Politics shit innit

[mkowl]

This could be the least populated thread on here ever.

 

[Andyben]

CBA.

Two cheeks of the same arse now. 

Resigned my conservative party membership earlier this year.

Since the globalist Coup that overthrew the legitimately elected government under Johnson, and installed the WEFists Cameron/Hunt et al, all that's happened is Sunak has proven that his government's Labour policies aren't as popular as whatever Starmer's are pretending to be this week.

You've got the BoE refusing to lower interest rates (thereby making people poorer) to help the Labour Party (watch rates drop in August - post election) and GMP won't do anything against Rayner this side of July.

However...bank on a "no labour majority" which will lead to some proper shape shifting by the  slab of offal to form a coalition with the greens, LibDems etc to get a majority.

Unless...Tice and Farage take up with the fake tories - but they're waiting to pick up the pieces in 2025. Or they do a no-compete with Sunak in key seats and then It's not impossible that a Tory / Reform / DUP coalition could sneak it.

 

 

[mkowl]

Never been a member of a political party. Ok I probably sit in the centre - nudge right on business and the economy (not a surprise given what I do) but nudge left on welfare etc.

The oxymoron of being a social conservative - can it exist as a thing.

We have changed boundaries so now in a genuine open seat as part of MK south as opposed to rural Bucks. But given that was Bercow's seat when speaker I voted Independent last 2 goes. Was never a fan of Boris or the nut job right wing element, so I want them put to the metaphorical sword in the same manner as the lefties under Corbyn 

Starmer does seem the least worst option, I think I just want the politicians to sort out (or at least address) some real structural problems in the UK and less on the political point scoring and internal battles.

Yep I appreciate that ain't going to happen

[Gamblor]

In important political news. Sky’s advert for their election coverage has Sophy Ridge showing off her Wednesday mug. 

[Skamp]

On 22/05/2024 at 21:01, Andyben said:

Coup that overthrew the legitimately elected government

They'll live to regret this for a decade or more.

I joined the Conservative party just to vote for Boris to be party leader, can't be bothered to cancel just yet but my patience with them is wearing a bit thin now however the thought of Captain Crasherooney Snoozefest leading the nation terrifies me immensely.

Edited May 23 by Skamp

[Andyben]

Same Skamp.

Looks like Farage will be picking up the pieces of the Tory party in autumn and  merging with Reform.

He's played it superbly well.

And 100% Farage won't make mistake of last 6 years of government which deserted its core support to try and chase voters who would never ever vote fr them.

What a waste of a majority and great opportunity under Boris 

[Tylluan]

Sunak's latest vote grabbing attempt is another one of those that will never get off the ground. 

Ex general in February mentions National Service and the Government issue immediate rebuttals saying no we're not thinking of bringing it back. Election called and the uniforms are being ordered. 

You can't even shout at kids in school, when you actually get them to turn up, but you're gonna try and put them in dorms and drag them out of bed at 6am to make their own beds and clean their boots???

And those exempted, off you go doing one weekend a month on community service. 

It's cloudy cuckoo land but it'll appeal to all those 'back in my day' voters

[Andyben]

@Tylluanafter three years of policies that have alienated the core Tory membership and unforgivablely deserting the new tory voters in th North, they're trying anything now.

Hunt talking about IHT - so wipe it at the  last budget?

Sunak on about national service.

Its as if they're looking at "The Ladybird Book Of Conservativism" and picking ideas  from it.

[owl71]

Over 700k 18 year olds in the UK.  If half of them were conscripted into the military it would treble in size.  To house, feed, train and equip them would require a big increase in budget and a huge procurement programme.  Don’t suppose there’s any detail about any of that then?  Nah, didn’t think so.

Worst UK government I’ve ever seen.  Please just fucking do one.

[JBO]

Worst UK government you've seen so far.

[BraddersTim]

6 hours ago, JBO said:

Worst UK government you've seen so far.

In fairness, I thought that Johnson was as bad as it could possibly get...then came Truss.  I thought that nothing could be as bad as her Government.  Sunak looked like he might at least be a grown up in the room but his government has been appallingly shite.

It has been without doubt, the worst period of Government in my lifetime and whilst Starmer has underwhelmed me on quite a few issues, he is at least competent and right now, that's a massive improvement. 

[Reesh]

21 minutes ago, BraddersTim said:

In fairness, I thought that Johnson was as bad as it could possibly get...then came Truss.  I thought that nothing could be as bad as her Government.  Sunak looked like he might at least be a grown up in the room but his government has been appallingly shite.

