Bannan and beyond

[Tylluan]

Thought I'd put my thoughts on a dedicated thread as the match day one was getting taken over a bit. So here are my thoughts. 

There are times when Bannan can put a pass on a 2p coin but there's been plenty of times when he's gone too Hollywood. His passing accuracy throughout his time with us is 68% but his accuracy in a pass that's resulted in 'effective momentum' is 42% This includes his free kicks and corners. What we all remember, though, is the lovely weighted through ball that's split a defence and that skews our view on what he brings. We forget that maybe in the same game he's played 12 passes backwards/sideways and slowed a move down. 

He's looked good recently because of those playing around him are allowing him to. You need to ask yourself would he be this good if we didn't have Shea Charles? Because he wasn't at the beginning of the season before Charles arrived. Previously we've been too easy to play against when we were playing 'pass it to Baz' and Moore's cautious approach in L1 meant that he used Bannan too much and the game slowed down. Compare us going forward in L1 through Bannan to Ipswich going forward further up the pitch through Chaplin. 

A mate of mine posed a question on Bannan. If Kieran Lee had had the same fitness record as Bannan then who you would have had as your main centre midfielder? We'd have played differently with Lee but I'd have had him over Bannan. 

Regards his replacement. I'd actually prefer us not going through one playmaker but having two holding mids that would allow us to play further up the pitch. That allows for greater fluidity in how we can set up in front of the defensive 2. We could go with a false 10 (Ingelsson or Gassama) a box to 6, go 4-2-2-2 or overload with a front 4. 

 

[Owling_Wolf]

14 minutes ago, Tylluan said:

Thought I'd put my thoughts on a dedicated thread as the match day one was getting taken over a bit. So here are my thoughts. 

There are times when Bannan can put a pass on a 2p coin but there's been plenty of times when he's gone too Hollywood. His passing accuracy throughout his time with us is 68% but his accuracy in a pass that's resulted in 'effective momentum' is 42% This includes his free kicks and corners. What we all remember, though, is the lovely weighted through ball that's split a defence and that skews our view on what he brings. We forget that maybe in the same game he's played 12 passes backwards/sideways and slowed a move down. 

He's looked good recently because of those playing around him are allowing him to. You need to ask yourself would he be this good if we didn't have Shea Charles? Because he wasn't at the beginning of the season before Charles arrived. Previously we've been too easy to play against when we were playing 'pass it to Baz' and Moore's cautious approach in L1 meant that he used Bannan too much and the game slowed down. Compare us going forward in L1 through Bannan to Ipswich going forward further up the pitch through Chaplin. 

A mate of mine posed a question on Bannan. If Kieran Lee had had the same fitness record as Bannan then who you would have had as your main centre midfielder? We'd have played differently with Lee but I'd have had him over Bannan. 

Regards his replacement. I'd actually prefer us not going through one playmaker but having two holding mids that would allow us to play further up the pitch. That allows for greater fluidity in how we can set up in front of the defensive 2. We could go with a false 10 (Ingelsson or Gassama) a box to 6, go 4-2-2-2 or overload with a front 4. 

 

Obviously you couldn't have K.L. with Bannan's fitness record. That's (one of) Bannan's major strengths and one of the reasons he's still here after so long.  

P.s.  I was doing fine with your last paragraph until I got to the last sentence.  🙄

[Reesh]

If our medical team at the time weren't so incompetent then Kieran Lee wouldn't have had an issue and yeah I'd have had him over Bannan every day of the week.

 

[Tylluan]

4 minutes ago, Owling_Wolf said:

P.s.  I was doing fine with your last paragraph until I got to the last sentence. 

What's wrong with my last sentence? 🤔

If you think about it, Ingelsson and Gassama could be seen as having to bend their game to fit into a Bazza orientated team. Both were false 10s/attacking midfielders with their previous clubs but we can't play that way with a playmaker and one holding midfielder. Ingelsson even had to drop into the holding role until Charles turned up. 

Then look at other recent Midfielders we've had that had to adapt to a Bannan dominated midfield. Will Vaulks was more box to box at Rotherham but he had to curtail that with us. He's more freedom to go forward at Oxford again. Luongo was a central midfielder at QPR and was another who had to adapt because he was playing alongside Bannan. 

