The ex-Pat FA Cup replay thread - no speaking in Coventry

[Tewksbury]

20 minutes ago, mkowl said:

The difference under Xisco we never really tried ourselves to get above 0.

I suggested the other day, to survive Wednesday need to go out and win games, Rohl knows draws won't be adequate. I think where he has lost his way is in trying to improve the attacking output, he has created weakness elsewhere.

But the reality is when goals conceded are 4 in 13 minutes, 3 in 8 minutes, that falls squarely on those on the pitch.

I mean our best starting 11 can generally remain competitive for 45 mins, maybe an hour. It however lacks quality to get ahead or stay ahead, the opposition can step up we simply can't.

 

He's lost the balance.

I agree He's trying to go more attacking, but it looks like he's trying to get Bannan and Windass in, then slotting players in around them.

We made great gains with 2 behind Bannan, but when Windass comes into the picture Bannan gets pushed back, meaning Palmer to cover, so on and so forth.

I'm hoping that Röhl was appointed to move us away from this 'senior players names down, then formation, then remainder' method of setting up the side that we've had for a long while now.

While we have it, we'll always have issues as we can never run a 'conventional' formation or tactics so players take an age to bed in, as no other team plays like we do, especially in midfield.

How good a midfielder is at Wednesday is entirely dictated by how good you are at covering for Bannan.

He needs to go back to plan first, formation second, players third and if that means leaving senior players put, no matter who they are, then so be it. It's not working with them, why not try it without.

[HoylandOwl]

16 minutes ago, Tewksbury said:

He's lost the balance.

I agree He's trying to go more attacking, but it looks like he's trying to get Bannan and Windass in, then slotting players in around them.

We made great gains with 2 behind Bannan, but when Windass comes into the picture Bannan gets pushed back, meaning Palmer to cover, so on and so forth.

I'm hoping that Röhl was appointed to move us away from this 'senior players names down, then formation, then remainder' method of setting up the side that we've had for a long while now.

While we have it, we'll always have issues as we can never run a 'conventional' formation or tactics so players take an age to bed in, as no other team plays like we do, especially in midfield.

How good a midfielder is at Wednesday is entirely dictated by how good you are at covering for Bannan.

He needs to go back to plan first, formation second, players third and if that means leaving senior players put, no matter who they are, then so be it. It's not working with them, why not try it without.

Well he won’t be shuffling the pack to get Windass in as he’s out again for a period of time, which we don’t know how long that will be. 

[Tewksbury]

34 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said:

Well he won’t be shuffling the pack to get Windass in as he’s out again for a period of time, which we don’t know how long that will be. 

You never know, we may get a bit of consistency.

We're in a constant cycle with him. Gets injured, cjange it up and get used to playing without him, change it up to get him in, get used to playing with him, and repeat.

Bannan and Windass, although very different players fulfill the same role, a roamer who plays forward of the midfield and links everything up. Windass a lot more forward than Bannan, but the same type of role nonetheless. 

We just aren't good enough as a team to accommodate 2 of these.

[owl4ever1867]

Watched the highlights last night.

The body language of these players is disgusting, even when that 2nd goal went in, they just didn't look bothered in the slightest.

I'd rather we sell the fucking lot of the bottling ***** & draft in those who want to play for Wednesday, footballers now a days have absolutely no idea how fucking lucky they are.

[owl4ever1867]

1 hour ago, HoylandOwl said:

Well he won’t be shuffling the pack to get Windass in as he’s out again for a period of time, which we don’t know how long that will be. 

He can go for me, constantly injured & a greedy twat with the ball to boot.

[Reesh]

3 minutes ago, owl4ever1867 said:

He can go for me, constantly injured & a greedy twat with the ball to boot.

As opposed to Bannan who's greedy and just shit?

[Reesh]

5 minutes ago, owl4ever1867 said:

Watched the highlights last night.

The body language of these players is disgusting, even when that 2nd goal went in, they just didn't look bothered in the slightest.

I'd rather we sell the fucking lot of the bottling ***** & draft in those who want to play for Wednesday, footballers now a days have absolutely no idea how fucking lucky they are.

Here he is, chucking the toys out of the pram again...

[owl4ever1867]

1 minute ago, Reesh said:

Here he is, chucking the toys out of the pram again...

Yeah I am.

You tell me how you think the future is looking for us with the squad that's at Hillsborough at the moment? We get relegated do you seriously think they've got the fight & the bottle to get us out that division? 

Thanks to Xisco we're in a mess that could & probably will take a few years to rebuild & get over.

[Reesh]

4 minutes ago, owl4ever1867 said:

Yeah I am.

You tell me how you think the future is looking for us with the squad that's at Hillsborough at the moment? We get relegated do you seriously think they've got the fight & the bottle to get us out that division? 

