SibonsLeftPeg Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 Got into an argument at work with a Villa lad today, when I said that historically we're bigger than them. I said if you look at our history and stuff beyond the last 10 years, they're nowhere near our level on average. He clearly only started following them once they reached the Prem. Got me thinking, though: how do you rank clubs over the course of their history and where are we in comparison. Not many clubs get 40,000 fans in this day and age. Loads of prem teams shouldn't be there, like your Brightons and Bournemouths. Even Norwiches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laceups Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 Bit early to be at work never mind arguing mate. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reesh Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 And to be talking shit. Villa are bigger. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyben Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 European Cup winning Aston Villa? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBRA Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 2 hours ago, SibonsLeftPeg said: Got me thinking, though: how do you rank clubs over the course of their history and where are we in comparison. Not many clubs get 40,000 fans in this day and age. There’s a few rankings been done over years about how to rate clubs by success - trophies won, combined league positions, points accumulated - and to be fair we always come out in the top 25% of these “ranks” from what I’ve seen. Indeed we fair well on attendance based scorings. As club we maybe able to pull 40k or indeed more. But we’ve never really done 30k averages consistently this side of the war. I think it’s easily achievable though if we have some actual success in the next 5 years, be that a replica of last season in the championship as we storm to promotion or at least the first 2 season in the PL. If we found a sustainable formula that sees us achieve high mid table the odd Europe push b2b in PL over 5 year period then I think 40k plus at home could be easily done in todays football. But Villa have had 30plus averages consistently for decades with odd blip .. plus were over 30k throughout their spell in championship - but they’ve been a PL league team whilst we’ve been bumping about championship and league 1 mediocrity for 23 years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowlthesexynewversion Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 Our stature is a Club that has just been promoted by the skin of its teeth from the 3rd tier of the pyramid Indeed until Wednesday fans stop trying to live on a false sense of entitlement based on history but instead focus on the present we might then progress. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SibonsLeftPeg Posted July 7, 2023 Author Share Posted July 7, 2023 2 hours ago, Laceups said: Bit early to be at work never mind arguing mate. Work nights, mate! 😅 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBRA Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 9 minutes ago, mkowlthesexynewversion said: Our stature is a Club that has just been promoted by the skin of its teeth from the 3rd tier of the pyramid Indeed until Wednesday fans stop trying to live on a false sense of entitlement based on history but instead focus on the present we might then progress. You’re not wrong - my argument why a Luton / Brentford / Bournemouth success model is harder to achieve here is due to the weight of fan “expectations” which I think at times cripples players here. Nothing wrong with high expectations of course but as the years tick on realism needs to kick in! Mind everyone saying consolidation - it’s only the chairman saying play offs 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SibonsLeftPeg Posted July 7, 2023 Author Share Posted July 7, 2023 5 minutes ago, EBRA said: Mind everyone saying consolidation - it’s only the chairman saying play offs 🤣 I'd be at least aiming for top half. Just need investment. Lots of teams come up and then challenge the following year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoylandOwl Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 While in reality, as mentioned they’re precious champions of Europe and we’ve got nowhere near that, I’d always sort of thought of us and Villa as similar sized clubs, until we dropped down to the third tier in the early / mid 00s. That gap between us and them has increased since then, consistently bigger crowds, some big signings, Premier League regulars. If we were to get back up there, and stay there, I think we’d be looked upon by some as that sort of size club. But, we won’t be as big, until we achieve some actual success up there…. (Which I do realise is like waiting to win the lottery without buying a ticket) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SibonsLeftPeg Posted July 7, 2023 Author Share Posted July 7, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said: While in reality, as mentioned they’re precious champions of Europe and we’ve got nowhere near that, I’d always sort of thought of us and Villa as similar sized clubs, until we dropped down to the third tier in the early / mid 00s. That gap between us and them has increased since then, consistently bigger crowds, some big signings, Premier League regulars. If we were to get back up there, and stay there, I think we’d be looked upon by some as that sort of size club. But, we won’t be as big, until we achieve some actual success up there…. (Which I do realise is like waiting to win the lottery without buying a ticket) Yeah. This is basically my view/argument. Traditionally we aren't that far away. Just had a bad decade or two. A few circumstances change and we could be where they are, or they could be where we are. Look at Sunderland. Only takes a bad season or two. Edited July 7, 2023 by SibonsLeftPeg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkowlthesexynewversion Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 22 minutes ago, EBRA said: You’re not wrong - my argument why a Luton / Brentford / Bournemouth success model is harder to achieve here is due to the weight of fan “expectations” which I think at times cripples players here. Nothing wrong with high expectations of course but as the years tick on realism needs to kick in! Mind everyone saying consolidation - it’s only the chairman saying play offs 🤣 My point is perhaps we the fans have to lower expectations. I accept in League 1 that we are always one of the big guns. But in the Championship we aren't and I think 14th or below is where we will finish How far lower than 14th very much depends on the signings made in the next few weeks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul from Wisewood Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 Am sure chansiri will put one up of himself.. oh stature 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bricat Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 There was a table published recently reflecting the status of current English clubs, recording points achieved trophies won ,etc, and we were ranked number 13. Above the sty dwellers and Leeds. I'd settle for that. Cannot remember where Villa were but would be amazed if they were not higher than us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirstys 12th Pint Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 (edited) Possibly includes lower league honours as well. Edited July 7, 2023 by Hirstys 12th Pint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirstys 12th Pint Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCraigsOwl Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 I vaguely remember a study carried out around the 2011/12 season, in which football league clubs (not Prem) were ranked. There were average weightings used for European trophies, attendances, etc., over a time period. Top 2 were Leeds / Forest (not 100% sure of the order, but imagine Forest could only have possibly been top due to the European Cup wins?), with Wednesday 3rd. Villa were top flight at the time, thus not included in that particular study. It would be interesting to see a similar one carried out nowadays. I would imagine Leeds would still be right up there. We may also just about be clinging on somewhere in the top 5?? (depending how much 2 Championship play-offs losses, a relegation plus 2 League One promotions and a play-off loss counts for in the grand scheme of things) Personally, I've always thought of Villa as being bigger than Wednesday, although I've never really taken an in-depth look at their history. I know they won the European Cup back in the day but, that apart, it feels like they've 'only' won the odd League Cup or 4 during my lifetime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80s Owl Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 Try getting into this argument with a pig fan, anything before 2001 doesn't count in their heads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul from Wisewood Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 1 hour ago, Hirstys 12th Pint said: That’s wrong Huddersfield must top that 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirstys 12th Pint Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 In the 90's pre Russian and Oil money and our demise always had Wednesday, Villa, Man City and Chelsea in the same bracket, with probably Villa top of the four. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skamp Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 Pigs 1 title - 4th Division champions. Drinks all round Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto_Man Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 Pretty sure they won the third division title under Wilder, but I know what you mean... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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