Then we have Dele-Bashiru. Currently having a blast as a deep lying attacking midfielder for a top 5 club in Serie A. We couldn't accommodate his style because we were playing Bannan. But Lazio can. 

 

[Owling_Wolf]

20 minutes ago, Tylluan said:

What's wrong with my last sentence? 🤔

If you think about it, Ingelsson and Gassama could be seen as having to bend their game to fit into a Bazza orientated team. Both were false 10s/attacking midfielders with their previous clubs but we can't play that way with a playmaker and one holding midfielder. Ingelsson even had to drop into the holding role until Charles turned up. 

Then look at other recent Midfielders we've had that had to adapt to a Bannan dominated midfield. Will Vaulks was more box to box at Rotherham but he had to curtail that with us. He's more freedom to go forward at Oxford again. Luongo was a central midfielder at QPR and was another who had to adapt because he was playing alongside Bannan. 

Then we have Dele-Bashiru. Currently having a blast as a deep lying attacking midfielder for a top 5 club in Serie A. We couldn't accommodate his style because we were playing Bannan. But Lazio can. 

 

Probably nothing of what you're saying, Ty. Just my usual swipe at anybody's jargon.  Yes, I am 'old fashioned'.  

[Teddy Nickelarse]

52 minutes ago, Tylluan said:

Thought I'd put my thoughts on a dedicated thread as the match day one was getting taken over a bit. So here are my thoughts. 

There are times when Bannan can put a pass on a 2p coin but there's been plenty of times when he's gone too Hollywood. His passing accuracy throughout his time with us is 68% but his accuracy in a pass that's resulted in 'effective momentum' is 42% This includes his free kicks and corners. What we all remember, though, is the lovely weighted through ball that's split a defence and that skews our view on what he brings. We forget that maybe in the same game he's played 12 passes backwards/sideways and slowed a move down. 

He's looked good recently because of those playing around him are allowing him to. You need to ask yourself would he be this good if we didn't have Shea Charles? Because he wasn't at the beginning of the season before Charles arrived. Previously we've been too easy to play against when we were playing 'pass it to Baz' and Moore's cautious approach in L1 meant that he used Bannan too much and the game slowed down. Compare us going forward in L1 through Bannan to Ipswich going forward further up the pitch through Chaplin. 

A mate of mine posed a question on Bannan. If Kieran Lee had had the same fitness record as Bannan then who you would have had as your main centre midfielder? We'd have played differently with Lee but I'd have had him over Bannan. 

Regards his replacement. I'd actually prefer us not going through one playmaker but having two holding mids that would allow us to play further up the pitch. That allows for greater fluidity in how we can set up in front of the defensive 2. We could go with a false 10 (Ingelsson or Gassama) a box to 6, go 4-2-2-2 or overload with a front 4. 

 

Fair to say that I'm more of a fan than you. You do highlight those terrific through balls which his hardline critcs invariably omit to be fair. They're  great but certainly don't  skew my judgement of his all round value to us though. They don't need to.

I'd add his exceptional work rate, last ditch covering tackles whilst those around don't  have the willingness,legs, energy or positional sense to make. One of our very, very few players that can receive the ball in really tight spot and protect it invariably. Brings the absolute best out of our most creative player - Johnson. Is part of a very good midfield pairing with Charles.

Held in high regard by people in the game, fans of other clubs and successive managers here alike. Now i know that he's not a Messi but you'd think he was another Jeffers given to OTT sniping he receives from a minority.

[Teddy Nickelarse]

36 minutes ago, Tylluan said:

What's wrong with my last sentence? 🤔

If you think about it, Ingelsson and Gassama could be seen as having to bend their game to fit into a Bazza orientated team. Both were false 10s/attacking midfielders with their previous clubs but we can't play that way with a playmaker and one holding midfielder. Ingelsson even had to drop into the holding role until Charles turned up. 

Then look at other recent Midfielders we've had that had to adapt to a Bannan dominated midfield. Will Vaulks was more box to box at Rotherham but he had to curtail that with us. He's more freedom to go forward at Oxford again. Luongo was a central midfielder at QPR and was another who had to adapt because he was playing alongside Bannan. 

