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Pilgrimage to Devon - Match thread


HoylandOwl
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4 minutes ago, Owling_Wolf said:

The one by Smith was huge: eventually proving to be game changing.  He put a huge shift in but he's got to do better with that.

Btw, their sponsor chose Cooper, their keeper, as man of the match. 

Tbf Owling he was, but why can we as fans all see that whenever we settle for a draw the wheels come off. If teams attack us, we concede good chances for them to score.

They went for it, credit to their manager for building up the momentum with his subs but we boosted that momentum hugely. I don't actually have an issue with changing players due to tiredness, but if we as fans can see that pace is unsettling them why can't Tweedle Dumb and Tweedle Dumber on the sidelines keep the pace levels on.

It's so frustrating that he loses too many of this tactical tussles with other managers 

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1 minute ago, mkowlthesexynewversion said:

What gets me is that him and Jamie Smith ponder these subs for 5 minutes before making them and still manage to bollocks it up 

They should have pondered for another 20 minutes or so.

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9 minutes ago, mkowlthesexynewversion said:

Tbf Owling he was, but why can we as fans all see that whenever we settle for a draw the wheels come off. If teams attack us, we concede good chances for them to score.

They went for it, credit to their manager for building up the momentum with his subs but we boosted that momentum hugely. I don't actually have an issue with changing players due to tiredness, but if we as fans can see that pace is unsettling them why can't Tweedle Dumb and Tweedle Dumber on the sidelines keep the pace levels on.

It's so frustrating that he loses too many of this tactical tussles with other managers 

I was surprised we didn't chuck a fresh Hunt on if actually fit now after his illness. The excellent Palmer, superb tonight, was blowing badly late on.  

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1 minute ago, MAL said:

They should have pondered for another 20 minutes or so.

Thing is I don't disagree with making subs when tiredness hits. And taking one of them off was possibly a reasonable thing to do. 

I just dislike it was done with negative intent. It's not like I would expect in an away game against top of the table to go gung ho, more you can't hand them the initiative even more than they had 

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Just now, KrolMong said:

So. We’ve now played all of the top 7.

We have got 5 points. Lost three, drawn two and won one.

Says everything

Tactically out smarted again.

He has actually said the subs were made due to fatigue but also with Saturdays game in mind 

I think the fans patience across the board ran out tonight 

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1 minute ago, mkowlthesexynewversion said:

Thing is I don't disagree with making subs when tiredness hits. And taking one of them off was possibly a reasonable thing to do. 

I just dislike it was done with negative intent. It's not like I would expect in an away game against top of the table to go gung ho, more you can't hand them the initiative even more than they had 

Yeah, i don't disagree with what you say about tiredness, but i don't think tonight was the night.

When you are playing that well, you DO NOT RADICALISE IT!!!!

Sometimes you can make a substitute that compliments and helps their game along, tonight he ruined it.

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Just now, MAL said:

Yeah, i don't disagree with what you say about tiredness, but i don't think tonight was the night.

When you are playing that well, you DO NOT RADICALISE IT!!!!

Sometimes you can make a substitute that compliments and helps their game along, tonight he ruined it.

I just wouldn’t bring Paterson on. And bring Gregory on. The issue we had was if you lose that movement and guile that Bannan and Windass offered, you need a way of getting it to stick. Paterson has an abysmal touch and is woeful at linking play, whereas Gregory will. There was even an argument for Mighten to buzz around Smith.

Just not Paterson, aside from miscontrol things, or foul people, he offered no support to Smith or the midfield three.

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27 minutes ago, KrolMong said:

I just wouldn’t bring Paterson on. And bring Gregory on. The issue we had was if you lose that movement and guile that Bannan and Windass offered, you need a way of getting it to stick. Paterson has an abysmal touch and is woeful at linking play, whereas Gregory will. There was even an argument for Mighten to buzz around Smith.

Just not Paterson, aside from miscontrol things, or foul people, he offered no support to Smith or the midfield three.

Not many people will like this, but...

I like Paterson, but...

Only in certain circumstances, tonight was absolute bollocks.

All i can is yes we needed substitutes...

But for a so called manager, to do that, it was disgraceful.

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Autos is delivered by at least not losing to your top rivals. I haven't watched but from what's been said on here Plymouth went for it and it's paid dividends in a 6 pointer.

