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What do we expect? What are we willing to accept?


KrolMong

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I am going to ask a question. And this is purely based on our onfield activities, not related to what happens in the board room or off the pitch.

What are your expectations? And what are you willing to accept?

I will start. My expectation is that we will have a very tough season, lose an awful lot of games but ultimately stay up. By that, I will not accept relegation. The bar is low for me, born out of monstrous rebuild that will take 3 windows to solve, and a lot of players coming in that will not be a success and what is a much better division than we realised.

So, I want to see two things and I will accept both. I expect and will accept staying up on the last day. The second one is critical, I want to see a style developed and players signed to match that style, if that means we give the manager half a season, so be it. But after 10 games I want to see a pattern.

But, I also expect that if the results and performances are not there, I expect the manager will be fired.

So, stay up and a style defined, with some players coming in who will be disasters but will be signed based on a plan.

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Pretty much this KM.  Totally expected us to be around the lower third of the league with a flirtation with relegation up until a couple of games to go.  As it stands it may be a last day job. 

Typically we have got promoted into probably the strongest Championship for a few seasons and the fact we probably did not have a Championship ready squad regardless of points amassed last season has made it that much more difficult.

I would have expected a more targeted recruitment of players and strategy for style of play.  I get we are a number of weeks behind other teams but cannot keep trotting out this mantra.  Players should be fit as a given these days and be able to play different styles.  They have all had a number of different other clubs and Managers not to be pigeon holed with the 5-3-2 of last season. 

I still have a bit of faith in Xisco but that is waning.  A point at Cardiff and convincing win last night would have made great strides as slight improvements game on game have been there.

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If we'd pushed on when top of L1 and won the league, I'd anticipate bejng top 6/10 now. 

We didn't. We were in awful form playing awful football and after the players played for DM following his alleged sacking and reinstatement, we spawned it.

Now we're on a slow long build up. Stay up is key, I think we'll do better but we'll see 

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I expect a striker to be signed.  A young PL striker or following the mould of the recent signings, someone that we haven't heard of that's a bit younger than what we have and a bit more dynamic.  If we get that and a couple of others in, we'll be fine (just).  I expect and I'm willing to expect staying up on the last game of the season and I don't think the season will go much better than that.   

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I've seen some green shoots in our last 2 home games. It's going to take a while, but ultimately I believe we'll be better at the end of the season if we stick with thong song than we would if we'd stuck with DM (and I liked DM).

I expect the fanbase to chill the fuck out and stop metaphorically sucking off every chancer who puts out a statement about buying the club.

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5 hours ago, KrolMong said:

I am going to ask a question. And this is purely based on our onfield activities, not related to what happens in the board room or off the pitch.

What are your expectations? And what are you willing to accept?

I will start. My expectation is that we will have a very tough season, lose an awful lot of games but ultimately stay up. By that, I will not accept relegation. The bar is low for me, born out of monstrous rebuild that will take 3 windows to solve, and a lot of players coming in that will not be a success and what is a much better division than we realised.

So, I want to see two things and I will accept both. I expect and will accept staying up on the last day. The second one is critical, I want to see a style developed and players signed to match that style, if that means we give the manager half a season, so be it. But after 10 games I want to see a pattern.

But, I also expect that if the results and performances are not there, I expect the manager will be fired.

So, stay up and a style defined, with some players coming in who will be disasters but will be signed based on a plan.

It wasn't ever going to be a walk in the park. I don't think anyone besides the Chairman truly thought we'd be expected to rise up to anywhere near the playoff spots this season and I've always been in a place similar to KM mentions above.

 

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Said pre season that I'd be happy if we just survived. 

I want him to stop dicking about with squad selection and rotation. Pick an 11 and a system and stand by it for at least 5 games, preferably 10. Tell these players that even if they drop a bollock they're still in the next game. Then pick the same bench for these games and tell these players how they will add value to the game when they come on and that everything gets reviewed after 5 games. You can't have 24 players waiting til Thursday/Friday to find out if they should bring their boots on Saturday. 