Then we have Dele-Bashiru. Currently having a blast as a deep lying attacking midfielder for a top 5 club in Serie A. We couldn't accommodate his style because we were playing Bannan. But Lazio can. 

 

FDB was one that the bulk of the fanbase  tagged as shite. It was obvious to me that he had the ability and occasionally it shone bright. Laying the blame on anyone other than himself for his latter day application, or rather lack of, is IMO totally wrong though.

[Reesh]

13 minutes ago, Teddy Nickelarse said:

Fair to say that I'm more of a fan than you. You do highlight those terrific through balls which his hardline critcs invariably omit to be fair. They're  great but certainly don't  skew my judgement of his all round value to us though. They don't need to.

I'd add his exceptional work rate, last ditch covering tackles whilst those around don't  have the willingness,legs, energy or positional sense to make. One of our very, very few players that can receive the ball in really tight spot and protect it invariably. Brings the absolute best out of our most creative player - Johnson. Is part of a very good midfield pairing with Charles.

Held in high regard by people in the game, fans of other clubs and successive managers here alike. Now i know that he's not a Messi but you'd think he was another Jeffers given to OTT sniping he receives from a minority.

OTT sniping or valid observations from those that have a different view of a bloke who has achieved 3/5ths of fuck all in the game.

[Teddy Nickelarse]

1 minute ago, Reesh said:

OTT sniping or valid observations from those that have a different view of a bloke who has achieved 3/5ths of fuck all in the game.

OTT sniping. Beyond just a different opinion and seemingly out of kilter with general opinion. Look I know he's not free of flaws but some of stuff from a minority is just bizarre.

[KrolMong]

There’s a modern day myth that one of your central midfield players has to be an elite passer.

In the modern game it just does not exist anymore. If you play two in midfield, they both have to be very mobile, they both have to read the game, they both have to be able to receive the ball in tight areas and they both have to play forward on a first touch.

All of the top teams employ the passer in a 10 position.

So, had Bannan been a 25 year old coming into a Rohl side, he’d have been brought in as that 10, and we’d have player two players behind him who get ball back and move it quickly.

When we look long term, all of our out and out central midfield players have to be in the Charles mould and our 10’s have to be creators.

What we have now is 10’s who are really strikers or forwards that like to go behind or they dribblers or ball carriers. Bannan is the only player in the final third who can get the weight of pass right even with pressure. And that’s what we need to replace.

[bradowl]

Like I said in other thread he's been our best player since Premier league days, his playing days are coming to end very soon but he's been a joy to watch. 

Fingers crossed he will stay and will be given a coaching roll when he hangs up his boots and maybe one day become our manager. 

[Owling_Wolf]

4 minutes ago, bradowl said:

Like I said in other thread he's been our best player since Premier league days, his playing days are coming to end very soon but he's been a joy to watch. 

Fingers crossed he will stay and will be given a coaching roll when he hangs up his boots and maybe one day become our manager. 

Nah, he'll be no.2 to their Elsie.  She'll sort Wednesday out properly!   

[Reesh]

39 minutes ago, Teddy Nickelarse said:

OTT sniping. Beyond just a different opinion and seemingly out of kilter with general opinion. Look I know he's not free of flaws but some of stuff from a minority is just bizarre.

As is the blind faith shown in him by fans who ignore his woeful stats and his ability to slow down most promising attacks.

 

[Reesh]

17 minutes ago, bradowl said:

Like I said in other thread he's been our best player since Premier league days, his playing days are coming to end very soon but he's been a joy to watch. 

Fingers crossed he will stay and will be given a coaching roll when he hangs up his boots and maybe one day become our manager. 

Has he fuck, there's been better footballers who have gone on to better careers, namely Glenn Whelan who is the player you'd want Bannan to be.

 

Aye the next Lee Bullen and it's is fucking role not roll.

Edited November 11 by Reesh

[Andyben]

If were going to progress we need to move Bannan, Palmer and I dare say Windass on next summer.

[Teddy Nickelarse]

3 minutes ago, Andyben said:

If were going to progress we need to move Bannan, Palmer and I dare say Windass on next summer.

There will inevitably come a time for all three and maybe that time will indeed be this summer. Got a sneaking feeling though that Windass held out for a 2 year term this summer gone.

