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6 hours ago, Owling_Wolf said:

You need counselling, fella.  😉

Depends on your definition, but on every marker at present outside of tradition then our neighbours are ahead 

And the reason we are shit is because people are deluded by their perceived importance of tradition.

The grim reality is for any one under 35 the answer is pretty clear 

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15 minutes ago, mkowlthesexynewversion said:

Depends on your definition, but on every marker at present outside of tradition then our neighbours are ahead 

And the reason we are shit is because people are deluded by their perceived importance of tradition.

The grim reality is for any one under 35 the answer is pretty clear 

Think of it this way, we've never seen a Wednesday top division game in Wide-screen TV.

 

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10 hours ago, Andyben said:

It doesn't affect Wenzdi, so why worry. If we were one of the top English teams that weren't involved them maybe, but we're not even the top team in Sheffield 

Why? The game has been pulled from pillar to post already, in a few short weeks we've got the World Cup happening where it shouldn't be but is just because of money. That's all the reason why the Super League thing is being thought of, it's not about competition, or finding out who's the best in Europe. Isn't that the idea of the Chumpions League already, which in itself has made a mockery of our top division and the others who have more than 1 team qualifying with the whole, 'oh we need to get into the top 4/3/2'. It's not the 'Champions' League, it's the who finished in the top 4 league. 

The super league isn't going to cater for the fans of the clubs involved who have been going to games all their lives, a 20 team league, played home and away across Europe isn't something that the majority can attend is it? It's purely a TV and commercial spectacle. Sorry, but IMO that's bollocks. While times often move on, such as the likely 3pm TV blackout change, I think it's the death knell for domestic leagues across Europe as we know them now if the Super League comes in. There won't be promotion to it, or relegation from it. Yeah, the proposals were said that it would be something that would be considered, but I can't see the likes of Juve and Real who have been staunch supporters of a potential super league despite all the vitriol against it, agreeing to it happening. Those clubs are desperate for the money, because of the massive debts they have, and those debts won't be wiped out, they'll get even bigger when player power becomes even more prevalent and wages rise beyond the astronomical levels already with the likes of Mbappe continuing to have influence beyond their on pitch roles. The Super League is bugger all to do with 'competition' which the game is built upon, it's built on money and greed.

That's why I don't want it to happen. I'm not saying your wrong btw, it's your opinion and you're entitled to it pal. That's what this place is for, discussion. 🙂

On the second point, you're right. We've not been the top team in our city for quite some time. But that can, and I remain optimistic that, it will, change. Just as it did change their way previously.

 

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1 hour ago, mkowlthesexynewversion said:

Depends on your definition, but on every marker at present outside of tradition then our neighbours are ahead 

And the reason we are shit is because people are deluded by their perceived importance of tradition.

The grim reality is for any one under 35 the answer is pretty clear 

They might technically be above us, but everyone knows who the top team in Sheffield are

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If it happens then fans will treat it as a weekend away with a trip to a football game. There'll still be a hard core that go, as they do to Champions and Europa League, but this is where some form of distancing in regards to fan behaviour has to come into play. If it kicks off in Paris or Madrid then there has to be a line drawn that they're not English hooligans but part of a European league problem. Sanctions should not be given across the board for the actions of clubs playing outside of the domestic system 

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1 hour ago, Paul from Wisewood said:

They might technically be above us, but everyone knows who the top team in Sheffield are

Everyone over 40 who is already a Wednesday fan maybe 

I promise you a very subtle point 25 years ago down here if I said I was from Sheffield and liked football it was " so Wednesday" 

Now its more "so Utd" - I then punch them of course so they realise their huge error 

I will repeat, the reason we continue to be shit is that people like your good self believe the above to be the case. Rather than shouting why the fuck are we in League 1 and playing in some crap arse thing called the Papa Johns trophy 

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41 minutes ago, Tylluan said:

If it happens then fans will treat it as a weekend away with a trip to a football game. There'll still be a hard core that go, as they do to Champions and Europa League, but this is where some form of distancing in regards to fan behaviour has to come into play. If it kicks off in Paris or Madrid then there has to be a line drawn that they're not English hooligans but part of a European league problem. Sanctions should not be given across the board for the actions of clubs playing outside of the domestic system 

I am sure there is an attraction to Barcelona away 

Paris can fuck off as its full of thieving scrotes 

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I hope that if it does go ahead and the top 6 teams in this country join it, that we see a return to a more competitive domestic league system where on opening day every team feels they have a genuine chance of winning a trophy rather than classing mid-table as success. 