Thanks to Xisco we're in a mess that could & probably will take a few years to rebuild & get over.

The squad that played last night isn't what we normally put out, we're in a bad run of form, you were wanking yourself silly the other week when were turning over Hull.

 

[owl4ever1867]

3 minutes ago, Reesh said:

The squad that played last night isn't what we normally put out, we're in a bad run of form, you were wanking yourself silly the other week when were turning over Hull.

 

So the squad we put out on Saturday isn't the normal squad either? They got turned over by 4 goals as well.

The 1 thing we will both agree on - I'm sure, is that Liam Palmer is sub standard division 2 player who shouldn't be anywhere near that centre midfield, be looks like a lost boy.

[KrolMong]

I watched it last night and the two centre halves and two central midfield players were awful.

Coventry spotted that and went right down the middle at us. Diaby and Vaulks were so slow to react, that by the time they’d stepped out, it had created a pocket of space behind them and they were caught in no mans land. Second half. They stayed in, and constantly the two centre halves and two midfield players got in each others way.

That was then compounded by our two centre halves being susceptible to short passes down the sides even with the full backs narrow.

Because the row central midfield players were so deep. We didn’t keep any possession at all and we even had scenarios where wingers were having to come into the centre of midfield to just see the ball.

Last night was a combination of league one players dealing with a very mobile good Championship side, but because of Fridays monster, not really being able to do much else.

[Reesh]

5 minutes ago, owl4ever1867 said:

So the squad we put out on Saturday isn't the normal squad either? They got turned over by 4 goals as well.

The 1 thing we will both agree on - I'm sure, is that Liam Palmer is sub standard division 2 player who shouldn't be anywhere near that centre midfield, be looks like a lost boy.

Saturday was awful, it was going to plan for 70 minutes and ended up capitulating cos there is a distinct lack of mental strength in too many players.

[Owling_Wolf]

1 hour ago, KrolMong said:

I watched it last night and the two centre halves and two central midfield players were awful.

Coventry spotted that and went right down the middle at us. Diaby and Vaulks were so slow to react, that by the time they’d stepped out, it had created a pocket of space behind them and they were caught in no mans land. Second half. They stayed in, and constantly the two centre halves and two midfield players got in each others way.

That was then compounded by our two centre halves being susceptible to short passes down the sides even with the full backs narrow.

Because the row central midfield players were so deep. We didn’t keep any possession at all and we even had scenarios where wingers were having to come into the centre of midfield to just see the ball.

Last night was a combination of league one players dealing with a very mobile good Championship side, but because of Fridays monster, not really being able to do much else.

Ref them playing down the middle: whilst he was on the pitch in the first half Siquiera (?) was very obviously being targeted at right back. They were putting up bombs to land on him and picking up the pieces.  The lad had a mare, gave the ball away leaving us chasing back to our own goal lots, and I was surprised he lasted until half time. The most obvious substitution imaginable, until the dreadful Wilks walked later.  So it certainly wasn't Cov playing it all down the middle. Not whilst the lad was on. 

[HoylandOwl]

 

[EastCraigsOwl]

All this slating of Wilks is a tad harsh. He'd scored in every round of the FA Cup until last night 😉

[owl4ever1867]

35 minutes ago, EastCraigsOwl said:

All this slating of Wilks is a tad harsh. He'd scored in every round of the FA Cup until last night 😉

I'm sure the most of us on here could tbh ECO....

The bloke is a fraud, not as bad as Kachunga but he's close.

Infact I'd rather Andy Booth play instead of that wage stealing twat.

Edited February 7 by owl4ever1867

[HoylandOwl]

1 hour ago, Bronco said:

I acknowledge we scored one goal in those games but it doesn't dent my main point. We have been regularly tanked under Rohl. I would very much like him to succeed but I don't think these recurring heavy defeats can all be blamed on Xisco.

Röhl’s not infallible, he’s learning. While the manager has made some questionable decisions around team selection of late, I don’t lay the blame at his door 

But, the defeats, especially on Saturday came from stupid individual ON PITCH decision making. Overplaying in wrong areas, not being aware of quick free kick/giving the ball back to them to do that. Passing the ball blindly into space. 

although I didn’t see the game last night just watching the highlights show piss weak ‘tackles’. Naivety, from players who have known better. 

[HoylandOwl]

18 minutes ago, Bronco said:

I take your point about player responsibility and on pitch decisions but this absolves Rohl of responsibility for overall performance. Our players are poor in most areas but there should be a way to organise them more effectively as a unit.

I get what you’re saying and to a degree he has done that, as we’ve all seen. 
However, you can’t polish a turd and some of our squad are definitely a turd. Or collection of…. 

