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Victimpool and Everton fans fighting each other?


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44 minutes ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

Weird obsession that Wednesday fans have with scousers, sad 

I think it's the fact that the media portray them as the best fans in the world and they're all loveable with a knowledge of the game. 

When in fact, since the 70s, they've been Stanley knife carrying thugs rampaging, ticketless, through Europe and causing carnage wherever they go and then crying "not me la" 

Throwing Molotov cocktails in front of away team coaches and trying to fire flares through the windows (bricks aren't good enough) Pushing disabled fans in fountains in Barcelona. Climbing the walls at Wembley and I could go on and on.

But I think most Wednesday detest them for is the image they've brought down on our club. In certain eyes, mine included, a portion of their fanbase got off Scot free as others within their community chose to go after the club and the police force and not the idiots that caused the police and club to act in the way they did when the surge started. 

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7 minutes ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

I know exactly why Wednesday fans detest them, without wanting to get too deep into it they’re wrong to though.

Difficult task putting yourself in the shoes of someone who had a loved one that didn’t come home from a football match 

.....no Wednesday fan has ever dismissed that last sentence....awful awful far reaching tragedy......but history was altered in that "justice" campaign....

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Don’t particularly like them as a fan base.  Don’t mind Everton though.  The fact that absolutely nobody from SYP has been, or ever will be, convicted of anything in relation to Hillsborough, and the mass doctoring of evidence that followed, makes me want to puke.  Don’t want to talk about this shit the night we’ve got a vital game.  Millwall and Brum were at it last weekend as well, and a Millwall fan is still in hospital as a result.  So fucking what.

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18 hours ago, Tylluan said:

I think it's the fact that the media portray them as the best fans in the world and they're all loveable with a knowledge of the game. 

When in fact, since the 70s, they've been Stanley knife carrying thugs rampaging, ticketless, through Europe and causing carnage wherever they go and then crying "not me la" 

Throwing Molotov cocktails in front of away team coaches and trying to fire flares through the windows (bricks aren't good enough) Pushing disabled fans in fountains in Barcelona. Climbing the walls at Wembley and I could go on and on.

But I think most Wednesday detest them for is the image they've brought down on our club. In certain eyes, mine included, a portion of their fanbase got off Scot free as others within their community chose to go after the club and the police force and not the idiots that caused the police and club to act in the way they did when the surge started. 

Nail on head mate.

Can’t mention anything about them on the other forum without getting a warning or ban😡

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On 26/04/2022 at 19:37, Neville Facking Bartos said:

No it wasn’t, Taylor got it right then first time

 

 

The first Taylor report - Google it - is one of the best written accounts I have read on the world of football at the time and the culture of it in the 2 decades before. A couple of times when I have seen younger folk researching the topic I tell them to start there first. They will understand more why a Hillsborough arose.

Where I perhaps differ is that I accept the fans behaviour on the day was nothing untoward. It was the norm for a big game, but that routine behaviour was a contributing factor. As were many other factors that themselves would not have caused a disaster.

In the end the disaster arose because of how all combined together on the day, where the police plan to identify and mitigate that risk failed 

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1 hour ago, mkowlthesexynewversion said:

The first Taylor report - Google it - is one of the best written accounts I have read on the world of football at the time and the culture of it in the 2 decades before. A couple of times when I have seen younger folk researching the topic I tell them to start there first. They will understand more why a Hillsborough arose.

Where I perhaps differ is that I accept the fans behaviour on the day was nothing untoward. It was the norm for a big game, but that routine behaviour was a contributing factor. As were many other factors that themselves would not have caused a disaster.

In the end the disaster arose because of how all combined together on the day, where the police plan to identify and mitigate that risk failed 

Agree, it's the fact that the routine behaviour of the time was dismissed as being a contributing factor that riles me and many others.

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1 hour ago, Billysboy said:

Agree, it's the fact that the routine behaviour of the time was dismissed as being a contributing factor that riles me and many others.

