Match Thread - Stockport County - Carabao Cup

[Tylluan]

20 minutes ago, KrolMong said:

All Stockport have done is ale housed us behind the full backs, Valentin has really struggled.

Welcome to English football, quite unlike anything you've come up against before. 

Although maybe he's shit himself a bit after the early booking that probably left him worried he'd be picking up another if he touched a Stockport player again

[mkowlthesexynewversion]

At least we have the Pizza Trophy ....

[Tylluan]

Interesting stat on Sky. Stockport have completed 92.3% of their tackles. We've only completed 77.8%

[mkowlthesexynewversion]

Always said Bakinson was alright 

[Beaconowl]

Quite a few games have gone to penalties tonight 

[Laceups]

Good at shoot outs aren’t we 

[Otto_Man]

Never in doubt 

[Lee]

That's a minimum of 2 consecutive wins on pens.

I just have it that we haven't done that well in shootouts in the 40 odd years I've followed the owls.

I did chuckle on Friday how a spot kick may have been reported if scored by a certain saints player....

Pen. N Teller

[Canterburyowl]

So who wants to give us the lowdown on the new players? I appreciate its probably not easy after that performance but any of them look like they are a prospect?

[mkowlthesexynewversion]

Good to get through.

From what folk are saying probably not that deserved BUT it at least gets a partial notch on Xisco's belt, the new players too. 

Good to move forward with a tad more confidence but realising a huge amount of work to do.

Another competitive game to come which I don't think is any bad thing for this squad

[Lee]

 

Well. New players have now had a run. Existing players potentially learning a new system and what the new guys are all about.

It's now a training ground thing. Work on the system and player integration.

Still early doors but a lot of work to be done.

Hull away will give us a fairer insight into where we are I suppose, although there may of course be more ins/outs player wise.

Smith not included could mean that's one transfer on the horizon

Edited August 8, 2023 by Lee
Spello

[Owling_Wolf]

Same team for Saturday then?   

🤣

[NorwichOwl]

Were the penalty saves poor penalties easily saved or good saves by Vasquez?

[EBRA]

Stats show us trying - 17 shots greater possession. 

Mates at the game telling me were awful - I.E all over shop

Listening to I follow said similar tbf

Were a brand new team and formation gelling I don’t think any of us are expecting us to hit the ground running due to slow start though

We’ve fought till end and got an equaliser 

We’ve smashed them on penos with the new keeper saving 2!!

PNE, Hull, Sunderland and the mighty Southampton all beaten by lower opposition 

Edited August 8, 2023 by EBRA

[MAL]

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12936368/sheffield-wednesday-1-1-stockport-4-1-pens-carabao-cup-highlights

[MAL]

20 minutes ago, NorwichOwl said:

Were the penalty saves poor penalties easily saved or good saves by Vasquez?

Have a look above at the link pal

Edited August 8, 2023 by MAL

[Otto_Man]

Looked a few decent saves to be fair

[owl71]

It sounded fairly shit, but let’s be honest, Championship sides fielding B teams full of guys who’ve just been introduced, do have a tendency to get beat in the early rounds of the League Cup by lower league opposition.  We showed some spirit and went through.  

[HoylandOwl]

2 hours ago, Canterburyowl said:

So who wants to give us the lowdown on the new players? I appreciate its probably not easy after that performance but any of them look like they are a prospect?

Just got back about 25 mins ago.

Ill summarise my thoughts in the morning

[mkowlthesexynewversion]

6 hours ago, owl71 said:

It sounded fairly shit, but let’s be honest, Championship sides fielding B teams full of guys who’ve just been introduced, do have a tendency to get beat in the early rounds of the League Cup by lower league opposition.  We showed some spirit and went through.  

I think the latter - showing spirit - is the key for me. It hopefully means the players are believing that the approach Xisco is asking to play they are ok with.

We all know patience is needed, but football does not lend itself to that. 

The starting 11 Saturday will be interesting but also where Xisco has spotted the weak links 

[EastCraigsOwl]

10 hours ago, mkowlthesexynewversion said:

Just thinking out loud really, there has to be a degree of patience for sure, but if we are 5 games in and only 1 point on the board, then the nervousness kicks in.