Obviously all's not lost, be interesting to see the reaction

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Woke up and yep

Still annoyed with how that last 15 minutes played out. Clearly there is no guarantee if the substitutions had been different that the result would have been different. It is easy to ignore how well Plymouth turned up the heat with their subs.

The frustration is simply how easy we made it to do that removing the jeopardy of over-committing for them.

Once we allow sides to pin us to the edge of our box we struggle, concede goal scoring chances and indeed goals. It will happen at times in any game but to allow it for a sustained period by the choice of subs was awful by Moore 

The fact he made the subs with Saturday in mind is indicative of the mindset he has. 

 

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There’s no doubt the subs took the wind out of our sails last night. As someone else has said, maybe James was injured but to be fair to Iorfa he was ok when he came on.

But the other ones were well, disastrous.   Not because the players did anything particularly wrong in my mind, it just killed the momentum we had. I hear the manager say we needed more energy, well. How about being able to keep the ball better? Leaving the players on that we’re creating chances when we were still relatively on top?

I’m not getting into a Moore out etc thing, I can’t be arsed with that, but he does in my mind have to take a long look at how his decisions affected the game last night. He has gone on about people being accountable etc on the pitch when they’ve made mistakes, he needs to do it after last night. 
 

As Owling said though. What a game. It was a real demonstration of not all the best football is played in the Premier League. It was end to end, there was some fantastic passages of play, it had a bit of needle at times too. 
But ultimately it will be remembered for us faltering at the last.

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I've calmed down.......a bit. 

If we play like that first 70 minutes we'll be absolutely fine, I really enjoyed it, but, we all know this won't be the first time we self implode due to our managers decision. 

If you are going to freshen up, take Smith off for Gregory and if Windass is knackered bring Mighten on. They were pushing on and had left lots of space behind. As I said this won't be last time he will cost us. It's clear the players are good enough but is Moore.

And Stockdale 🤔 frightens me to death. One in 2nd half he tried to play it out and it just needed smashing. Every player gave him a mouth full for not

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One thing I genuinely don’t get is the constant nit picking at Stockdale. First game aside, for me anyway, he’s been largely good. I’ll admit there’s elements to his game he could do better with, like their first goal last night. 
BUT… no one is saying anything about his double save and smothering up the third attempt in almost as many seconds.

Yeah, he plays it out from the back, but that’s under instruction. And IIRC he didn’t give the ball away last night doing it… 

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4 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said:

One thing I genuinely don’t get is the constant nit picking at Stockdale. First game aside, for me anyway, he’s been largely good. I’ll admit there’s elements to his game he could do better with, like their first goal last night. 
BUT… no one is saying anything about his double save and smothering up the third attempt in almost as many seconds.

Yeah, he plays it out from the back, but that’s under instruction. And IIRC he didn’t give the ball away last night doing it… 

He’s the best keeper with his feet we have ever had. By quite a distance too.

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No matter how you look at it other managers can outthink DM, he never has any second plan in a game. I am still concerned that the number of injuries in training, and leading to knackered players in a game is accidental. There has been something lacking in that area.for quite a few seasons now.

His post match interviews are proof he is not up to the job. 

 

 

 

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While I get that many people are pissed off with these costly mistakes that are being attributed to either, the manager or the players. If the manager was to get the heave ho, and I'm not advocating things either way as I genuinely can't be bothered. 

It's a question for those that do want him out, who would you rather have in charge? Who's available right now?

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We were brillinat first half and should have been out of sight.

Taking off bannan and windass definitely gave them weird fuckers a lift

smith should have scored, no 2 ways about it

Their goal was coming, a couple of penalty shouts and one off the line, but after taking them 2 off we invited pressure on ourselves

had enough of seeing iorfa and patterson in a wednesday shirt and that little shit jamie smith annoys me, i've mellowed towrads moore and hope he's the man to get us up, but just dont think he has the killer instinct, but the football we played first half was great to watch

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Someone mentioned on here last night that we have played the current top 7 sides in the league, yet we’ve taken just 5 points from those games.

Why is that, when we’ve got arguably the best squad and first team XI in this division? 

As the saying goes, you’re only as strong as your weakest link - and for me it’s blatantly obvious where that is.

I don’t want to be calling for the head of our manager and I hate doing that sort of thing, especially as I like and respect Moore as a person - but if he doesn’t learn, and learn quickly, we’ll be making posts similar to these, calling him out on his tactics and on the pitch decisions, for the remainder of the season.

And it may well cost us promotion.