I want DC to actually go home for a bit and stay off social media. Him being around is only fuelling the antagonising Muppets and so called journalists. He's got a CoO and a recruitment chief in so let them do any transfers that need to be done. He doesn't need to be that hands on. 

Finally I want the club PR machine (if we have one) to starting manipulating little positive 'wins' for the club. Let's have more stuff on the 18s and 21s. Interviews with parents of the junior academy highlighting why they're happy for their kid to be with us. Players not in the matchday squad in the club shop for an hour signing shirts and having photos. Players turning up to junior academy trials days and sessions. Promotional stands at Fresher's fairs with freebie t-shirts. Surprise visits at schools/hospitals/hospices. Basically anything that gives us an off-field positive presence to offset the on field negativity. 

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And if Mark the Pitsmoor Owl (or anyone like him) is still slagging us off then send Callum Paterson round with a film crew for a nice cup of tea and a chat about what the players are trying to achieve and that spouting bollocks on praise or grumble isn't helping. 

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I’m like KM. I’ll settle for staying up. I like that we’re thinking longer term so I’m setting my expectations and patience accordingly. 
 

As long as we improve game on game, DC will give him the players, we should be fine. It’s just not much fun in the short term. 

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I’m pretty much of the same minds as what other folk have said.

TBH I’m not sure I’d stand by if we looked like we were going to go down whimpering like we did last time we got relegated. I think another relegation to L1 would be the final straw for me ie no more visits to Hillsborough and paying money into something that has been so mismanaged. I know that’s blasphemy for some.

So I’m hoping for staying up and expecting that we will.

This has the potential to be one of the strongest Championships in a while, given the money from PL parachutes and the size of club jostling for promotion.

We definitely need a left back and I’m sure they will be working on it and a striker, which again I suspect is being looked at. I’d be very surprised if we don’t see Smith or Gregory leave.

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Given I suggested about 18th then we are below par.

I think it's the manner of the performances, the fact we have been 2nd best in most of the games, that there are frailties in defence, ponderous in midfield and lack of any attacking credentials in games v Hull, Preston and Cardiff that are, or should be, the benchmark.

Then you look at the next 6 games and think not only could these be defeats, but moral sapping ones, when the confidence levels already look fragile.

We have a head coach and new signings doing the learning in plain sight. And it's not like the opposition don't understand this.

And then factor in growing disenchantment in the fan base. I appreciate some on here fail to see why that would be the case, there should be greater patience. But I think that as bubbled under the surface for years 

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6 minutes ago, Tank_Owl2,0 said:

I’m pretty much of the same minds as what other folk have said.

TBH I’m not sure I’d stand by if we looked like we were going to go down whimpering like we did last time we got relegated. I think another relegation to L1 would be the final straw for me ie no more visits to Hillsborough and paying money into something that has been so mismanaged. I know that’s blasphemy for some.

So I’m hoping for staying up and expecting that we will.

This has the potential to be one of the strongest Championships in a while, given the money from PL parachutes and the size of club jostling for promotion.

We definitely need a left back and I’m sure they will be working on it and a striker, which again I suspect is being looked at. I’d be very surprised if we don’t see Smith or Gregory leave.

I fully accept my view is negative, but my angst started in the months before the covid epidemic. The whole nonsense of the threat of points deductions, the fuck up on a basic level on the stadium sale, the total disregard of FFP rules, late payment of wages etc and the obvious impact this was having on on field performances. I was fatigued with dragging my arse up the M1 to see insipid, dull losing football. The stadium emptying out by 4.30pm.

The relegation was the icing on that cake, but it did feel that summer there was good decision making, some good recruitment and continuity.

The angst in the fan base I think is primarily that from the high of the play off win, this summer in contrast to 2021 has been a shambles.

I will use the term battle fatigue, or more it feels like Here We Go Again as Whitesnake chirped. 