 

 

You think we'll have as much as one point?!

[Owling_Wolf]

45 minutes ago, EastCraigsOwl said:

You think we'll have as much as one point?!

He's just trying to appear 'edgy', ECO.  😉

[mkowlthesexynewversion]

31 minutes ago, Owling_Wolf said:

He's just trying to appear 'edgy', ECO.  😉

I could start my "be gone by September" series of comments if you like 

[Owling_Wolf]

9 minutes ago, mkowlthesexynewversion said:

I could start my "be gone by September" series of comments if you like 

Depends who you're talking about.  😉

[Owling_Wolf]

That was one of the worst Owls' performances I've ever seen.  Not that it mattered particularly per se, and we all know the particular problems we've faced, and still do.  I said to a mate after the Donny game and we  agreed that we would be at least at the end of August before we became remotely competitive.  Even knowing that, last night was immensely frustrating  for the crowd, the new players and even the promoted players. In passing, credit to Stockport: they were smashing for the first 30 mins or so and their goal was amazing.  Decent support, too. 
Yes, some of the 'newbies' were bloody awful. One or two tried too hard, became  frustrated that nothing they tried came off, maybe got booked through that.  One appeared to become scared and seemed to 'disappear' on the pitch.  Others had mixed fortunes: one emerged looking a decent player whilst his mate got 'mixed reviews'.  Overall it's massively too early to be judging new players, making your (almost or actual) debut along with about six others isn't how it's normally done for a good reason. We've got no option.  And it might get worse before it gets better. Watch this space, though two or three had absolute nightmares last night.
Obviously those new lads needed some regulars to provide a stable framework but - definitely through trying too hard - even they did shocking things at times. I thought it was Reece James' brother in the 1st half!  
Anyway, no point moaning: somehow we got through and now have a 2nd  game to experiment in. 
 

[Owling_Wolf]

Keeper hardly had a save to make but his 'sweeper keepering' was pretty good.  Worried me once when we had a corner and he was stood in the centre circle! It must have been the stuff of dreams for him, having the chance to be the penalty saving hero. Good on him.

I can't remember the last time I saw a keeper stay where he was for one straight down the middle: had he not stopped it, it would have hit him in the mush. The other save was a good 'un.   We've now got two penalty savers!

Edited August 9, 2023 by Owling_Wolf

[HoylandOwl]

Right... Looking back to last night.

Initially, it seemed we might be ok, few confident passes, fizzed into feet. THEN... It all changed just before they scored and it stayed that way until about 75 mins.

The formation and style. 4-4-2, which was 4-2-4 at times, didn't work. Or should I say, we had the same traits as we've had in the other games. Slow passing, taking a touch too many (or 3) before releasing the ball. It was RIDICULOUSLY frustrating. The gaps at times between the midfield 2 of Bannan and Vaulks and the front 2 was crazy. There was a few times where the ball dropped in the massive gap and Stockport just said, thanks, and took over. With some nice passing and movement, they exploited the acre of space and attacked us, especially in the channels, with James being the target for most of their attacks and it worked. A LOT. James was not good at all last night, Vaulks too. Both were way off the mark.

Anyway... 

The new players. 

Vasquez. Of course he'll get the plaudits for 2 penalty saves, and yes, I think he should. The first one I thought was quite brave in the sense he stood still and waited for Madden to hit it and his reactions were quick to save above his head. Then the second one was 'a good height for the keeper' but, he showed strong hands to palm it away. During the game. He had good feet, was very comfortable with the ball and had the look of an outfield player. He didn't really have that much to do with his hands. So that is still to be judged. But he seemed to be relaxed and one to watch. 