 

[bradowl]

2 minutes ago, Reesh said:

Has he fuck, there's been better footballers who have gone on to better careers, namely Glenn Whelan who is the player you'd want Bannan.

 

Aye the next Lee Bullen and it's is fucking role not roll.

Whelan was a good player for us but I remember him receiving stick from some fans when things weren't going well and I can recall him being left out of starting line up numerous times when Sturrock was manager. 

Chris Brunt was very good player in them days, though even he received stick from some fans when things weren't going well. 

[Reesh]

Just now, bradowl said:

Whelan was a good player for us but I remember him receiving stick from some fans when things weren't going well and I can recall him being left out of starting line up numerous times when Sturrock was manager. 

Chris Brunt was very good player in them days, though even he received stick from some fans when things weren't going well. 

Both were kids though and went on to have stellar top flight careers, something you cannot level at Bannan.

[mkowl]

Watched a bit of the Oxford game the other night, fair to say Vaulks still has the instinct to turn backwards first he developed at ours. 

I sit on the fence with Bannan really, can see what he contributes and at times our creative abilities would be nowt. But equally us building a side around him as lead to a lot of compromise in how we play and in how other players have progressed or not

But the transition needs to be put in place really - I am sure Rohl would like Chalobah available as that would change how we set up - but frankly I am not sure we will ever see him fully fit

[bradowl]

9 minutes ago, Andyben said:

If were going to progress we need to move Bannan, Palmer and I dare say Windass on next summer.

I was very disappointed with Windass yesterday, hardly involved in game at all. I would have taken him off at half time. 

[Teddy Nickelarse]

11 minutes ago, Reesh said:

As is the blind faith shown in him by fans who ignore his woeful stats and his ability to slow down most promising attacks.

 

Yep the either 'he's great or he's crap' binary postings are par for the course on the internet. The woeful stats you refer to always exclude the killer through ball to the overlapping player whilst crediting the easier final pass as the assist. 

[bradowl]

2 minutes ago, Reesh said:

Both were kids though and went on to have stellar top flight careers, something you cannot level at Bannan.

Bannan could have played at a higher level, several managers have said he's a Premier league player, his loyalty and love for Sheffield Wednesday put a stop to this. 

Most players of his ability would have gone elsewhere when we dropped down to league one. 

[Reesh]

4 minutes ago, Teddy Nickelarse said:

Yep the either 'he's great or he's crap' binary postings are par for the course on the internet. The woeful stats you refer to always exclude the killer through ball to the overlapping player whilst crediting the easier final pass as the assist. 

I get what he brings and he's had some top level performances over the decade he's been here but he also disappeared in games, gets needlessly booked early cos his bloods up and on a tightrope for the rest of the game, honestly for me he is not a central midfielder, his best seasons for us came on the left of a four which he thrived in.

[Harry Lime]

I was really looking forward to the "beyond" part of the thread especially with Charles probably going back to Southampton at the end of the season or possibly sooner.

Looks like it's not to be though.😂

[Reesh]

5 minutes ago, bradowl said:

Bannan could have played at a higher level, several managers have said he's a Premier league player, his loyalty and love for Sheffield Wednesday put a stop to this. 

Most players of his ability would have gone elsewhere when we dropped down to league one. 

Coulda woulda shoulda, he didn't though because he hadn't got the bottle to not be the big fish in a little pond like he is at Hillsborough, he doesn't love Wednesday he's just a well paid employee who loves the adoration.

[Owling_Wolf]

1 minute ago, Reesh said:

I get what he brings and he's had some top level performances over the decade he's been here but he also disappeared in games, gets needlessly booked early cos his bloods up and on a tightrope for the rest of the game, honestly for me he is not a central midfielder, his best seasons for us came on the left of a four which he thrived in.

Wouldn't his best seasons having been on the left, if so, have been down to us having had a better team generally then?

Agree about daft bookings, btw. 

[Andyben]

10 minutes ago, bradowl said:

Bannan could have played at a higher level, several managers have said he's a Premier league player, his loyalty and love for Sheffield Wednesday put a stop to this. 