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22 minutes ago, Bellsview said:

Someone mentioned on here last night that we have played the current top 7 sides in the league, yet we’ve taken just 5 points from those games.

Why is that, when we’ve got arguably the best squad and first team XI in this division? 

As the saying goes, you’re only as strong as your weakest link - and for me it’s blatantly obvious where that is.

I don’t want to be calling for the head of our manager and I hate doing that sort of thing, especially as I like and respect Moore as a person - but if he doesn’t learn, and learn quickly, we’ll be making posts similar to these, calling him out on his tactics and on the pitch decisions, for the remainder of the season.

And it may well cost us promotion.

The irony being it was our soft underbelly against the lesser teams last season which cost us as we were strong against the top 6 sides

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2 hours ago, HoylandOwl said:

One thing I genuinely don’t get is the constant nit picking at Stockdale. First game aside, for me anyway, he’s been largely good. I’ll admit there’s elements to his game he could do better with, like their first goal last night. 
BUT… no one is saying anything about his double save and smothering up the third attempt in almost as many seconds.

Yeah, he plays it out from the back, but that’s under instruction. And IIRC he didn’t give the ball away last night doing it… 

Your right he's doing it under instruction. He did give it away that time I mentioned 2nd half and ALL players were giving him pelters and that time in 1st half where he just flicked it past on rushing forward. Madness. There's a time and place. Port Vale he was constantly kicking it out. Yes he made a couple of saves but they were straight at him. He's not the root cause of our problem but a part. Frightens me to death, but as you say a lot is under instruction 

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1 hour ago, HoylandOwl said:

While I get that many people are pissed off with these costly mistakes that are being attributed to either, the manager or the players. If the manager was to get the heave ho, and I'm not advocating things either way as I genuinely can't be bothered. 

It's a question for those that do want him out, who would you rather have in charge? Who's available right now?

It's a fair point. Only time will tell, but I just can't get rid of feeling he will not get us top 2 no matter how long he's here. Put it this way, I think Paul Warne  will have Derby ahead of us at end of season. If we had been brave and gone got him in my opinion we'd go up. Obviously no idea if he'd have accepted. 

Having said that Moore has without question attracted quality players and I can see why he should be given time but gut says it won't happen under him and with this side, it should. 

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Is it Moore or the Chairman's money that is attracting players?

He admits we fell short at the end. Why was that? Some dumbass substitutions and no credible plan B.

On a different subject , I heard rumours in Rotherham that Dawson may be joining them.

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9 minutes ago, bricat said:

Is it Moore or the Chairman's money that is attracting players?

He admits we fell short at the end. Why was that? Some dumbass substitutions and no credible plan B.

On a different subject , I heard rumours in Rotherham that Dawson may be joining them.

Well yes tbf, money, as always has a lot to do with it

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On 04/10/2022 at 23:28, MAL said:

Not many people will like this, but...

I like Paterson, but...

Only in certain circumstances, tonight was absolute bollocks.

All i can is yes we needed substitutes...

But for a so called manager, to do that, it was disgraceful.

Paterson was the right substitution on Saturday vs Port Vale but it should've been Gregory on for Windass on Tuesday night if he had to make the change.

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On 04/10/2022 at 20:41, Neville Facking Bartos said:

Played really well after equalising and really should have capitalised 

They’ve come back into it since about 25-30 minute mark and we’ve been forced to go longer and it’s not really sticking.

 

On 04/10/2022 at 21:18, MAL said:

They have brought some midfield runners on now.

So

Send for the DeleBashiru to show them how it's done

Sometimes substitutions work and sometimes they don't.

Having read back through the thread in the cold light of day, I found these two in the moment posts. Both utterly fair in the moment and perhaps suggestive of what DM was trying to do...the FDB one is obvious and maybe he takes Bannan off because he'd picked up a knock earlier in the game. If the balls not sticking and we're going long then you want Patterson up there...?

I'm not suggesting DMs perfect, far from it, but we created enough chances to win that game twice over last night...there's only so much the manager can do IMO and on occasion he gets stick for stuff he ultimately can't control.

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On 05/10/2022 at 10:34, HoylandOwl said:

While I get that many people are pissed off with these costly mistakes that are being attributed to either, the manager or the players. If the manager was to get the heave ho, and I'm not advocating things either way as I genuinely can't be bothered. 

It's a question for those that do want him out, who would you rather have in charge? Who's available right now?