Diaby. The big man. He cuts an imposing figure that's for sure and he's quick. He is like a bigger Iorfa, in terms of stature. Likes a tackle, likes a battle, ... He's was a little keen at times to get to the ball first, even when it was unlikely he could. Now, of course we want a player to fight to win the ball, I'm not saying that is a bad thing, but his decision making was erratic from time to time. There was one incident where the ball bounced up towards his man who he was marking, which Diaby was behind, jockeying and instead of continuing to do so, he tried to head the ball over the shoulder of his opponent which allowed their man to roll him and get away. Fair play to Bambi though, he didn't leave it be and chased back to stop the attack. There's a very solid defender in there but there maybe a rick or too as well. 

Di'Shon Bernard. The pick of the 'full debutants' for me. Calm in possession, reads the game well, decent feet. You can see why someone like Man Ure would appreciate him. He's not afraid to get his head up when he has the ball at his feet. This lad maybe quite a find. 

Valentin. The warm up pre game seemed to be a precursor for what was to come with Pol. There was clear communication issues between him, and the others. With Bannan and Vaulks both having to point out what was expected of him on a few occasions. And it happened in the game too a few times. He was hampered by an early yellow card for kicking the ball away which clearly affected him, he got caught out a few times positionally in and out of possession. He looked nervous, or still adjusting to English football as he was outmuscled once too. Needs time.

Fletcher. He was a willing runner, but didn't really do enough for me. On last night only, I can see why fans at other clubs consider him as frustrating at times. But, again, we're  a couple of games in. 

Delgado. This lad can play, there were times when his runs weren't timed right or on many occasions weren't seen because he'd gone for the space in behind and we just played the 5 yard ball without looking up. He's a clever player and I can see why Xisco has commented he can play in a few positions. He's certainly got it between his ears that's for sure. Reminds me a bit of Kieran Lee in that he's got the knack of ghosting into places unnoticed and largely looks after the ball. 

Musaba. This lad is going to be an enigma. Like JJ was. Clearly likes to run at folks, but ran down blind alleys or into defenders. But it wasn't his best game. Had more of an impact in the Southampton game when he came on.

[HoylandOwl]

Wednesday's match report.

 

[Andyben]

Querida Xisco, no puedes jugar a Bannan en dos. Amo a Andyben

Edited August 9, 2023 by Andyben

[HoylandOwl]

2 minutes ago, Andyben said:

Querida Xisco, no puedes jugar a Bannan en dos. Amo a Andyben

🤣

[KrolMong]

I am struggling to see any form of strategy or pattern to our play, from pre-season up to last night. To delve further into it, what I would expect is a style to be visible from the first pre season game, and us to keep working at it until it starts to click. Yes, it takes the players time to adapt, and some may not, but that’s fine.

I’ve simply not seen that. I don’t what Munoz is trying to do. We’ve played a mish mash of systems, we’ve ended up banging it back to front, we’ve ended up with forward players completely isolated and not touching the ball. I’d even say that at times we look uncoached.

I know it’s early days, but alarm bells are ringing.

[HoylandOwl]

Just now, KrolMong said:

I am struggling to see any form of strategy or pattern to our play, from pre-season up to last night. To delve further into it, what I would expect is a style to be visible from the first pre season game, and us to keep working at it until it starts to click. Yes, it takes the players time to adapt, and some may not, but that’s fine.

I’ve simply not seen that. I don’t what Munoz is trying to do. We’ve played a mish mash of systems, we’ve ended up banging it back to front, we’ve ended up with forward players completely isolated and not touching the ball. I’d even say that at times we look uncoached.

I know it’s early days, but alarm bells are ringing.

I know what you mean. The stuff we're 'trying' is all slow, predictable, leaving huge gaps in the middle of the pitch and as you say, isolating forwards. It only stepped up when we went quicker, played the percentage balls, almost played like they did, went into the channels. It brought a little urgency from players, almost like they stepped up when doing something familiar in that last 15 mins or so. 

[HoylandOwl]

Pato was excellent when he came on last night, I must say. Drove the team forward, showed a real energy and desire. Gregory too, was worthy of the shirt for very little reward. There were a few decent individual performances but it didn't reflect a decent team performance in the slightest. 

[Andyben]

10 minutes ago, KrolMong said:

I am struggling to see any form of strategy or pattern to our play, from pre-season up to last night. To delve further into it, what I would expect is a style to be visible from the first pre season game, and us to keep working at it until it starts to click. Yes, it takes the players time to adapt, and some may not, but that’s fine.

