Accounts just released

[CasbahOwl]

Over to the ones who understand for a potted summary please 🙏 

 

https://www.swfc.co.uk/news/2024/december/28/annual-accounts-/

[TheExile]

In a nutshell out turnover seems as high as it was when Carlos was here, albeit with more tv payments this time. Wage budget of 19m which is decent but a lot lower than our previous championship wage budgets. 
 

Well within 13m permitted losses and even more so over three years. With DC permitting the under writing of losses so it can be -13m rather than -6. Shows how even a few good loans or a spending spree could tip the 39m balance moving forward tho if we are now around -10m per season and I suspect that goes up this year. Places emphasis again on the need to sell players to facilitate more investment 

[TheExile]

Should add some of that -10m won’t count towards P&S

[HoylandOwl]

 

42 minutes ago, CasbahOwl said:

Over to the ones who understand for a potted summary please 🙏 

 

https://www.swfc.co.uk/news/2024/december/28/annual-accounts-/

When I saw there’d been a release of the accounts…

my first thought was….

Where’s the OO bean counters….😝
The second thought I had was….

Get ready for a naysayer meltdown 

Edited December 28, 2024 by HoylandOwl

[TheExile]

Apologies. Others will know more about this than me, but one thing that jumps out thinking it through is if we are -10m and not all counts toward P&S, my earlier point about the owner under writing as much as possible is drawn into question as we are permitted to lose -13m but if it’s below -9m and closer to the -6 perhaps he’s just running this on the lower end of permitted losses rather than the upper one. It would need a more detailed review but that seems more likely. May be different this season though 

[OptimisticOwl]

Is there any obvious explanation for why they've been released now?

We're often towards the end of the decline, if not beyond it aren't we?

[bradowl]

Without reading report it is certain that those on OT will claim we are in a mess and Chansiri is a bad owner. 🙄 

With star joining in with them producing sensational headlines. 

[TheExile]

There have been some rumours about interested parties looking at the club which could well be BS but presumably they’d want accounts up to date if that was true. Also this does look to me like a tread water scenario financially which is waiting for something similar to when Milan was here 

[Harry Lime]

4 minutes ago, OptimisticOwl said:

Is there any obvious explanation for why they've been released now?

We're often towards the end of the decline, if not beyond it aren't we?

 

1 minute ago, bradowl said:

Without reading report it is certain that those on OT will claim we are in a mess and Chansiri is a bad owner. 🙄 

With star joining in with them producing sensational headlines. 

According to the suicidal sect it's just DC's way of telling DR there's no money to spend. Not sure why he had to publish the accounts though instead of just telling him. They didn't explain that bit.

[Chelters]

Basically a £10m loss and DC has put £10m of cash in.

How the £2.5m rent works is still a little tricky to understand but I suspect it is a non-cash transaction. 

Overall more of the same but it costs more to be in the Championship than League One.

Say what you like about DC but one thing is clear, those who accuse him of taking money out of the club are way way off the mark.

[CasbahOwl]

11 minutes ago, OptimisticOwl said:

Is there any obvious explanation for why they've been released now?

We're often towards the end of the decline, if not beyond it aren't we?

This is what jumped out at me mate!

We’re only 5 months into the allowed 9 months to publish & I’d be extremely surprised if every other club in the EFL don’t take it right up to the wire to publish!

This has been done for a reason….. Hope against hope there’s a buyout incoming……. Whatever it is, these figures have been released now for a reason!

[OptimisticOwl]

19 minutes ago, OptimisticOwl said:

Is there any obvious explanation for why they've been released now?

We're often towards the end of the decline, if not beyond it aren't we?

Just noticed my typo... should have said 'deadline' of course.

[CasbahOwl]

[EBRA]

9 minutes ago, CasbahOwl said:

This is what jumped out at me mate!

We’re only 5 months into the allowed 9 months to publish & I’d be extremely surprised if every other club in the EFL don’t take it right up to the wire to publish!

This has been done for a reason….. Hope against hope there’s a buyout incoming……. Whatever it is, these figures have been released now for a reason!

Prevent inflation of buying prices for players or loans in Jan - as it shows we don’t have lots to spend ?? (Wild guess) 

[CasbahOwl]

Just now, EBRA said:

Prevent inflation of buying prices for players or loans in Jan - as it shows we don’t have lots to spend ?? (Wild guess) 

I haven’t a clue mate …… But if it’s a positive ruse like you suspect, why aren’t others using it?

[Andyben]

People moaning the accounts are early.

😂

[Owling_Wolf]

Reading his comments, where does Mr. Maguires total owed to D.C. come from?

I thought there was just the annually renewable few mill originally borrowed by Mr. Mandaric.

[lobster]

Apparently all EFL clubs now have to file audited accounts by 31 Dec -no mystery

[CasbahOwl]

3 hours ago, lobster said:

Apparently all EFL clubs now have to file audited accounts by 31 Dec -no mystery

But there’s no other club in the entire football league who’ve made them public by releasing them to Companies House!

[Chelters]

8 hours ago, Owling_Wolf said:

Reading his comments, where does Mr. Maguires total owed to D.C. come from?

I thought there was just the annually renewable few mill originally borrowed by Mr. Mandaric.