Yet he wasnt a regular PL player when he was playing at PL teams - remember we signed him from Palace reserves 

[Teddy Nickelarse]

9 minutes ago, mkowl said:

Watched a bit of the Oxford game the other night, fair to say Vaulks still has the instinct to turn backwards first he developed at ours. 

I sit on the fence with Bannan really, can see what he contributes and at times our creative abilities would be nowt. But equally us building a side around him as lead to a lot of compromise in how we play and in how other players have progressed or not

But the transition needs to be put in place really - I am sure Rohl would like Chalobah available as that would change how we set up - but frankly I am not sure we will ever see him fully fit

The bit in bold is most pertinent though we've moved away from that under Röhl.

IMO we did the right thing offering Vaulks a contract to reflect his value including a one year term. Thanks for THAT tackle Will but 3 years? 

[Teddy Nickelarse]

10 minutes ago, Reesh said:

I get what he brings and he's had some top level performances over the decade he's been here but he also disappeared in games, gets needlessly booked early cos his bloods up and on a tightrope for the rest of the game, honestly for me he is not a central midfielder, his best seasons for us came on the left of a four which he thrived in.

Fair comments.

 

[Tylluan]

25 minutes ago, Harry Lime said:

I was really looking forward to the "beyond" part of the thread especially with Charles probably going back to Southampton at the end of the season or possibly sooner.

Looks like it's not to be though.😂

Ok Harry, I'll start with this. 

What do we do if Bannan gets injured during the break and is out until January? 

Judging by the cup games DR would stick Paterson alongside Charles and there's as close as we've got to KM's two mobile midfielders with the current squad. 

If Charles goes back in January and Chalobah isn't fit enough to give us 15-20 games then we need an immediate replacement but I can see it being another loan. 

As for life without Bannan there are players out there. My personal choice would be a 19 year old at PSG. Ayman Kari is running his contract down as he's surplus to requirements. Spent 18 months on loan at Lorient and almost single handedly kept them up until results on the last day went against them. Because he's stuck in PSG's u19s he's off the radar. Sunderland were linked at the start of the season but it didn't happen. He's a KM style mobile midfielder. He's Shea Charles with more tricks and creativity.  He's also played with Gassama at PSG and for France u20s. 

[Harry Lime]

8 minutes ago, Tylluan said:

As for life without Bannan there are players out there. My personal choice would be a 19 year old at PSG. Ayman Kari is running his contract down as he's surplus to requirements. Spent 18 months on loan at Lorient and almost single handedly kept them up until results on the last day went against them. Because he's stuck in PSG's u19s he's off the radar. Sunderland were linked at the start of the season but it didn't happen. He's a KM style mobile midfielder. He's Shea Charles with more tricks and creativity.  He's also played with Gassama at PSG and for France u20s. 

That's more like it. Obviously if Bannan were to get injured we'd just have to cut our cloth to suit and use whoever we had. It was the longer term i'm interested in and not just the actual replacements, the funding of them as well.

I read somewhere (can't remember where) some pig complaining that some of us were trying to use the parachute payments as an excuse (not me)  for on field differences between our two sides. He went onto mention O'Hare had signed on a free and I think he mentioned others, although we all know his signing would have come at a cost, just not between the 2 clubs.

There's a large hole appearing there and I'm intrigued on how we're going to fill it and who with and are we already on the case, which I'm confident we will be.

[Tylluan]

@Harry Lime

O'Hare grabbed a £500k signing on fee and is on £35k a week

[Teddy Nickelarse]

43 minutes ago, Harry Lime said:

That's more like it. Obviously if Bannan were to get injured we'd just have to cut our cloth to suit and use whoever we had. It was the longer term i'm interested in and not just the actual replacements, the funding of them as well.

I read somewhere (can't remember where) some pig complaining that some of us were trying to use the parachute payments as an excuse (not me)  for on field differences between our two sides. He went onto mention O'Hare had signed on a free and I think he mentioned others, although we all know his signing would have come at a cost, just not between the 2 clubs.

There's a large hole appearing there and I'm intrigued on how we're going to fill it and who with and are we already on the case, which I'm confident we will be.