Because 

2 hours ago, mkowlthesexynewversion said:

the police plan to identify and mitigate that risk failed 

The only time, well that at least the failure lead to such tragic consequences.

Feels like we're getting somewhere now. I don't expect anyone to stop hating Liverpool, you all have different reasons but a bit of thought when discussing Hillsborough would be good. Fuck me, Sentinel post last night is a disgrace, as is the constant murdering references from MPB. 

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I was at Anfield in 97 when Sheffield Wednesday fans bore the brunt after the Jimmy McGovern Hillsborough drama had aired the week before. We got horrifically treated that day while the local police effectively stood and watched.

And let’s be clear, the one truly innocent group that day in 89 were Wednesday fans. I’ll never ever forgive them for that day in 97.

And my experience of them ever since has never ever been positive when they travel in numbers. They have a horrible fanbase, I’ve encountered them on many occasions, and I have seen the shit they get up too.

I’ll never refer this to Hillsborough. But my experience is that they are the worst fans in the country by an absolute country mile, and at some point in the not too distant future, they are going to get travel and stadium bans thrown at them on a very very big scale.

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I know what the reference is but I know, as do you, that it wasn't murder.

I do accept that the action of some Liverpool fans on that day lead to the death of some Juventus fans but it was not murder. I think you and MPB need to familiarise yourself with the legal meaning of 'murder'. Furthermore, show me all those convicted of murder following those awful events at Heysel. There aren't any, manslaughter charges were brought but not murder so it needs to stop. 

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5 minutes ago, KrolMong said:

I was at Anfield in 97 when Sheffield Wednesday fans bore the brunt after the Jimmy McGovern Hillsborough drama had aired the week before. We got horrifically treated that day while the local police effectively stood and watched.

And let’s be clear, the one truly innocent group that day in 89 were Wednesday fans. I’ll never ever forgive them for that day in 97.

And my experience of them ever since has never ever been positive when they travel in numbers. They have a horrible fanbase, I’ve encountered them on many occasions, and I have seen the shit they get up too.

I’ll never refer this to Hillsborough. But my experience is that they are the worst fans in the country by an absolute country mile, and at some point in the not too distant future, they are going to get travel and stadium bans thrown at them on a very very big scale.

That was the game I was at, December 96, they Jimmy McGovern thing was shown 2 days before ffs. 

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On the various above points and appreciate going over old ground but .....

Comments of murdering is down to Heysel. 

A few factors contributed to that day in April - main cause being the lack of organisation by SYP and the previous semi finals event lead being sidelined and an inexperienced replacement with regards to policing big games being put in place, along with many tanked up Scousers turning up late with the intention of getting in for free, the ground and especially the LL end being a shit show but no different to many grounds and also Liverpool not being allocated the Kop.

The stigma has tarred Wednesday ever since even though football, stadiums and behaviour was a very different landscape in 1989 and common up and down the Country.  What annoys me is how seemingly a lot of people veiw Hillsborough as though it happened at a time when standards were as 2005 not 1989.

As for the lovable rogue scallies at Liverpool just look at the events still going off with opposition teams buses. 

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It was murder.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Heysel-truth-Francesco-Caremani-ebook/dp/B00XL9LABK/ref=sr_1_2?crid=YJIV73Y38DXQ&keywords=heysel&qid=1651141527&s=books&sprefix=heysel%2Cstripbooks%2C60&sr=1-2 

 

“If the British had learned the lesson of Heysel, maybe the Hillsborough tragedy would never have happened”
(Francesco Caremani, author)
Edited by Andyben
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1 hour ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

I know what the reference is but I know, as do you, that it wasn't murder.

I do accept that the action of some Liverpool fans on that day lead to the death of some Juventus fans but it was not murder. I think you and MPB need to familiarise yourself with the legal meaning of 'murder'. Furthermore, show me all those convicted of murder following those awful events at Heysel. There aren't any, manslaughter charges were brought but not murder so it needs to stop. 

