Tewksbury

Our form without him would have seen us champions both seasons in L1.

10 minutes ago, Andyben said:

Nobody ever remembers season two of The Mighty Ducks or Jossys Giants  tho... Which is what we effectively were last time round under DR 

Try it when it's quiet.

Half the time it will just get lost in the crowd, they still get loads of tweets and replies.

I've had a few replies from both about random stuff, but they can come at odd times.

25 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said:

Right, if that’s the case then I misheard it, and I’d apologise!

Could have misheard it myself. You never really know when people are speaking in second languages, what he says and what he wants to say aren't necessarily the same thing.

We'll probably know by this time next week.

5 minutes ago, Alan Finney said:

I agree with you  Teddy. Way too big a job to do all at once. What is it? Around 20 players contracted or loans that could potentially leave? Massive task to do at one hit with possibly catastrophic consequences, just too many new arrivals that just don't know each other and have to be inducted. Got Xisco written all over it.

Makes sense to retain a nucleus of some of the players that are coming out of contract.

Just hope we avoid what seemed to be panic signings just to fill holes like we appear to have done previously.

 

The loans have to go back anyway.

Most of the others aren't regulars and those that are are over 30.

Get rid, clean slate. There are enough players still under contract to provide continuity and those are the players we should be building round, not artificially extending the careers of a few players due to misplaced loyalty.

36 minutes ago, Teddy Nickelarse said:

Don't agree but what I've learned is that once opinions on players has been formed no persuasion to the contrary is ever effective. Agree to differ. 

Do you believe that Bannan can play in a standard 2 man midfield?

23 minutes ago, Teddy Nickelarse said:

I expect him to be offered terms. I don’t  for one nano second expect Danny to base the whole team around him. 

Of Bannan starts, Röhl will have to.

6 minutes ago, EastCraigsOwl said:

Scenario:

Bannan gets informed he's not getting a new contract. Let's say he then storms into a Teams chat saying, "aw tae fuck, man, that Gerry **** hasnae offered me a new deal. Whey the fuck diz he think he is? Ahm no happy. Efter ivrythin ah've done for this club. Fuckin' erse. Am fuckin' gutted, so ah am. Time tae cause some bother lads. Are ye all in?"

If you're a current player who DR has offered a new deal, what do you do?

a - sign the contract, join forces with Bazza and disrupt for a couple of weeks before being shown the door for gross misconduct (or, more likely, left to rot in the reserves for 2 / 3 years); or

b - appreciate that your manager rates you enough and wants you to be part of his plans. Tough shit Baz, that's football mate.

Why would we require to have that confirmed if he's under contract?

He's pretty much here until he leaves. There's nothing to confirm.

Has anyone thought that the reason they haven't offered contracts is to avoid this exact situation?

8 minutes ago, Teddy Nickelarse said:

I think it fair to say that our opinions on Bannan are irreconcilably different.

I agree with the bit in bold and have stated that whilst I expect contracts to be offered to Bannan, Palmer, Vaulks and Windass the length of term and remuneration must be appropriate. The way the wage bill has contracted in the last couple of years suggests that lessons have been learned.  They may decline terms offered. I suspect that Danny is pragmatic as well as being a very talented manager/coach and that we'll see that evidenced when the retained list is announced. 

On a tangent I think that we'll  soon hear confirmation that DR will be the one leading us forward. 

Bannan is living off the past.

It's a different game where teamwork, physicality and discipline win games.

Yes, he can find a pass, but these days so can most midfielders, he's nothing special anymore. Definitely not special enough to have your whole team based on him, which is the only reason he's still relevant.

21 minutes ago, Teddy Nickelarse said:

It will evolve dramatically over the next two summers with tweaks in January. With the raft of new players that we already know will need to come in we'll need solid players like Bannan, Vaulks, Palmer etc to help with the evolution though they may not be automatic first choices. I suspect that Röhl values them more than you do which is why I am co fident that they'll  be offered fresh terms - commensurate with their ages and value. We'll  know soon enough.

 

See, I'm not sure how much influence Röhl has on Barry staying.

BB has said that Chansiri has said that as long as he has legs, he has a contract. Barry also believes that he's too good for L1, so I can't see him accepting a supporting role, and he has enough influence in the dressing room and at the club to fuck us if he throws his teddy out.

Look at the Boro game. "It's hard to captain when you don't know if you have a contract". The only players really affected in that game were the ones mentioned above.