[Tewksbury]

24 minutes ago, Bronco said:

I take your point about player responsibility and on pitch decisions but this absolves Rohl of responsibility for overall performance. Our players are poor in most areas but there should be a way to organise them more effectively as a unit.

Discipline and concentration are the biggest issues with this squad. Even under Xisco, look at how we lost. Stupid fouls and switching off with marking.

All from the 'senior' players too.

It stopped for a bit under Röhl but it's creeping back in.

I don't know if it's Chansiri protecting 'his' players over the manager, but for years now almost every senior player has been getting away with shit that would never rub at other clubs.

[star]

4 hours ago, Bronco said:

You've forgotten Milwall

No I haven't

Millwall 

Southampton

Huddersfield

[HoylandOwl]

4 hours ago, Tewksbury said:

Discipline and concentration are the biggest issues with this squad. Even under Xisco, look at how we lost. Stupid fouls and switching off with marking.

All from the 'senior' players too.

It stopped for a bit under Röhl but it's creeping back in.

I don't know if it's Chansiri protecting 'his' players over the manager, but for years now almost every senior player has been getting away with shit that would never rub at other clubs.

I don’t know about switching off. There was no marking IIRC, he tried to bring in the zonal bollocks which made me think no one knew what they were supposed to be doing rather than switching off. 
NOW we’ve got examples of them switching off… 

[Tewksbury]

4 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said:

I don’t know about switching off. There was no marking IIRC, he tried to bring in the zonal bollocks which made me think no one knew what they were supposed to be doing rather than switching off. 
NOW we’ve got examples of them switching off… 

It's been there all the time. Same with discipline. Stupid petty fouls, daft lunges, not tracking.

Even before this season. We did it regularly in League One, just got away with it more often than not.

We have a situation where they generally start OK, then when tired or under pressure just go back to what they have done for the last 2 years.

Triangles on the left wing, passing backwards, slowing down, no press, no effort.

It's like we have 2 different sides in the same game. We're never going to get anywhere while we're still doing it.

[HoylandOwl]

So by that token then…. If you’re saying we’ve done it the last two years…..

Then with three different managers and the same problems with a handful of the same players still involved…. Then it’s the players to blame? 

[Tewksbury]

49 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said:

So by that token then…. If you’re saying we’ve done it the last two years…..

Then with three different managers and the same problems with a handful of the same players still involved…. Then it’s the players to blame? 

Absolutely.

Look where most of the mistakes come from.

Although every single one by a new player gets shouted about, there are relatively few compared to the older players.

The ones who should be dragging the squad up by the scruff of the neck all go missing (or get injured) when we're under pressure.

There is no leadership at this club.

[mkowl]

8 hours ago, Tewksbury said:

Absolutely.

Look where most of the mistakes come from.

Although every single one by a new player gets shouted about, there are relatively few compared to the older players.

The ones who should be dragging the squad up by the scruff of the neck all go missing (or get injured) when we're under pressure.

There is no leadership at this club.

I appreciate there may be alternative views, but I don't think that can be levelled at Bannan out of the older players. There is more an over reliance on him and perhaps a pandering to him at times

[Tewksbury]

33 minutes ago, mkowl said:

I appreciate there may be alternative views, but I don't think that can be levelled at Bannan out of the older players. There is more an over reliance on him and perhaps a pandering to him at times

Workmate, no. Can't fault the bloke.

As for the other bits?

Crumbling under pressure? Check. Look atvthe Hud game, he was jittery, making mistakes and couldn't wait ro get rid of the ball from minute 1. When was the last time that Barry showed up in a big game? As soon as he doesn'tget the space do his rurns and pickhis passes, he disappears.

Lack of Discipline? Check. Stupid fouls, flying in, Dissent. Barry gets a huge amount of bookings, just for stupid shit. He's also a pain ro okay with, he just does whatever he wants. Also gets very lackadaisical when receiving the ball. 

Leadership. Check. Do we even need to go into this? Berates players constantly for mistakes, never lifts the team.

There was a moment at the start of the season that summed it up perfectly.

Musaba missed a sitter. The kid was devastated, on his knees, head in hands.

Barry and Fletcher both walked past, shouted at him, then walked off, leaving him alone in their half. 

And we wonder why our young players look nervous in front of goal?

Some players are far too comfortable and think the team is here for them, not the other way round.

Edited February 8 by Tewksbury

[Andyben]

6 hours ago, Tewksbury said:

Workmate, no. Can't fault the bloke.

As for the other bits?

Crumbling under pressure? Check. Look atvthe Hud game, he was jittery, making mistakes and couldn't wait ro get rid of the ball from minute 1. When was the last time that Barry showed up in a big game? As soon as he doesn'tget the space do his rurns and pickhis passes, he disappears.