At heysel they charged into opposition fans not caring about the consequences, at Hillsborough they charged into their own fans not caring about the consequences, outcome the same.

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Several groups of Liverpool hooligans broke through the boundary between Section X and Z, overpowered the police and charged at the Juventus fans. The fans in the neutral Section Z who were mainly Italian and Belgian families with young children.

 

Murdering *****

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3 hours ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

I know what the reference is but I know, as do you, that it wasn't murder.

I do accept that the action of some Liverpool fans on that day lead to the death of some Juventus fans but it was not murder. I think you and MPB need to familiarise yourself with the legal meaning of 'murder'. Furthermore, show me all those convicted of murder following those awful events at Heysel. There aren't any, manslaughter charges were brought but not murder so it needs to stop. 

 

You really are a thick c u n t aren't you...

 

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The Heysel manslaughter charges were brought about because they had a better chance of conviction than trying to prove murder. They were after conviction numbers rather than 'true cause' to show the Italian government they were doing something. 

The charge at Heysel was premeditated. The lack of CCTV and the image resolution of TV footage at the time make it impossible to provide facial recognition of the ones at the front of the charge. If it happened today then technology would be able to better identify and prosecute for the higher charge. 

The late arrival at Leppings Lane was premeditated. Studies using the latest technology have managed to headcount the footage outside the ground and then compare those numbers to the turnstile clicks of those already in the ground. There's over 1000 extra heads against what should have been left to go in. As the Duckenfield trial was heard under 1989 rulings it couldn't be used. 

The adage of "it was the norm of fans at the time and the police should have been better prepared" doesn't wash. For these fans it was the norm because they thought they could get away with it. They went to Hillsborough and other grounds with the intention of getting away with it. 

And they've not learnt. UEFA estimated over 2000 Liverpool fans tried to gain entry into the 2007 Athens final with forged or no tickets. This led to fans with true tickets not being able to gain entry. There's hundreds of Twitter clips showing them rushing police barriers in an attempt to get in the 2019 final and Benfica have reported ejecting 500 for trying to get in without a ticket at the beginning of this month which resulted in true ticket holders missing the beginning of the game

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1 hour ago, Tylluan said:

 

The late arrival at Leppings Lane was premeditated. Studies using the latest technology have managed to headcount the footage outside the ground and then compare those numbers to the turnstile clicks of those already in the ground. There's over 1000 extra heads against what should have been left to go in. As the Duckenfield trial was heard under 1989 rulings it couldn't be used. 

 

Where’s the source for that please Tyllaun?

Because the Health & Safety Executive report in the Taylor Report says the opposite. That says there were actually less fans than the capacity in the Lepp.

Also, the outside footage does not show any late surge - it’s chaos from around 2:15.

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20 hours ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

Fuckin hell, no wonder you got banned you sick fuck 

What , for actually stating some truths? 
I worked in the steelworks at the time and had mates who lived in Hillsborough, mates who let them into their homes to use the phone only to find them falling down drunk and pissing in their gardens. 
Things that were swept under the carpet by Taylor. 
I also personally know a policeman who, whilst on the field performing CPR was spat on and kicked. Add to that the pub ( The Ball I think) that was ransacked by Liverpool fans and the staff had to lock themselves in the living quarters, none of which got a mention in the official reports. Why? Because it went against the media live in with the jolly scousers. 
Only people like me who had witnessed the reality that was Liverpool will ever speak out about what they are really like 😡

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1 hour ago, Reesh said:

I'm locking this fucker in a bit, it goes round and round every few months like this. 

Blame is spread across everywhere, fans, plod, club, council, government. 

The. End

Don’t, I’m desperate for @Tylluan reply to @cheat 

I’m done in here, genuinely can’t be arsed With some of the stains on our club and city we have on this forum. Just added a 3rd to my block list 

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