That would probably come at the cost of quality as money drains from the league, but I’d rather see a season full of close, poorer quality games than see Man City win 6-0 every other week with a bench that would qualify for the Champions League itself. 

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5 minutes ago, mkowlthesexynewversion said:

Everyone over 40 who is already a Wednesday fan maybe 

I promise you a very subtle point 25 years ago down here if I said I was from Sheffield and liked football it was " so Wednesday" 

Now its more "so Utd" - I then punch them of course so they realise their huge error 

I will repeat, the reason we continue to be shit is that people like your good self believe the above to be the case. Rather than shouting why the fuck are we in League 1 and playing in some crap arse thing called the Papa Johns trophy 

Bertie’s will forever be in our shadow 

 

unless they get taken over Man City style 😬

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11 minutes ago, LiamOwl said:

I hope that if it does go ahead and the top 6 teams in this country join it, that we see a return to a more competitive domestic league system where on opening day every team feels they have a genuine chance of winning a trophy rather than classing mid-table as success. 

That would probably come at the cost of quality as money drains from the league, but I’d rather see a season full of close, poorer quality games than see Man City win 6-0 every other week with a bench that would qualify for the Champions League itself. 

That’s it’s only redeeming feature, but, then as you say the money will drain, and then it could come at a cost of clubs going by the wayside.

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From a purely footballing sense, they are quite a way ahead of us. Even by the virtue that in the last 20 years they’ve had 3 years in the top flight, more years in the top half of the second year. But, they have also spent six years in the third tier (this is our 6th year).

There are other important stats, they have had more success at Academy level, both on and off the field. As of now, they are getting more fans through the gates (although that is just a recent thing).

Another sobering example is that Wednesday haven’t been on regular Match of the Day since 2000.

Just on the ESL, they are clearly wanting to replace the champions league. 

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3 minutes ago, KrolMong said:

From a purely footballing sense, they are quite a way ahead of us. Even by the virtue that in the last 20 years they’ve had 3 years in the top flight, more years in the top half of the second year. But, they have also spent six years in the third tier (this is our 6th year).

There are other important stats, they have had more success at Academy level, both on and off the field. As of now, they are getting more fans through the gates (although that is just a recent thing).

Another sobering example is that Wednesday haven’t been on regular Match of the Day since 2000.

Just on the ESL, they are clearly wanting to replace the champions league. 

To quantify that 

 

They are forever in our shadow the DRAWBs

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On 20/10/2022 at 07:55, HoylandOwl said:

Why? The game has been pulled from pillar to post already, in a few short weeks we've got the World Cup happening where it shouldn't be but is just because of money. That's all the reason why the Super League thing is being thought of, it's not about competition, or finding out who's the best in Europe. Isn't that the idea of the Chumpions League already, which in itself has made a mockery of our top division and the others who have more than 1 team qualifying with the whole, 'oh we need to get into the top 4/3/2'. It's not the 'Champions' League, it's the who finished in the top 4 league. 

The super league isn't going to cater for the fans of the clubs involved who have been going to games all their lives, a 20 team league, played home and away across Europe isn't something that the majority can attend is it? It's purely a TV and commercial spectacle. Sorry, but IMO that's bollocks. While times often move on, such as the likely 3pm TV blackout change, I think it's the death knell for domestic leagues across Europe as we know them now if the Super League comes in. There won't be promotion to it, or relegation from it. Yeah, the proposals were said that it would be something that would be considered, but I can't see the likes of Juve and Real who have been staunch supporters of a potential super league despite all the vitriol against it, agreeing to it happening. Those clubs are desperate for the money, because of the massive debts they have, and those debts won't be wiped out, they'll get even bigger when player power becomes even more prevalent and wages rise beyond the astronomical levels already with the likes of Mbappe continuing to have influence beyond their on pitch roles. The Super League is bugger all to do with 'competition' which the game is built upon, it's built on money and greed.