I’ve simply not seen that. I don’t what Munoz is trying to do. We’ve played a mish mash of systems, we’ve ended up banging it back to front, we’ve ended up with forward players completely isolated and not touching the ball. I’d even say that at times we look uncoached.

I know it’s early days, but alarm bells are ringing.

Hate to sound like a stuck record, but perhaps the problem lies in Central midfield?

Not moving ball forward fast enough, not providing any support to the four forwards, isolating one another etc.

You know, like every time it's been tried in past 7 seasons?

[HoylandOwl]

Just now, Andyben said:

Hate to sound like a stuck record, but perhaps the problem lies in Central midfield?

Not moving ball forward fast enough, not providing any support to the four forwards, isolating one another etc.

You know, like every time it's been tried in past 7 seasons?

The thing is last night re being slow in midfield, it was weird, it was like Bannan had been told not to switch it, and play through the thirds. There were times when Delgado in particular was clear, and one occasion I saw Bannan look up, see him but play the simple ball rather than clip it in behind which we've seen SO many times in the past. 

[KrolMong]

7 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said:

I know what you mean. The stuff we're 'trying' is all slow, predictable, leaving huge gaps in the middle of the pitch and as you say, isolating forwards. It only stepped up when we went quicker, played the percentage balls, almost played like they did, went into the channels. It brought a little urgency from players, almost like they stepped up when doing something familiar in that last 15 mins or so. 

I’ll tell you what really scared me last night, and also last Friday and in pre-season. The lack of mobility and athleticism beyond the two centre halves and the winger. Southampton were several gears quicker than us, Stockport were a few gears quicker.

As it stands right now, most of the Championship will outrun us both in terms of distance and pace. What really worries me is that I see two very easy ways of beating us. If you are blessed with footballers, you’ll pass around us and through us, we aren’t mobile enough to stop it. If you are not blessed with footballers, but have mobility, you’ll run over the top of us, and pin us, because teams with athletic midfield players, forwards and wide players will just keep getting beyond us.

[HoylandOwl]

The Stockport manager's view on the result.

[HoylandOwl]

Why Wilks and Johnson didn't play....

Looks like the writing is on the wall for Neymarv.

[Owling_Wolf]

21 minutes ago, Andyben said:

Querida Xisco, no puedes jugar a Bannan en dos. Amo a Andyben

The Song Remains the Same.

[KrolMong]

2 minutes ago, Andyben said:

Hate to sound like a stuck record, but perhaps the problem lies in Central midfield?

Not moving ball forward fast enough, not providing any support to the four forwards, isolating one another etc.

You know, like every time it's been tried in past 7 seasons?

It’s the lack of mobility in midfield that causes that. If you have a player acting as a quarterback, the other midfield player has to play higher up the pitch.

We don’t have one midfielder at the club who has that attribute. Byers and Bannan are busy, Vaulks does all of his work in front of the back four. Bakinson does all of his work in front of the back four.

If you don’t have a box to box midfield player you invite the press, and because we don’t have any form of atheticism in the forward line beyond Windass and potentially Musaba, then it’s easy to stop.

[HoylandOwl]

Fight to the last seconds....

 

[Reesh]

3 hours ago, KrolMong said:

I am struggling to see any form of strategy or pattern to our play, from pre-season up to last night. To delve further into it, what I would expect is a style to be visible from the first pre season game, and us to keep working at it until it starts to click. Yes, it takes the players time to adapt, and some may not, but that’s fine.

I’ve simply not seen that. I don’t what Munoz is trying to do. We’ve played a mish mash of systems, we’ve ended up banging it back to front, we’ve ended up with forward players completely isolated and not touching the ball. I’d even say that at times we look uncoached.

I know it’s early days, but alarm bells are ringing.

Oh fuck off.  Let's get Darren Moore back eh.

[Ozzie]

Read many that before the season starts they'd accept just surviving. Now 2 game in folk are losing their shit! Early days and I have no doubts that Xisco will get it sorted.  