It has been without doubt, the worst period of Government in my lifetime and whilst Starmer has underwhelmed me on quite a few issues, he is at least competent and right now, that's a massive improvement. 

Ask the children groomed in Rotherham about the competence of Starmer.....

[BraddersTim]

Eff all to do with him.

 

 

 

[Skamp]

..

Edited May 27 by Skamp

[owl71]

5 hours ago, Reesh said:

Ask the children groomed in Rotherham about the competence of Starmer.....

Bullshit.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/dpp-keir-starmer-issues-tough-new-guidelines-for-child-sex-cases-aimed-at-securing-more-convictions-8884957.html
 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/nov/04/child-abuse-keir-starmer-prosecute-professionals
 

More than one Conservative cabinet minister complemented Starmer on the job he did as DPP when he left the position 11 years ago.  Now that they are five weeks away from opposition, surprisingly enough they are trying to blame every bad thing that happened in Britain 2008-13 on the Crown Prosecution Service.

[Andyben]

7 hours ago, owl71 said:

Bullshit.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/dpp-keir-starmer-issues-tough-new-guidelines-for-child-sex-cases-aimed-at-securing-more-convictions-8884957.html
 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/nov/04/child-abuse-keir-starmer-prosecute-professionals
 

More than one Conservative cabinet minister complemented Starmer on the job he did as DPP when he left the position 11 years ago.  Now that they are five weeks away from opposition, surprisingly enough they are trying to blame every bad thing that happened in Britain 2008-13 on the Crown Prosecution Service.

That articles a week or two  before he resigned as DPP and at th end of a five year stint.

Probably not a fair representation of his time there, whether for or against him.

But don't you think what happened under his watch in th preceding 5 years is more relevant?

 

[Andyben]

In fact @owl71 isn't this (the tougher guidelines) actually an admission that previously, i.e. during his tenure, there was a problem?

He's on record during his time there (and at parliamentary hearings chaired quite unforgivably by Keith Vaz) saying that the CPS and Police investigations concentrated more on the validity and background of the accusers, and not the cultural / ethnic background of the accused that could have gone further in showing patterns for the sadistic abuse of these young girls.

 

[Skamp]

1 hour ago, Andyben said:

In fact @owl71 isn't this (the tougher guidelines) actually an admission that previously, i.e. during his tenure, there was a problem?

He's on record during his time there (and at parliamentary hearings chaired quite unforgivably by Keith Vaz) saying that the CPS and Police investigations concentrated more on the validity and background of the accusers, and not the cultural / ethnic background of the accused that could have gone further in showing patterns for the sadistic abuse of these young girls.

 

You're surely not suggesting that Sir Keir was only acting and responding with the behefit of hindsight are you? 

[Andyben]

4 minutes ago, Skamp said:

You're surely not suggesting that Sir Keir was only acting and responding with the behefit of hindsight are you? 

You know what...it's quite possible isn't it.

Either that or he flip flopped...

[BraddersTim]

The funny thing about this thread is it's not even worth debating the facts.

Labour will win.

Tories will be fucked. All that'll be left will be the Braverman/Badenoch/Mogg extremists & they'll be to the right of Reform. 

Still, they've plundered the money & made themselves and their donors even richer. 

 

[Skamp]

38 minutes ago, BraddersTim said:

The funny thing about this thread is it's not even worth debating the facts.

Oh, i don't think that anyone on here will disagree that Labour will walk the next election, but we can still debate it.

Even if it's it just to warn of the shitstorm that will hit the UK when they get in with over 150 newly selected MPs all spouting shite about Hamas.

[Andyben]

47 minutes ago, BraddersTim said:

The funny thing about this thread is it's not even worth debating the facts.

Labour will win.

 

 

I can't disagree with that, and the Faux-Tories deserve to go under.

 

[BraddersTim]

2 hours ago, Skamp said:

Oh, i don't think that anyone on here will disagree that Labour will walk the next election, but we can still debate it.

Even if it's it just to warn of the shitstorm that will hit the UK when they get in with over 150 newly selected MPs all spouting shite about Hamas.

And you wondered why people laugh at the Daily Mail 😂😂😂

[mkowl]

6 hours ago, Andyben said:

I can't disagree with that, and the Faux-Tories deserve to go under.

 

Is that the ERG nobbers. The main reason most are turning away from the Tory party in truth. Fucking horrible people like the left wingers in the Labour Party. 

[Andyben]

3 minutes ago, mkowl said:

Is that the ERG nobbers. The main reason most are turning away from the Tory party in truth. Fucking horrible people like the left wingers in the Labour Party. 

No it's not.