That's why I don't want it to happen. I'm not saying your wrong btw, it's your opinion and you're entitled to it pal. That's what this place is for, discussion. 🙂

On the second point, you're right. We've not been the top team in our city for quite some time. But that can, and I remain optimistic that, it will, change. Just as it did change their way previously.

 

That's a superb post. Spot on, IMO.    

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4 hours ago, Andyben said:

So @HoylandOwl you'd prefer a miserable 1-1 draw at Lincoln then a 1-1 draw in front of 80k at the Bernabau.

Why?

Again, I’m not saying we shouldn’t aim to be the best we can be, not at all. 
Of course I’d love to see us play at the Bernabeu, it would be amazing. But not in a ‘super league’ if it was at the cost of the fabric of the game and the competition that it’s been long built upon being destroyed. 

The competition that we’ve had across all leagues, has been built on the successes of the clubs, promotions and relegations. Not being thrown into a faux ‘league’ because of a bidding war based on money. Yes money has bought success for clubs like Chelsea, Man City et al, over the last few decades, but we have still seen anomalies like Leicester winning the Premier League and dare I even say it, those down the road pushing the big boys on a much smaller budget. It can still happen, although it’s not as frequent as it used to be. 

As much as the Champions league is a mockery of its name, it’s at least something you have to qualify for. You get there on merit, results, not because the chairman of the deluded and not very well run clubs decide you should be there.

Being totally honest, I’m falling out with football a little, and that’s a combination of many things. It being ruined and ruled by money being one of them, and another factor being like I mentioned in the match day post from yesterday. The aggression and abuse that some people think is acceptable to dish out is beyond me. Yes, I get people get frustrated, of course, but abusing people isn’t motivational or right. Or if these people think it is, and it’s ok, then maybe I should just stop going altogether. 

No, I don’t want it all cum by arr and holding hands, we all give it a FFsake from time to time and that’s fine, it’s frustration. But there’s a big difference between that and verbal abuse. 
 

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16 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said:

Again, I’m not saying we shouldn’t aim to be the best we can be, not at all. 
Of course I’d love to see us play at the Bernabeu, it would be amazing. But not in a ‘super league’ if it was at the cost of the fabric of the game and the competition that it’s been long built upon being destroyed. 

The competition that we’ve had across all leagues, has been built on the successes of the clubs, promotions and relegations. Not being thrown into a faux ‘league’ because of a bidding war based on money. Yes money has bought success for clubs like Chelsea, Man City et al, over the last few decades, but we have still seen anomalies like Leicester winning the Premier League and dare I even say it, those down the road pushing the big boys on a much smaller budget. It can still happen, although it’s not as frequent as it used to be. 

As much as the Champions league is a mockery of its name, it’s at least something you have to qualify for. You get there on merit, results, not because the chairman of the deluded and not very well run clubs decide you should be there.

Being totally honest, I’m falling out with football a little, and that’s a combination of many things. It being ruined and ruled by money being one of them, and another factor being like I mentioned in the match day post from yesterday. The aggression and abuse that some people think is acceptable to dish out is beyond me. Yes, I get people get frustrated, of course, but abusing people isn’t motivational or right. Or if these people think it is, and it’s ok, then maybe I should just stop going altogether. 

No, I don’t want it all cum by arr and holding hands, we all give it a FFsake from time to time and that’s fine, it’s frustration. But there’s a big difference between that and verbal abuse. 
 