We started late due to the playoffs and when DM walked it pushed us further back. His list was ripped up or taken as I can't see anybody other than James who'd have been on Moore's list.

Thee "alarm bells are ringing" and "I hope I'm wrong" do my nut in. DM should've had autos with last years team but proceeded to completely fuck it up in April. 2nd leg and 120+3 and he's Guardiola. XM in time will be one of our clubs top managers. A fully fit Byers in our team will make a wave of difference.

IMO the players brought in look to be what I want to see in a Wednesday team, they just need time to bed in, there are some fucking diamonds in there.  

 

[Otto_Man]

What Ozzie said. I keep reminding my mates that Moore was about 30 seconds away from the sack anyway (and I liked him).

I think a box to box midfielder will be on the list, but then they're on everyone's lists aren't they?!

[KrolMong]

1 hour ago, Reesh said:

Oh fuck off.  Let's get Darren Moore back eh.

It would have been equally bad under Moore. My honest opinion is that we don’t have the the players to play the system and style that Xisco knows. If you want to play counter attacking football, you need a team full of athletes. If you want to keep ball, all 11 players have to be willing to take it under pressure, interchange positions and move it quickly.

As it stands, we haven’t got the players to do either. That may change before the end of Jan, but, we are really short in midfield and forward positions.

[HoylandOwl]

2 hours ago, Ozzie said:

.Thee "alarm bells are ringing" and "I hope I'm wrong" do my nut in. DM should've had autos with last years team but proceeded to completely fuck it up in April. 2nd leg and 120+3 and he's Guardiola. XM in time will be one of our clubs top managers. A fully fit Byers in our team will make a wave of difference.

IMO the players brought in look to be what I want to see in a Wednesday team, they just need time to bed in, there are some fucking diamonds in there.  

 

Mate you have a point, but there is just as much validity in someone being concerned and voicing their opinion. 
For me, I’m a patient person, I VERY rarely  knee jerk about anything. And football definitely isn’t something I don’t ruminate on rather than jump to conclusions.

I will definitely give Xisco and the new lads the benefit of the doubt right now. But the concerns are there for all to see currently. There is little pace in the side in terms of passing, we’ve definitely got players that can get about the pitch more than we had, so I have optimism that it will come together. 

At times last night we were totally outplayed by a League 2 side. In fact for very large portions of the game. 
But. Here’s the thing. 
We won eventually. 

Thats the bottom line. We want us to win.
If we can do it while learning, is that a bad thing. Absolutely not. 

You’re right, we started getting our team later than others. So it will take time to get them together as a cohesive unit. I just get the impression that, we need that little spark, that glimmer of what may be possible, to just reinforce what we’re trying to do and I think some folks may just back off. 

[HoylandOwl]

For those who don’t do Twitter or ‘X’ and don’t follow us….

This made me laugh. A young lad sat behind me, who was about 6 year old said to his dad after they’d scored…

‘I thought you said they were badder than us…. Dad, they’re winning.’

[Ozzie]

Maybe teachers should try teaching kids instead of giving em gay porn books

[Andyben]

6 hours ago, KrolMong said:

It would have been equally bad under Moore. My honest opinion is that we don’t have the the players to play the system and style that Xisco knows. If you want to play counter attacking football, you need a team full of athletes. If you want to keep ball, all 11 players have to be willing to take it under pressure, interchange positions and move it quickly.

As it stands, we haven’t got the players to do either. That may change before the end of Jan, but, we are really short in midfield and forward positions.

I'm away and haven't watched us apart from a brief spell Friday, but how do you think Delgado would cope centrally as an 8 @KrolMong @Tylluan

Edited August 9, 2023 by Andyben

[Reesh]

5 hours ago, HoylandOwl said:

For those who don’t do Twitter or ‘X’ and don’t follow us….

This made me laugh. A young lad sat behind me, who was about 6 year old said to his dad after they’d scored…

‘I thought you said they were badder than us…. Dad, they’re winning.’

Little **** should have been at home learning badder isn't the correct terminology to use at that point.