Lack of Discipline? Check. Stupid fouls, flying in, Dissent. Barry gets a huge amount of bookings, just for stupid shit. He's also a pain ro okay with, he just does whatever he wants. Also gets very lackadaisical when receiving the ball. 

Leadership. Check. Do we even need to go into this? Berates players constantly for mistakes, never lifts the team.

There was a moment at the start of the season that summed it up perfectly.

Musaba missed a sitter. The kid was devastated, on his knees, head in hands.

Barry and Fletcher both walked past, shouted at him, then walked off, leaving him alone in their half. 

And we wonder why our young players look nervous in front of goal?

Some players are far too comfortable and think the team is here for them, not the other way round.

We backed the wrong #10 when we let FF go and built a team around BB.

Terrible decision.

Simply put. The more important iBB is to the team, the lower down the league we've got 

Edited February 8 by Andyben

[Tewksbury]

5 minutes ago, Andyben said:

We backed the wrong #10 when we let FF go and built a team around BB.

Terrible decision.

Simply put. The more important iBB is to the team, the lower down the league we've got 

He has the cushiest number in football.

It gets mocked all the time, but this club needs a proper reset.

"But we had a clear out"

So why the fuck are half of them still here?

Blame the manager's all you want, but I'll die on the hill that the biggest contributor to the Pulis and Xisco failures was that BB and friends weren't part of their long term plans so they mugged them off and got them sacked.

Same thing will ( and maybe has) happen to Rohl when they find out his plans for next season.

Lose tomorrow, get the kids in and everyone with a contract next season then send the old guard on a 3 month tour of local hospitals and kids charity things. May as well make some fucker happy this season.

[Owling_Wolf]

5 hours ago, Andyben said:

We backed the wrong #10 when we let FF go and built a team around BB.

Terrible decision.

Simply put. The more important iBB is to the team, the lower down the league we've got 

You think we should have built our team around FF?   Mr. Reliable himself?   👀

[Tewksbury]

7 minutes ago, Bronco said:

Interesting viewpoint. Will we ever know if this is happening? One thing is certain: it can't go on for much longer. The players you are referring to are near the end of their playing days.

Their careers are being artificially extended by SWFC.

For the last 2 seasons, the entire team has been based round playing to the strengths of Bannan, Windass and, when he played, Gregory, while covering for their weaknesses. Every other player on the team was a foil for that, so these three looked great. 

We're seeing now that when trying to fit in a more 'normal', modern style they are ranging from average to outright bad. So, Röhl has tweaked the formation ro include them, from the 4231, to this more 424 formation based on Bannan and Qindass linking up. Take Windass out it fell apart. We had most of the players to play it conventionally without them, but they play.

Bannan and Windass have taken as many shots at goal as Gassama, Musaba, Cadamarteri and Smith combined. In a team where the main issue is converting chances, that's an issue. But they play.

Neither player has played particularly well, there have been much better performers, but they play.

As it stands this club is basically a vehicle for Bannan and Windass to so what they do, with a team built around them. Bannan is the best player. Because the team is designed that way. He gets the ball. Wherever we are, whether appropriate or not, he gets the ball. He's taken 150ish set pieces, with no result. (Vaulks has taken roughly the same, with 3 goal contributions). 

We have a handful of players playing not for the team, but for themselves. Bannan, Windass, Palmer, Gregory, probably Marv.

Watch them play. It's like watching the kids football when you have a group of friends playing. Everything to each other. If it's not possible, begrudgingly to someone else. Usually someone double marked. I'm surprised Gassama and Musaba are still walking after some of the hospital passes those two have had. Pol spent 2 games doing star jumps unmarked on the right wing before getting a pass from Palmer.

We are never going ro progress while that lot are still here, but if rumour is to be believed, Bannan and the senior players have too much power, with Chansiri on speed dial.

Hopefully he's seen the light and Röhl is here to change that.

[Kiwi Owl]

1 hour ago, Owling_Wolf said:

You think we should have built our team around FF?   Mr. Reliable himself?   👀

Terrible decision was not taking Fulham or Newcastles £12,000,000 to £15,000,000 offer for him

Sell that little cry baby for a huge amount of profit. That money could have gone on players that would have improved the team like Matt Phillips from QPR, Henri Lansbury from Forest (him and Keiran Lee in a mdifield) John Egan from Gillingham or Shane Duffy from Blackburn and possibly test Hull with a bid for Mo Diame (he went to Newcastle that season).

In the end we give him a three and a half year contract for refusing to go on the team bus because he was "part of the family"

I know he didn't want to leave but Tom Lees would have been replacable if we took Burnleys £5,000,000. John Egan went to Brentford from Gillingham for around £400,000 I think.