You see this is it, there's nobody you can guarantee will do a better job. Seems folk want change in the hope of an Alex Neill type bounce, if we just change in hope I'd rather leave it with Moore.

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12 hours ago, Otto_Man said:

 

Sometimes substitutions work and sometimes they don't.

Having read back through the thread in the cold light of day, I found these two in the moment posts. Both utterly fair in the moment and perhaps suggestive of what DM was trying to do...the FDB one is obvious and maybe he takes Bannan off because he'd picked up a knock earlier in the game. If the balls not sticking and we're going long then you want Patterson up there...?

I'm not suggesting DMs perfect, far from it, but we created enough chances to win that game twice over last night...there's only so much the manager can do IMO and on occasion he gets stick for stuff he ultimately can't control.

Sometimes substitutions don't work because it was the wrong substitutions.

I wanted it changed because they were just tearing through us after they made their subs.

But never in a million years did I want or even thought that our two most influential players and arguably the two most influential players on the pitch,  were going to be taken off.

As for Paterson, I don't mind him because he can fill a lot of positions, but for me not upfront in a match that we needed to stretch them, either Gregory comes on or we go for speed and stick Mighten up top with Smith. 

Moore totally got it wrong and should have held his hands up.

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2 hours ago, bricat said:

The pussyfooting attitude to resting players for another fixture is beyond common sense. Smith has complained that his delayed start to the season because of a foot injury, when he was prepared to play was ridiculous.

Look back at what Tylluan said about Smith in his last few months at Rotherham.

Apparently Smith had been playing with the injury for months and they were injecting him week to week to keep him in games. Personally I don’t mind the safety first approach knowing that. We’ve made so many fuck ups with injuries it’s nice to know one was dealt with properly.

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3 hours ago, MAL said:

Sometimes substitutions don't work because it was the wrong substitutions.

I wanted it changed because they were just tearing through us after they made their subs.

But never in a million years did I want or even thought that our two most influential players and arguably the two most influential players on the pitch,  were going to be taken off.

As for Paterson, I don't mind him because he can fill a lot of positions, but for me not upfront in a match that we needed to stretch them, either Gregory comes on or we go for speed and stick Mighten up top with Smith. 

Moore totally got it wrong and should have held his hands up.

I wondered at the time if Windass wasn't taken off before he was sent off. He twice had a set to with the lino on our side, over some decisions Windass thought were wrong, the second time the ref came over and booked him, shortly after that Windass was subbed.

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16 hours ago, Billysboy said:

You see this is it, there's nobody you can guarantee will do a better job. Seems folk want change in the hope of an Alex Neill type bounce, if we just change in hope I'd rather leave it with Moore.

I hate League 1 with a passion, but I'd rather stay here and watch a DM team than appoint any sort of manager who would play the style of football Neill does

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25 minutes ago, lyn_owl said:

I wondered at the time if Windass wasn't taken off before he was sent off. He twice had a set to with the lino on our side, over some decisions Windass thought were wrong, the second time the ref came over and booked him, shortly after that Windass was subbed.

Never spotted that Lyn, could have been a factor in the decision, but you would have thought DM would have mentioned it if so. 

I guess everybody is still guessing 🤪

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On 06/10/2022 at 10:03, owl4ever1867 said:

Paterson was the right substitution on Saturday vs Port Vale but it should've been Gregory on for Windass on Tuesday night if he had to make the change.

And also vs Wycombe.  If you want someone to chase down the opposition defenders late on in a game, chasing the ball like a puppy does, Pato's your man.  I don't think we've anyone who puts more into that rôle.  Some of our players were knackered by then and Baz hadn't looked as fit since he got crocked once or twice.  If it had worked before, a couple of times recently, you can see why the manager would reach for his trusty 13 again. Wrong or right, his call. 

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7 hours ago, bricat said:

The pussyfooting attitude to resting players for another fixture is beyond common sense. Smith has complained that his delayed start to the season because of a foot injury, when he was prepared to play was ridiculous.

I've just read an interview with him in which he says that, with hindsight, it was the right decision. 

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3 hours ago, lyn_owl said:

I wondered at the time if Windass wasn't taken off before he was sent off. He twice had a set to with the lino on our side, over some decisions Windass thought were wrong, the second time the ref came over and booked him, shortly after that Windass was subbed.

That's right.  It was in front of where we were stood: even more so Lyn who was at the front.  She'll have been giving that Lino some right stick!   😉

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