Its getting Cameron and Hunt back that's cost the fake tories votes

[BraddersTim]

53 minutes ago, Andyben said:

No it's not.

Its getting Cameron and Hunt back that's cost the fake tories votes

Not really, its simply that the country has had enough of it all.  They've destroyed themselves from the inside and caused massive damage in doing so.  Cameron/Hunt have had little effect either way.

Labour haven't even had to fight for it, that's the kicker if you're a Tory.

[Andyben]

No. 

Trust me it's the failed promise to 'level up' in the  north / midlands/ red wall that's cost them the  huge majority from 2019 and the desertion from Conservative policies and dumping of Boris that's cost them the core Tory voters.

 

[mkowl]

Just now, Andyben said:

No. 

Trust me it's the failed promise to 'level up' in the  north / midlands/ red wall that's cost them the  huge majority from 2019 and the desertion from Conservative policies and dumping of Boris that's cost them the core Tory voters.

 

Come on why is Sunak touring Amersham and Chesham, the ERG mob have destroyed the local vote there which were the equivalent of the sticking a red rosette on a donkey in Sheffield 

[Andyben]

2 minutes ago, mkowl said:

Come on why is Sunak touring Amersham and Chesham, the ERG mob have destroyed the local vote there which were the equivalent of the sticking a red rosette on a donkey in Sheffield 

As its had a lib dem MP since 2021 I find that a bit hard to believe 

[mkowl]

4 minutes ago, Andyben said:

No. 

Trust me it's the failed promise to 'level up' in the  north / midlands/ red wall that's cost them the  huge majority from 2019 and the desertion from Conservative policies and dumping of Boris that's cost them the core Tory voters.

 

Boris cost them my vote last time

I got that call right about his capabilities as a PM, the Carlos of the Tory party 🥳

[Andyben]

2 minutes ago, mkowl said:

Boris cost them my vote last time

I got that call right about his capabilities as a PM, the Carlos of the Tory party 🥳

But he was entirely responsible for the  increased vote and winning th massive majority by appealing to voters in the red wall/ north.

Just because you don't like him it doesn't mean others didn't either.

Remember during the last few days of the Elcection v Corbyn when  the "we know bests" were tipping him to lose his seat.

[mkowl]

Just now, Andyben said:

As its had a lib dem MP since 2021 I find that a bit hard to believe 

Why did it go Lib Dem though. I will give you HS2 had some impact, but in other Tory areas they have lost the blue rinse vote 

My very limited straw poll of business owners I can safely say have turned away as well, not sure they are comfortable with Starmer per se, but the right wing rhetoric is not pleasant from a lot of them.

The nonsense about channel crossing immigration when literally 8 times as many were given legitimate visas

Get back to old fashioned Tory values 

[Andyben]

2 minutes ago, mkowl said:

Get back to old fashioned Tory values

This is key 

[mkowl]

Just now, Andyben said:

But he was entirely responsible for the  increased vote and winning th massive majority by appealing to voters in the red wall/ north.

Just because you don't like him it doesn't mean others didn't either.

Remember during the last few days of the Elcection v Corbyn when  the "we know bests" were tipping him to lose his seat.

My point is the vast majority of the country are in the centre ground, despite the fact the noise you hear is from the far left or far right. 

I could never vote for Labour whilst Corbyn was there 

I would say the vote for Boris was in part a reflection of that and yes partly his character. But he was not really that good as PM which I long suspected would be the case 

[mkowl]

2 minutes ago, Andyben said:

This is key 

Which isn't those of the ERG mob in my view.

 

 

[Andyben]

28 minutes ago, BraddersTim said:

Labour haven't even had to fight for it, that's the kicker if you're a Tory.

This should be a huge worry for theo left.

There's a long recent history (2010+) of the actual vote being much further to the right than the  polls would suggest, so if labour haven't won't it - but are just relying on the  incompetence of the current administration then there remains the possibility that the swing won't be sufficient to create a majority - hence my initial post...

But Sunak and his unelcted WEFist cabal will still fuck it up 

Edited May 28 by Andyben

[mkowl]

1 minute ago, Andyben said:

This should be a huge worry for theo left.

There's a long recent history (2010+) of the actual vote being much further to the right than the  polls would suggest, so if labour haven't won't it - but are just relying on the  incompetence of the current administration then there remains the possibility that the swing won't be sufficient to create a majority - hence my initial post 

I don't disagree but I think the core ground is more centre than right 

What do people really want

An economy that functions 

A society where hard work is rewarded and slackers are not

However we have a decent functioning health service, education system, infrastructure that works that people that are less fortunate are looked after.