It is stated in the related party transactions note.

when an owner puts money into a business, in simple terms there are only two ways to record it, you either buy more shares (equity) or just call it a loan. The latter is administratively easier to deal with and also makes it much easier to get money back out again if you ever need to. So it’s not really a loan in the sense that it has a set repayment date or interest, but theoretically he could ask for it back any time he wants and then wind the club up if it can’t pay. Although it would be a huge case of cutting his nose off to spite his face, it’s a fact which seems to elude the perennial agitators 

 

[Chelters]

Sorry there is also a third way in this case which is to actually ‘buy’ things from the club such as sponsorship and advertising, but that has to be at a market rate by EFL rules so can only be so much. 

[Andyben]

13 hours ago, CasbahOwl said:

This has been done for a reason….. Hope against hope there’s a buyout incoming……. Whatever it is, these figures have been released now for a reason!

Anyone interested in buying the club will be getting far more detailed and current financial information than the audited accounts.

 

 

[Owling_Wolf]

1 hour ago, Chelters said:

It is stated in the related party transactions note.

when an owner puts money into a business, in simple terms there are only two ways to record it, you either buy more shares (equity) or just call it a loan. The latter is administratively easier to deal with and also makes it much easier to get money back out again if you ever need to. So it’s not really a loan in the sense that it has a set repayment date or interest, but theoretically he could ask for it back any time he wants and then wind the club up if it can’t pay. Although it would be a huge case of cutting his nose off to spite his face, it’s a fact which seems to elude the perennial agitators 

 

Cheers but does the £61 Mill mentioned by Maguire above include the £50+ mill mentioned below in a thread on here dated 24/9/24?  Shown here...

 

[mkowl]

Note 21 was interesting in that the Club settled a legal dispute on 1 August 2024 paying out £2.5m. I am presuming this was manager related eg Moore. 

It would appear only the legal fees were included in the accounts themselves @Chelterswhat is your view on that ? 

Means we start this financial year at -5m once you add in the rent, which may impact our P & S calcs.

It would explain the cash flow blip 

Otherwise as we long suspect the loss of 10m is funded entirely by DC. Football economics laid bare though, the increase in turnover from TV deals for being in the Championship is fully spent on wages to be competitive in the Championship

[mkowl]

4 minutes ago, Owling_Wolf said:

Cheers but does the £61 Mill mentioned by Maguire above include the £50+ mill mentioned below in a thread on here dated 24/9/24?  Shown here...

 

As Reesh stated the disclosure in the Sheffield 3 accounts was not brilliant. The fact they are not audited should not change that quality but there we go. 

Actually credit to the current auditors in the way the accounts look

[Reesh]

@CasbahOwl I think Plymouth released their Accounts earlier this month too, and Derby.

 

 

[mkowl]

To add Owling, the debt for the sale of the stadium was "cleared" last year. I mean there is accounting alchemy that could be used here, not saying it has, to re-arrange finance without any cash actually moving from A to B. And to clarify nothing dodge about that 

[mkowl]

3 minutes ago, Reesh said:

@CasbahOwl I think Plymouth released their Accounts earlier this month too, and Derby.

 

 

The EFL i think now requires audited accounts by the 31st December. So if that is the case you might as well file em or make them public. Especially nothing too contentious in there 

[Reesh]

Yeah just looked and expect a shed loads to hit Companies House soon.

[mkowl]

Just now, Reesh said:

Yeah just looked and expect a shed loads to hit Companies House soon.

Keep Maguire busy at least informing us of the bleeding obvious 

I like to think he knows we are watching when it comes to SWFC 

[KrolMong]

19 million wage will is lower than I thought it would be. Expect that to jump a little bit this season as we have brought a lot in on Champ wages.

Debt to DC, but also well within P&S and wages still within turnover.

Next will see the big jump in TV revenue with the the EFL deals that were done last summer.

[mkowl]

7 minutes ago, KrolMong said:

19 million wage will is lower than I thought it would be. Expect that to jump a little bit this season as we have brought a lot in on Champ wages.

Debt to DC, but also well within P&S and wages still within turnover.

Next will see the big jump in TV revenue with the the EFL deals that were done last summer.

The jump in revenue will be matched with the wages - that is the football business model.

 

 

[mkowl]

The "expertise" on Stalk is always entertaining.

Tbf there are a couple on there that make sense, and are thus completely ignored 

[Andyben]

1 hour ago, mkowl said:

Note 21 was interesting in that the Club settled a legal dispute on 1 August 2024 paying out £2.5m. I am presuming this was manager related eg Moore. 

£2.5m for an out of contract manager?

[mkowl]

14 minutes ago, Andyben said:

£2.5m for an out of contract manager?

True, but who knows the detail. Was it Xisco ?, backroom staff, perhaps Newcastle appealed the Bruce compensation.

With nearly half a million in legal fees that must have been at least a day for a lawyer !

 

[Tylluan]

We're probably using the same legal team for everything, including player/staff contracts and when the money moves about. So with Cisco and Moore leaving in the same financial period and quite a lot of ins and outs then that legal bill probably looks about right

[Reesh]

45 minutes ago, Tylluan said:

We're probably using the same legal team for everything, including player/staff contracts and when the money moves about. So with Cisco and Moore leaving in the same financial period and quite a lot of ins and outs then that legal bill probably looks about right

Moore left in the year ended 31/07/23