends some credence to whether its 3 x 6.5m = 19m actually owed 

But I think it's a rolling facility that they are not marking as satisfied, why would you if monies are still owed - albeit it's been superceded.

I just think the Sheffield 3 accounts are lacking some disclosure that would either confirm or deny certain matters, but that may be deliberate 

[HoylandOwl]

[Andyben]

There was some third party debt owed since MM which has/had a charge on th ground and then subsequently DCs shares.

This was a rolling 1yr facility used for cash flow.

I doubt it's been repaid and must still be there.

DCs loans are shareholder, not director loans and shouldn't be classed as related party transactions, although the S3 links could be.

[mkowlthesexynewversion]

1 hour ago, Andyben said:

There was some third party debt owed since MM which has/had a charge on th ground and then subsequently DCs shares.

This was a rolling 1yr facility used for cash flow.

I doubt it's been repaid and must still be there.

DCs loans are shareholder, not director loans and shouldn't be classed as related party transactions, although the S3 links could be.

They are referred to as controlling party loans in SWFC.

Not sure why S3 would be different, but related parties is a bit subjective and clients not great fans of their inclusion

[Winco]

Anyone watching love island?

[mkowlthesexynewversion]

6 minutes ago, Winco said:

Anyone watching love island?

Bit of possible double entry there 🤔

[Andyben]

11 hours ago, mkowlthesexynewversion said:

They are referred to as controlling party loans in SWFC.

Not sure why S3 would be different, but related parties is a bit subjective and clients not great fans of their inclusion

Controller = Shareholder under standard three tier test.

The person who has the ability to remove the board and amend the company's articles of association 

[Andyben]

11 hours ago, Winco said:

Anyone watching love island?

Did he lose you at 'VAT'?

[Winco]

49 minutes ago, Andyben said:

Did he lose you at 'VAT'?

I’m sorry what is this word you speak?

[mkowlthesexynewversion]

3 hours ago, Andyben said:

Controller = Shareholder under standard three tier test.

The person who has the ability to remove the board and amend the company's articles of association 

FRS 102 definition is a bit more considering true and fair and all that shizzle

But I wouldn't be passing an exam on the subject thats for sure -