I mean give me a tax cut but what's it worth if I have to shell out 500 quid for 4 new tyres due to the frigging potholes 

 

[Andyben]

8 minutes ago, mkowl said:

My point is the vast majority of the country are in the centre ground,

What makes you think that 

[mkowl]

4 minutes ago, Andyben said:

What makes you think that 

Well the swing seats that determine the Election are I would describe as the Centre ground. The people who move between Labour and the Tories, certainly around the Midlands and the rural / urban constituencies

Thanks to the boundary changes I am now in one after years where they weighed the Tory vote 

[Andyben]

15 minutes ago, mkowl said:

Well the swing seats that determine the Election are I would describe as the Centre ground. The people who move between Labour and the Tories, certainly around the Midlands and the rural / urban constituencies

Thanks to the boundary changes I am now in one after years where they weighed the Tory vote 

Think about it.

That's not how it works.

If there's less than 1% difference between left and right of centre, the big swing comes from outliers changing position.

For example "Mondeo Man" in 1997'  who would have been a hard-core thatcher-ite tory in Harlow / Dagenham etc  but swung to Blair,  similar to the red  wall swing in 2019.

What will cost the tories this time is losing their core vote. The redwood fans in Wiltshire, who won't vote for the slab of offal but will vote reform or more likely not at all.

Edited May 28 by Andyben

[mkowl]

15 minutes ago, Andyben said:

Think about it.

That's not how it works.

If there's less than 1% difference between left and right of centre, the big swing comes from outliers changing position.

For example "Mondeo Man" in 1997'  who would have been a hard-core thatcher-ite tory in Harlow / Dagenham etc  but swung to Blair,  similar to the red  wall swing in 2019.

What will cost the tories this time is losing their core vote. The redwood fans in Wiltshire, who won't vote for the slab of offal but will vote reform or more likely not at all.

I think it depends on the circumstances of the Election, so yep the big vote changes will impact, but I think you underestimate the centre in the swing seats 

[Skamp]

7 hours ago, BraddersTim said:

And you wondered why people laugh at the Daily Mail 😂😂😂

When did I raise that question?

[Skamp]

Talking of swing, it’s interesting that the UK looks on course to swing to the left whilst mainstream Europe is seeing quite a surge to the right recently.

Perhaps it’s the nature of politics. Swinging away from the party that’s been in power a bit too long and have had to deal with global issues previously unencountered whilst the opposition has sat there doing nothing but criticise with the benefit of hindsight.

 

 

[Tylluan]

11 hours ago, Skamp said:

150 newly selected MPs all spouting shite about Hamas.

Talking about this at work today. One of the views was if Palestine was officially recognised as a state then Israel could legitimise the conflict as a war by claiming a neighbouring country invaded, instead of a terrorist organisation atrocity and a UN recognised state punishing a civilian population for it. 

[Tylluan]

On 27/05/2024 at 01:26, owl71 said:

Over 700k 18 year olds in the UK.  If half of them were conscripted into the military it would treble in size.  To house, feed, train and equip them would require a big increase in budget and a huge procurement programme.  Don’t suppose there’s any detail about any of that then?  Nah, didn’t think so.

Worst UK government I’ve ever seen.  Please just fucking do one.

They'll source the 'uniforms' from Bangladesh and it won't be proper DPM. They'll be wearing trainers, not boots, as new recruits do now and we're definitely not going to give them weapons training. They'll be learning motor mechanics, so they jack cars and trucks when they come out and cyber security so they can hack and drop ransomwear onto unsuspecting grannies. 

The real life skills Sunak says national service will provide. 

[BraddersTim]

At this rate the next Tory announcement is going to be compulsory chimney sweeping for all 8 year olds.

[Skamp]

It'll keep the little bastards out of trouble and get some taxes in to pay for Starmer and Raynor's uncosted giveaway promises.

[Reesh]

If you looked up the word **** in the dictionary there would be a picture of Angela Rayner there, she proper grips my shit!

[Skamp]

She's already promising her Muslim voters that Labour will recognise Palestine to curry favour with them (no pun intended)

Starmer is talking of giving 16 year old the vote

 

This isn't making policy, it's whoring themselves to the electorate.

[Reesh]

12 minutes ago, Skamp said:

She's already promising her Muslim voters that Labour will recognise Palestine to curry favour with them (no pun intended)

Starmer is talking of giving 16 year old the vote

 

This isn't making policy, it's whoring themselves to the electorate.

To be the 16 year olds vote appeals to Rayner, she was already knocked up and failing school then, before becoming heavily involved with the union scumbags