 

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10 minutes ago, Bellsview said:

When we appointed Xisco and still had no new players signed the week before the season kicked off, I said I’d settle for fourth bottom, and that remains the case.

I don't think the majority of the fan base have elevated expectations, but even so, it is really difficult to switch from seeing the side win games regularly (not in any great style) for the last 2 seasons, to one of immediate struggle. There is no promotion bounce, new head coach bounce, new signing bounce. 

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1 minute ago, mkowlthesexynewversion said:

I don't think the majority of the fan base have elevated expectations, but even so, it is really difficult to switch from seeing the side win games regularly (not in any great style) for the last 2 seasons, to one of immediate struggle. There is no promotion bounce, new head coach bounce, new signing bounce. 

I’m trying my best to remain positive, which is unusual for me as I’m usually quite impatient.

If you start a 100 metre race 30 metres behind everyone else, you aren’t going to win that race even if you make up 20 metres on everyone.

We were miles behind other teams in terms of our preparation preseason and we’ve entered a league, as others have alluded to, which is as strong as it’s ever been. So we were always going to be up against it and whilst I’m as pissed off and fucked off about that as everyone else is, you don’t get relegated in August. I dare say my patience will be tested further still should we lose to them bastards on Saturday, but looking at it logically, and not as a supporter, we should be losing on Saturday, given we are playing a team that was playing Premier League football last season and has a squad of players, even with their problems, much more talented than ours.

Am I happy with Xisco as manager, jury is out on that one and I’m still to be convinced by him, but I’ll back him and every single one of our players, and even DC who I am now doubting, 100% because I want us to succeed. I don’t see any gain from making rash decisions now and whilst I understand supporters frustrations, I don’t see protests etc helping to improve the situation.

Supporters need to not only be realistic, but also patient, which isn’t easy. This club is not a quick fix and it is going to take time for us to become competitive, just as it’s going to take a bit more time for us to have a settled, balanced side playing to a consistent system. Will we achieve that under Xisco, who knows, but he should at least be given time to try and put his stamp on things.

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22 minutes ago, Bellsview said:

I’m trying my best to remain positive, which is unusual for me as I’m usually quite impatient.

If you start a 100 metre race 30 metres behind everyone else, you aren’t going to win that race even if you make up 20 metres on everyone.

We were miles behind other teams in terms of our preparation preseason and we’ve entered a league, as others have alluded to, which is as strong as it’s ever been. So we were always going to be up against it and whilst I’m as pissed off and fucked off about that as everyone else is, you don’t get relegated in August. I dare say my patience will be tested further still should we lose to them bastards on Saturday, but looking at it logically, and not as a supporter, we should be losing on Saturday, given we are playing a team that was playing Premier League football last season and has a squad of players, even with their problems, much more talented than ours.

Am I happy with Xisco as manager, jury is out on that one and I’m still to be convinced by him, but I’ll back him and every single one of our players, and even DC who I am now doubting, 100% because I want us to succeed. I don’t see any gain from making rash decisions now and whilst I understand supporters frustrations, I don’t see protests etc helping to improve the situation.

Supporters need to not only be realistic, but also patient, which isn’t easy. This club is not a quick fix and it is going to take time for us to become competitive, just as it’s going to take a bit more time for us to have a settled, balanced side playing to a consistent system. Will we achieve that under Xisco, who knows, but he should at least be given time to try and put his stamp on things.

Fair points, the observation is that there is very little patience in the fan base. Certainly with Chansiri, I think the positive results and looking at the league table top downwards for 2 years swept the issues under the carpet. But it was lurking and the decisions and approach taken since the end of May, coupled with the slow start and I accept some media agitation, as brought him to the fore. 

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28 minutes ago, Bellsview said:

I’m trying my best to remain positive, which is unusual for me as I’m usually quite impatient.

If you start a 100 metre race 30 metres behind everyone else, you aren’t going to win that race even if you make up 20 metres on everyone.