Parachute payments are not an excuse for one off matches but they do provide an imbalance when it comes to assembling squads for sure. They are necessary but I think a more equitable system is called for but I'm  not getting into all that. The value of the likes of Burrows, O'hare and Cooper were well known to people who've watched the Championship and League 1 over the past 2 or 3 years but were way wide of our budget this summer yet still bargains for a parachute club. Likewise with their loanees. We really swam the channel getting Charles.

I think we all hoped and expected Danny to use his German contacts but so far it's not materialised. Longer term I'd like to see the likes of Fusire and Shipston pushing through. The latter has been talked up by some for at least 3 years yet he only turned 20 last week. I'd like to think we could recruit another CM (and a goalscorer) in January but am not confident. 

Edited November 11 by Teddy Nickelarse

[KrolMong]

That line from Wilder he used about us having  big hitters on 50k was never correct. What was correct was him, during his two spells with players on astonishingly high wages. They’ve got three or four on eye watering contracts, I’m talking 50-100k a week.

Two of the loans, the loans fees are big 7 figure fees.

They’ve recruited well, but very very expensively.

The wage bill coming out of the premier league was close to 70 million.

[Harry Lime]

42 minutes ago, Tylluan said:

@Harry Lime

O'Hare grabbed a £500k signing on fee and is on £35k a week

Yes, I thought it would have been the case although the £500k was cheap enough.

 

15 minutes ago, Teddy Nickelarse said:

Parachute payments are not an excuse for one off matches but they do provide an imbalance when it comes to assembling squads for sure. They are necessary but I think a more equitable system is called for but I'm  not getting into all that. The value of the likes of Burrows, O'hare and Cooper were well known to people who've watched the Championship and League 1 over the past 2 or 3 years but were way wide of our budget this summer yet still bargains for a parachute club. Likewise with their loanees. We really swam the channel getting Charles.

I think we all hoped and expected Danny to use his German contacts but so far it's not materialised. Longer term I'd like to see the likes of Fusire and Shipston pushing through. The latter has been talked up by some for at least 3 years yet he only turned 20 last week. I'd like to think we could recruit another CM (and a goalscorer) in January but am not confident. 

I posted this in the match thread yesterday.

I could only think of 4 routes. 1) We pick a gem up from lower leagues in which we'll either have competition or he won't be the finished product. 2) We pick someone up from overseas similar to how we got Musaba and Gassama. 3) We sign someone coming out of contract like Sunderland did with Alan Browne (I haven't a clue how he's doing there by the way). 4) Someone steps up from the under 21's.

I just see it as a big problem which will be upon us soon enough, 6 months to the end of the season, can't see Shipston & Fusire just being dropped in to fill the hole, hopefully they'll both get there eventually.

The January window I've just come to think of it (may be wrong) as a bit of a panic window where extortionate fees are paid by clubs needing to get someone in, or they pick a player up hoping for the best and things will click. It doesn't seem, to me anyway that January can be associated with long term planning, (awaits someone coming along with an anecdote to disprove that). No, the summer window is where it's at and I hope the club are tapping some players up that are coming out of contract then, or we will be doing when allowed to, is it the last 6 months they can tout themselves around.

Think DC is going to have to get his hand down the beck of the settee.

[Andyben]

 

[Harry Lime]

He'll do for one. I wish. You never know though.

[Teddy Nickelarse]

1 hour ago, Harry Lime said:

Yes, I thought it would have been the case although the £500k was cheap enough.

 

I posted this in the match thread yesterday.

I could only think of 4 routes. 1) We pick a gem up from lower leagues in which we'll either have competition or he won't be the finished product. 2) We pick someone up from overseas similar to how we got Musaba and Gassama. 3) We sign someone coming out of contract like Sunderland did with Alan Browne (I haven't a clue how he's doing there by the way). 4) Someone steps up from the under 21's.

I just see it as a big problem which will be upon us soon enough, 6 months to the end of the season, can't see Shipston & Fusire just being dropped in to fill the hole, hopefully they'll both get there eventually.

The January window I've just come to think of it (may be wrong) as a bit of a panic window where extortionate fees are paid by clubs needing to get someone in, or they pick a player up hoping for the best and things will click. It doesn't seem, to me anyway that January can be associated with long term planning, (awaits someone coming along with an anecdote to disprove that). No, the summer window is where it's at and I hope the club are tapping some players up that are coming out of contract then, or we will be doing when allowed to, is it the last 6 months they can tout themselves around.