Yeah that fairytale moment of Leicesters after cheating the system...beautiful 

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29 minutes ago, Reesh said:

Yeah that fairytale moment of Leicesters after cheating the system...beautiful 

Mate you have a point, absolutely, much like Bournemouth too who used a loophole to their advantage. No it doesn't make it right at all, of course not. It proves game here isn't infallible, the Premier League has been a great thing for the global audience, while it's made the rich richer, it's also widened the gap somewhat. But what I mean is that it's still possible or has been to have success without buying players for £75/100m. Again, it's not an inconsiderate sum buying players for £20m, which I think Leicester's record signings were around at the time of their season as champions, it's a lot less than Harry Maguire for £75m and Jack Grealish for £100m etc that we see banded around from the 'top clubs'. 

As much as there are an influx of new fans with new money etc with this global league that the Prem has become, there will still be a significant number of the 'hardcore' support who've been there at the likes of Man City who just won't be able to go to 18 away games a season in Europe. While some will afford it, plenty won't and is it right to price out people going to games just because? I don't know the answer but maybe I'm just becoming an old git and stuck in my ways, I just don't like the game being moved around as it is, and the fans being fucked about without even as much of a thought about them.

 

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2 hours ago, HoylandOwl said:

Again, I’m not saying we shouldn’t aim to be the best we can be, not at all. 
Of course I’d love to see us play at the Bernabeu, it would be amazing. But not in a ‘super league’ if it was at the cost of the fabric of the game and the competition that it’s been long built upon being destroyed. 

The competition that we’ve had across all leagues, has been built on the successes of the clubs, promotions and relegations. Not being thrown into a faux ‘league’ because of a bidding war based on money. Yes money has bought success for clubs like Chelsea, Man City et al, over the last few decades, but we have still seen anomalies like Leicester winning the Premier League and dare I even say it, those down the road pushing the big boys on a much smaller budget. It can still happen, although it’s not as frequent as it used to be. 

As much as the Champions league is a mockery of its name, it’s at least something you have to qualify for. You get there on merit, results, not because the chairman of the deluded and not very well run clubs decide you should be there.

Being totally honest, I’m falling out with football a little, and that’s a combination of many things. It being ruined and ruled by money being one of them, and another factor being like I mentioned in the match day post from yesterday. The aggression and abuse that some people think is acceptable to dish out is beyond me. Yes, I get people get frustrated, of course, but abusing people isn’t motivational or right. Or if these people think it is, and it’s ok, then maybe I should just stop going altogether. 

No, I don’t want it all cum by arr and holding hands, we all give it a FFsake from time to time and that’s fine, it’s frustration. But there’s a big difference between that and verbal abuse. 
 

Calm down Jumpers for Goalposts.

 

I'd be happy in a 24 team NFL model with no relegation if we were in it paying hundreds of millions to world cup stars playing beautiful football each season.

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It's a right hot topic this potential ESL. No relegation? Really.

Football with a closed shop of the elite in that league will change forever. Those clubs whilst wealthy in turnover perspective now will be chasing the dream and paying players, I'd imagine more than now. BUT they are at the mercy of broadcasters and tv right to fund it.

I feel it MAY implode, and if it does with all the European 'super' teams involved so bit.

Imagine the scenario and again I can see it happens, Barcelona, man u, or real Madrid finish bottom 3 years running, they might soon want to get the fck out of there. Fans will set the bar at success at that level.

Domestic leagues in Europe may struggle but I feel, due to our pyramid we might be ok in this Country.

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10 hours ago, Andyben said:

60yeara ago @bricat

With better management and financial backing, we'd have played and beat them more often than that

Our manager that day managed Barcelona within a decade. The reason his contract was not renewed at S6 was purely down to the betting scandal. Whilst Catterick had finished second to Spurs in 60/61 we then had 3 consecutive top 6 finishes, perhaps we should have done better? Who knows what may have happened if that decision to get rid of Buckingham had not been made.

He was a right good golfer though!!

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I would love to see Wednesday in the top flight. And at some point in some form of European competition. But the sad reality is that whilst we could get to the premier league, we are light years behind those teams who challenge for Europe in every way imaginable. 

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