We were miles behind other teams in terms of our preparation preseason and we’ve entered a league, as others have alluded to, which is as strong as it’s ever been. So we were always going to be up against it and whilst I’m as pissed off and fucked off about that as everyone else is, you don’t get relegated in August. I dare say my patience will be tested further still should we lose to them bastards on Saturday, but looking at it logically, and not as a supporter, we should be losing on Saturday, given we are playing a team that was playing Premier League football last season and has a squad of players, even with their problems, much more talented than ours.

Am I happy with Xisco as manager, jury is out on that one and I’m still to be convinced by him, but I’ll back him and every single one of our players, and even DC who I am now doubting, 100% because I want us to succeed. I don’t see any gain from making rash decisions now and whilst I understand supporters frustrations, I don’t see protests etc helping to improve the situation.

Supporters need to not only be realistic, but also patient, which isn’t easy. This club is not a quick fix and it is going to take time for us to become competitive, just as it’s going to take a bit more time for us to have a settled, balanced side playing to a consistent system. Will we achieve that under Xisco, who knows, but he should at least be given time to try and put his stamp on things.

Great post Pete.

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Hopefully we can turn it around and start to get a few points on the board. We need to stick with the manager and hopefully he can mould us into a half decent unit. I don’t expect us to be top half but would be happy to stay up and build with a younger squad. Changing managers is a pointless exercise at the minute, let’s see what he can do with the players he has.

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On 30/08/2023 at 13:51, Bellsview said:

I’m trying my best to remain positive, which is unusual for me as I’m usually quite impatient.

If you start a 100 metre race 30 metres behind everyone else, you aren’t going to win that race even if you make up 20 metres on everyone.

We were miles behind other teams in terms of our preparation preseason and we’ve entered a league, as others have alluded to, which is as strong as it’s ever been. So we were always going to be up against it and whilst I’m as pissed off and fucked off about that as everyone else is, you don’t get relegated in August. I dare say my patience will be tested further still should we lose to them bastards on Saturday, but looking at it logically, and not as a supporter, we should be losing on Saturday, given we are playing a team that was playing Premier League football last season and has a squad of players, even with their problems, much more talented than ours.

Am I happy with Xisco as manager, jury is out on that one and I’m still to be convinced by him, but I’ll back him and every single one of our players, and even DC who I am now doubting, 100% because I want us to succeed. I don’t see any gain from making rash decisions now and whilst I understand supporters frustrations, I don’t see protests etc helping to improve the situation.

Supporters need to not only be realistic, but also patient, which isn’t easy. This club is not a quick fix and it is going to take time for us to become competitive, just as it’s going to take a bit more time for us to have a settled, balanced side playing to a consistent system. Will we achieve that under Xisco, who knows, but he should at least be given time to try and put his stamp on things.

A good post Bells which resonates with a lot of my thoughts right now.

However, as I've said elsewhere I do think the tide has turned with DC now with more than just the vociferous minority, it now feels like no matter what he does and who we bring in before the deadline slams shut he won't be able to change the thinking of those people. But we all know a massive swing in us getting positive results, and performances to go with it, would certainly calm the stormy waters. 

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On 30/08/2023 at 16:47, Prince2 said:

Hopefully we can turn it around and start to get a few points on the board. We need to stick with the manager and hopefully he can mould us into a half decent unit. I don’t expect us to be top half but would be happy to stay up and build with a younger squad. Changing managers is a pointless exercise at the minute, let’s see what he can do with the players he has.

Fair point Prince, and welcome to the site. 

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4 hours ago, HoylandOwl said:

A good post Bells which resonates with a lot of my thoughts right now.

However, as I've said elsewhere I do think the tide has turned with DC now with more than just the vociferous minority, it now feels like no matter what he does and who we bring in before the deadline slams shut he won't be able to change the thinking of those people. But we all know a massive swing in us getting positive results, and performances to go with it, would certainly calm the stormy waters. 