Think DC is going to have to get his hand down the beck of the settee.

1) Lower league gems don't  come cheap as a rule these days - unless you get really lucky.

2) This is the most likely to reap dividends IMO

3)Same as 1) - what you save on tranafer fees is offset by signing on fees and especially wages. 

4) Signs of green shoots here - at last. I don't know whether Fusire and Shipston will make good Championship players and I could see this summer being a watershed for Shipston. Apologies for digressing from midfield but I reckon Otegbayo will break through next season - hopefully he's  contracted for another couple of seasons. Fingers crossed for Cadamarteri too.

Hopefully we'll  be comfortably placed come January but are able to bring in a couple of loanees.

Come the summer I expect to see DC backing Danny in similar fashion to this last one. We don't need revolution this time but 2 ir 3  long serving players will likely depart to facilitate younger replacements.

Edited November 11 by Teddy Nickelarse

[Kiwi Owl]

6 hours ago, Tylluan said:

Thought I'd put my thoughts on a dedicated thread as the match day one was getting taken over a bit. So here are my thoughts. 

There are times when Bannan can put a pass on a 2p coin but there's been plenty of times when he's gone too Hollywood. His passing accuracy throughout his time with us is 68% but his accuracy in a pass that's resulted in 'effective momentum' is 42% This includes his free kicks and corners. What we all remember, though, is the lovely weighted through ball that's split a defence and that skews our view on what he brings. We forget that maybe in the same game he's played 12 passes backwards/sideways and slowed a move down. 

He's looked good recently because of those playing around him are allowing him to. You need to ask yourself would he be this good if we didn't have Shea Charles? Because he wasn't at the beginning of the season before Charles arrived. Previously we've been too easy to play against when we were playing 'pass it to Baz' and Moore's cautious approach in L1 meant that he used Bannan too much and the game slowed down. Compare us going forward in L1 through Bannan to Ipswich going forward further up the pitch through Chaplin. 

A mate of mine posed a question on Bannan. If Kieran Lee had had the same fitness record as Bannan then who you would have had as your main centre midfielder? We'd have played differently with Lee but I'd have had him over Bannan. 

Regards his replacement. I'd actually prefer us not going through one playmaker but having two holding mids that would allow us to play further up the pitch. That allows for greater fluidity in how we can set up in front of the defensive 2. We could go with a false 10 (Ingelsson or Gassama) a box to 6, go 4-2-2-2 or overload with a front 4. 

 

For me, Kieran Lee is easily the best central midfielder we've had since relegation from the PL (apologies to Glenn Whelan who runs him a distant 2nd). A terrific footballer with a fabulous footballing brain.

That duo of Hutchinson and Lee in the midfield had Bannan playing his best football for us on the left side with the freedom to roam. It also helped him that Daniel Pudil had a terrific season down that left side as well but his legs started going in the 2nd season. I think Reach was signed to fill that gap but you could tell when he was first signed that he clearly was not a left back. Wing back possibly but definitely not a left back. Carlos was never going to change from his 4-4-2 approach.

Abdi, I thought was going to be the upgrade and Bannan becomes a squad player but for reasons why I have no idea, Carlos stuck him as a defensive minded midfielder when Hutchinson was playing centre half with Lees. Abdi was one of Watfords best players as an attacking midfielder and yet got put in a position completely unsuitable for him. Then came the rest

 

[Bob Petrie]

A really long rest for Abdi.  

[Teddy Nickelarse]

15 minutes ago, Teddy Nickelarse said:

Come the summer I expect to see DC backing Danny in similar fashion to this last one. We don't need revolution this time but 2 ir 3  long serving players will likely depart to facilitate younger replacements.

Thinking about it more,  2 or 3 severely under cooks it. Palmer and Paterson likely. Bannan and Windass (depending on his outstanding term) very possibly. 

Fringe player like Ihekwei, Smith and Jamal possibly considered surplus. Chalobah  - who knows?

Not the same tangle as this last summer but a fair old churn nonetheless.