Also, on a personal note, the fact that he would leave if we went down, means all loyalty is now gone, offer him a contract, but offer him a low one and see how much interest he gets. I'll bet it's nowhere near what he thinks.

We're where we are due to keeping overpaid players well past time, and now it's time for the current crop.

3 minutes ago, Teddy Nickelarse said:

Personally thank that this is simplistic - apologies.

Just with players that we pretty much know will be leaving at the end of their agreements there'll be a need to recruit 9 or 10 - a big task already.  In reality there may be a couple more with contracted players not getting much game time under Röhl who he'd  likely prefer to move on.

Offering fresh terms to players that Röhl  clearly values would IMO just indicate a prudent evolution.

 

 

Is it?

Does Röhl clearly value, or is he making do? We're playing the way our squad dictates.

He's on record as saying he wants to play with 2 x 6s.

He wants to play a back 4.

When we've tried it, it's been a disaster, due to not having the players to fit it.

Bannan stops the midfield 2 working, it's why we have Baz and Vaulks, with Palmer floating between defence and mid. Half of our setup is covering for Bannan. But he doesn't warrant it anymore.

We have no decent LB, so wingbacks it is. If Pederson had been fit, James better, or we had signed Schultz, we'd be playing a back 4 and Johnson wouldn't get a look in.

Chansiri seems to have a very "got one at home" type of man.

So if we already have players for these positions, is he going to fund more or tell Röhl to work with what we have?

Everybody bangs on about Ipswich, but their system is based on having a system, then recruiting to fill it.

We do the opposite and if we want to move forward and see what Röhl can really do, then we need to cut nearly all the long standing players loose.

5 minutes ago, bazapeps said:

the usual telling people what they think 

This is about the Star.

Who are banging on like mad about the amount of players leaving, so to assume that they'll be ecstatic if a lot of them stay, especially the likes of Windass, Bannan and Palmer, isn't much of a stretch.

So where, again, am I telling anyone what to think?

I am making a point that a big clear out, based on Röhl's comments, will indicate that Röhl has the confidence to replace them with upgrades, a big retained list indicates the opposite. 

11 minutes ago, M42Owl said:

The quote I saw a few weeks ago had Rohl as saying (so not a journalist inferring) something along the lines of “don’t want many pre season matches”, “want to concentrate on the coaching / training camp”, “two matches at most”.

I concluded (guess) that there’ll be a game in Germany and one/two back home, but the last will be no less than 10-14 days before kick off.

He said he didn't want a lot of games during camps, one a week at most, so that he could get a full week's training in between matches and not waste the camp on game preparation. On a normal year, preseason is usually about 6 weeks long.

His quote sounded like it was more a 'were going to camp to train' and less of a '2 week sunshine tour with 4 exhibition games and a bit of training in between.'

It also sounded like each week will be focused on a different thing, so likely he will want some sort of game at the end of each week to consolidate and test.

21 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said:

So what you're suggesting then is, we won't do with DR said he wants to do?

He says he wants 1 game a week.

Preseason is more than 2 weeks long, he just wants 2 week long camps within the longer preseason.

There will still be 4-5 games.

1 game a week, 2 camps of a week each and a couple of weeks at Middlewood.

1 cobweb blower v Alfreton or somebody like that pretty much straight away.

1st camp game.

2nd camp game.

Consolidation game v L1-L2 to fine tune.

Test game v decent opposition.

Would it be better to let Beadle go and go for Okonkwo, Vitek or even have a punt at Johanssen rather than potentially get burnt by waiting for Beadle to finish preseason with Brighton?

Seems a bit suicidal to me to leave it that late, when an injury to one of their main keepers could mean we have no first choice keeper heading into the season with all the other decent candidates signed for other teams.

Rohl said in an interview at some point that who got released was based on who he could get in to replace them.

The funny thing is, they'll be ecstatic if we retain loads of players, but retaining too many will be a sign for concern because Röhl doesn't think he can replace them.

Watching Eurovision with the family.

Trying to decide whether to spend 15p on a vote for some Finnish dude who lost his pants.

1 minute ago, Tylluan said:

Thing is if those figures are true then it puts a price on our management team's heads that could be met by quite a few teams. What if Burnley ditched Kompany or Diche left Everton?