The issue is that the angst with DC and his approach runs deep. I still struggle with the disregard of FFP, points deductions etc. It had a detrimental impact on performances on the pitch for 2 seasons at least. He was probably fortunate that the pandemic restrictions prevented that angst being demonstrated.

However that summer post relegation was positive recruitment wise, fans could get back in stadiums and the results improved. But to me it wasn't far from the surface and even the biggest fans of Chansiri would probably concede this summer he gave plenty of ammunition to fire shots back at him.

A poor start results and performance wise is giving them a gun as well

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So, has any ones expectations radically changed as a result of the transfer window.

A bit more experience in the midfield I think was important. We still seem to have an issue on the left hand side of the team. Players can certainly play there, but it does seem lacking.

We would all like a new striker, but so does every squad.

The requirement for Xisco is to blend all these signings into a system that actually works. I doubt we are going to see much scintillating football, we seem set up to be fairly solid and hopefully create chances on the break, a set piece. Like many Championship games it will be fairly attritional and the odd moment of quality the difference. 

Can we shoe horn in those potential game changers, without disruption to the defensive shape 

 

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On 01/09/2023 at 01:50, mkowlthesexynewversion said:

The issue is that the angst with DC and his approach runs deep. I still struggle with the disregard of FFP, points deductions etc. It had a detrimental impact on performances on the pitch for 2 seasons at least. He was probably fortunate that the pandemic restrictions prevented that angst being demonstrated.

However that summer post relegation was positive recruitment wise, fans could get back in stadiums and the results improved. But to me it wasn't far from the surface and even the biggest fans of Chansiri would probably concede this summer he gave plenty of ammunition to fire shots back at him.

A poor start results and performance wise is giving them a gun as well

Yes, when he came in and chucked cash around, gambling on promotion, which was a ride, but he expected instant success but it was a ride and not many (if any) complained at the time. BUT of course We fell foul of it massively as you say MK, had the points deduction, had the FFP stuff. Now. 

There are positives NOW, the balance sheet looking healthier than it has for a while, reducing the wage bill, commercial activities being better than they've been, regardless of what you/we/I think of the shirt prices, sales continue to still be good. 

My biggest issue now with DC is how it SEEMS like he's not adjusted his mindset even after being in charge now for 8 years. Yes, he chucked in more money than anyone before him has. And that's not to be sniffed at. But, he needs to be realistic in what he expects from a squad which has 12 (is it 12 now?) new faces, many of which aren't tested in the Championship or English football. Now we all want someone who is ambitious in charge, of course we do, but it's that realism he seems to sometimes lack with ON pitch expectations in terms of position in the league. 

I can't be arsed to get embroiled in it all, with things like this The 1867 or what they are called which has appeared on twitter in the last few days etc. If they want to try and disrupt things, good luck to them, it's their bag, if people want to get involved in things like this so be it. But I won't get involved in it. Why? It's nothing to do with being Anti DC OR Pro DC. It's simply because I can't be bothered with it all. Of course. Wednesday mean a hell of a lot to me, they always have and always will but my family mean more and it's that simple to me.

 

 

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Fair points Tee, I may have my moans on here at times (ok every 5 minutes) because it would worry me more if I was ambivalent to events. However after having my 15 minutes of infamy in a fans group, scarily 13 years ago now, I don't care as much to join anything.

But having done it, I am not going to criticise those who get that fire in the belly thinking "why aren't we better, why have so many clubs overtaken us etc". Their efforts may be futile but if you have a passion for Sheffield Wednesday then you want the best for the Club.

Whilst I have my opinions I do like to think I respect other points of view. So whilst I will not concur that DC is a good owner, I can accept the view that we have had worse and indeed the grass isn't necessarily greener.

But like you have posted in the Mission to Burnley thread, my issue is what is the strategic plan. But then hasn't DC gone on record to say you can't in football. I mean the likes of Brighton and Brentford give compelling evidence that yes you can. 

His 8 years in charge have not advanced the Club by the simple benchmark of league position. 

 

 

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