[Owling_Wolf]

33 minutes ago, Bob Petrie said:

A really long rest for Abdi.  

True but Kiwi's right: Abdi was a terrific signing.  Then 'The luck of the Wednesday' came to bear once again.   

[Bob Petrie]

13 minutes ago, Owling_Wolf said:

True but Kiwi's right: Abdi was a terrific signing.  Then 'The luck of the Wednesday' came to bear once again.   

Agree on that actually. Saw him in a pre-season game (can’t remember who against) and came away convinced he was going to be the main man that season. 

[Kiwi Owl]

1 hour ago, Owling_Wolf said:

True but Kiwi's right: Abdi was a terrific signing.  Then 'The luck of the Wednesday' came to bear once again.   

I wouldn't say the luck of the Wednesday on this one, I put it fully down to Carlos Carvahal.

Even Abdi noted when he opened up that he was asked to play in a completely different position to what he played throughout his career. First he was put as the defensive minded midfielder as noted, then Carlos attempted to play him as the box to box midfielder. Not once did he put Abdi in the position he should have been playing in.

Burton Albion away when we lost 3-1 is a great example of the warning signs. Abdi playing Sam Hutchinsons rule whilst Lee was the box to box and Bannan the forward thinking attack minded midfielder. He had a dreadful game did Abdi and got taken off for Forestieri at half time. 

Carlos wasn't afraid to drop Abdi at all for one bad game yet I remember that season, a midfielder having a mare at home to Leeds United but he played in the next game. There were players Carlos never dropped to the bench for a bad game, he had his favourites and played them all the time. Hence it being such of a waste of a signing. Even Urby Emanuelson should have had a lot more game time given he looked a cut above the rest in the Fulham defeat but played what once?

As others have noted, Carlos was always quick to rush Lee back. Same with Hutchinson when he was injured despite us having David Jones that could do his job. Wallace and Bannan were never dropped even if they weren't playing well. We could have signed Knockeart and Diame, yet neither would have got ahead of Wallace, Lee, Hutchinson and Bannan during Carvahals reign. 

Abdi requested to leave numerous times as well but given he was "part of the family", not once did they consider moving him on. Stuck paying huge wages for a player in the end, awful ownership of a player that was never going to play.

 

[TheExile]

I thought we might have been looking at Alfie Devine as a bit of a Bannan replacement or someone to have helped in that role this season. I don’t think he’s done much on his current loan but there is a player to be developed there.

[mkowl]

7 hours ago, Kiwi Owl said:

I wouldn't say the luck of the Wednesday on this one, I put it fully down to Carlos Carvahal.

Even Abdi noted when he opened up that he was asked to play in a completely different position to what he played throughout his career. First he was put as the defensive minded midfielder as noted, then Carlos attempted to play him as the box to box midfielder. Not once did he put Abdi in the position he should have been playing in.

Burton Albion away when we lost 3-1 is a great example of the warning signs. Abdi playing Sam Hutchinsons rule whilst Lee was the box to box and Bannan the forward thinking attack minded midfielder. He had a dreadful game did Abdi and got taken off for Forestieri at half time. 

Carlos wasn't afraid to drop Abdi at all for one bad game yet I remember that season, a midfielder having a mare at home to Leeds United but he played in the next game. There were players Carlos never dropped to the bench for a bad game, he had his favourites and played them all the time. Hence it being such of a waste of a signing. Even Urby Emanuelson should have had a lot more game time given he looked a cut above the rest in the Fulham defeat but played what once?

As others have noted, Carlos was always quick to rush Lee back. Same with Hutchinson when he was injured despite us having David Jones that could do his job. Wallace and Bannan were never dropped even if they weren't playing well. We could have signed Knockeart and Diame, yet neither would have got ahead of Wallace, Lee, Hutchinson and Bannan during Carvahals reign. 

Abdi requested to leave numerous times as well but given he was "part of the family", not once did they consider moving him on. Stuck paying huge wages for a player in the end, awful ownership of a player that was never going to play.

 

I must not say it

I must not say it

I must not say it, the doc gave you pills MK to stop this obsession

Breathe slowly, count to 10

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mkowl]

Carlos was shit innit 

[Andyben]

Imagine if Röhl had the squad and finances available to Carlos...