No transfer fee of that size is paid as a lump sum. It could be split over the term of the new contract, or paid up on promotion to the PL, if it's another championship club. 

For an untested manager though?

It's OK getting a few wins at the bottom of the Championship, but surely they'll want to see how he does when you have to consistently grind out wins for a promotion push and the tactical stuff won't be as effective in the PL.

Is it me or are we going to end up with 7175 keepers and 80085 right backs next season?

6 minutes ago, Theman said:

The main thing he gave us apart from good coaching and improved fitness was belief, we got some right tonkings but shrugged them off, bounced back, bar Middlesboro, they never seemed to alter the psyche 👍

The main thing missing was coaching.

All of our old players have played at this level before, they aren't League One players as many have said.

Look at them now compared to under DM. Even Xisco said it with the learner driver comment. They were beginners and couldn't do the basics required.

The individual quality was never a problem. That's how they got promoted when the tactic was 'shoehorn the best 11 players into the team and hoof it into the box'

Now they have actual tactics and play as a team, they're a much different proposition. 

Joe Crann has put that we're going for him.

Barry Bannan has also replied "to be continued" on the original Instagram post so it may not be the end.

He's a Barnsley fan from tik tok who's been kicking off about Wednesday since he started. He's only been on YouTube a few weeks.

He's never pretended to be a proper non biased whatever they are.

Don't take it seriously, he doesn't. 

Bet he's absolutely loving the reactions in here and OT.

23 minutes ago, mkowl said:

You see I didn't really see clinical 

Even in the last game v Sunderland it was modest margins that make all the difference - and the Championship you can very quickly go from winning 3 in a row to losing 3 in a row, with little difference in how you played 

It is like I say a very subjective view, I said we would finish 18th - 20th - that is where we ended up. But it was very chalk and cheese way of getting there. 

I don't think any of us would be thrilled if Chansiri came out, focused on the 2nd half of the season and said lets just re-sign all those players. Least thrilled would be Rohl 

Not saying resign them.

Not happy with resigning Bannan already.

But it wouldn't take much to move us up the table, as you said, fine margins.

This season we went for it and pretty much won or got battered. Good tactics and coaching can stifle most normal teams, so we got results, but as soon as we hit the better players who could deal with it, we got battered.

Look at this with our results.

12 minutes ago, mkowl said:

I do get your point. On an objective test measure - ie points on the board then it stacks up. 

On a more subjective level, it never felt this was a play off capability squad. 

Put it another way, in a very hypothetical question, if we started next season with Rohl, this squad would you be confident of finishing in the play off positions ?

I just judge this on how we performed v the play off contenders

Leeds 1 point

Southampton 0 point

WBA 3 points

Norwich 1 point 

But it's the manner of some of those defeats - we were so far behind them.

This is not decrying their achievements, but it was done with a mindset of avoiding relegation. Job done. 

But to me there were too many flaws, weaknesses that would be found out. 

I mean the contract situation throws the debate out the window, but we saw an uplift in quality in January. That needs to be maintained but I look round the pitch and see several other positions that need it. More prevalent is I think Rohl realises it 

But we were very clinical in putting the teams around us away.

Like Wigan 2 years ago in L1, terrible against any top 6 side, but only dropped single digit points v the bottom half and finished with the title.

If we can keep up that type of form, but just improve enough to drag more teams into tthatsame level or a bit lower bracket then there's no reason not to push playoffs.

This season, a decent set piece coach could have put us much higher with the amount of avoidable set piece goals we conceded.

11 minutes ago, mkowl said:

Interesting point but he did say that pre season and perhaps it was the January signings that made the difference and Rohl.

As much as we under achieved with Xisco, I think we did overachieve somewhat with Rohl.

And without improvement thereto I am not sure Rohl could maintain it longer term. 

My pre season estimate was about 18th to 20th - subject to signings - which is sort of where we ended up. But not quite the roller coaster way we got there.

 

How much at the start of the season though was fitness, players not settled, not speaking English, injuries, availability? Only about 8 first team players completed the full preseason, even then they were completely shell shocked at the pace of the games.

Even refs. We had some games near the start turn on very questionable refereeing decisions. Even though we weren't getting the points, most games we were competing and had chances to win or at least draw.

Our resurgence is as much to do with fitness and players getting used to the league as anything else.

I'd say, given a full preseason and early signings, there's no reason this side couldn't have kept up the momentum for most of the season.