Mark Townsend's brother calling for a full coroner's enquiry

[Winco]

2 minutes ago, mkowl said:

Like to see the social media mob demand my boss fires me. 

Reyt **** I’ve heard.

[mkowl]

7 hours ago, Tank_Owl2,0 said:

It’s a fair point, even if you don’t agree with what’s happened, ie the mocking of the poor kid that was a Sunderland fan and the racism towards the Cov player are recent and reasonably high profile, locally anyway. So, you could hardly say there’s no form for the club and authorities identifying people and sanctioning them when they have been antisocial. In other words the guy can hardly be surprised he was dealt with as he has.

i wonder if any other clubs have had anything like these kinds of problems?

Don't get me wrong it was a stupid crass and insensitive comment and posting it online whether pissed or not was ill advised.

I am sure many of us get riled in life, that email that winds you up. You then write your reply full of what you want to say. Then you delete it and write the one with less venom 

The problem with social media is that we fire off quick fire barbs. Half the time it's sarcasm or irony and I think nothing more of it. Then you go back on your phone and usually in my case it's several vexed lycra clad wanker cyclists and Jeremy Vine who are a tad annoyed. 

Which I find very amusing that they froth at the mouth. But know your audience, so if you know that the woke football fan element will take delight in cancelling you, think before you post

[mkowl]

9 minutes ago, Winco said:

Reyt **** I’ve heard.

I wish, I am far too nice in reality 

[HoylandOwl]

Think before you post. Thats it. 
The world can see it.

As mentioned above, people have very different ideas about humour. You need to ‘know your audience’ and there’s no way the whole social media world is able to be ‘known’ 

[mkowl]

8 hours ago, Otto_Man said:

The law courts do and will, our justice system works on the basis of innocent until proven guilty, he could have pleaded not guilty and gone to trial, he didn't.

He's a grown man, who's clearly fairly engaged online so it seems reasonable to assume he would have seen what happened to them two blokes mocking the Sunderland fans with the picture of that young lad who passed away.

The court of public opinion is hardly a new thing is it? 

 

Is that the law courts that recently bent over backwards to do what Starmer asked. My respect for a free thinking judiciary system is long gone 

[mkowl]

2 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said:

Think before you post. Thats it. 
The world can see it.

As mentioned above, people have very different ideas about humour. You need to ‘know your audience’ and there’s no way the whole social media world is able to be ‘known’ 

I mean the jokes and comments on here are still edgy in comparison to elsewhere but compared to 10 - 15 years ago it's much more civilised !

Yep humour is a very personal thing but if we end up with the lowest common denominator taking control there is no comedy. 

I mean I am sure there are comedy shows on TV but I would struggle to name a decent one that is a must watch these days. 

[Winco]

26 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said:

Think before you post. Thats it. 
The world can see it.

As mentioned above, people have very different ideas about humour. You need to ‘know your audience’ and there’s no way the whole social media world is able to be ‘known’ 

Fuck me, I wouldn’t put our resident polish tosspot in the “think before you post” category Tee.

[Teddy Nickelarse]

My opinion - it's  right and proper that there are consequences for online behaviour . As has been said; 'think before you post'. That said; sanctions from the platform and club, sure, but losing your job or being criminally charged?? Are there not more appropriate  ways of dealing with repellent ( for the majority) utterances such as this. 

Moderation in terms of sanctioning this type of behaviour seems, IMO, to be invariably crushed by mass moral online indignation.

 

[HoylandOwl]

47 minutes ago, Winco said:

Fuck me, I wouldn’t put our resident polish tosspot in the “think before you post” category Tee.

🤣🤣🤣🤣

[HoylandOwl]

6 minutes ago, Teddy Nickelarse said:

My opinion - it's  right and proper that there are consequences for online behaviour . As has been said; 'think before you post'. That said; sanctions from the platform and club, sure, but losing your job or being criminally charged?? Are there not more appropriate  ways of dealing with repellent ( for the majority) utterances such as this. 

Moderation in terms of sanctioning this type of behaviour seems, IMO, to be invariably crushed by mass moral online indignation.

 

The problems that companies have in instances like the one discussed here are, they’re almost stuck in the middle. If they do something it’s too far, if they do nothing then it’s seen by people as ‘endorsing’ the opinion of the person involved.

[mkowl]

5 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said:

The problems that companies have in instances like the one discussed here are, they’re almost stuck in the middle. If they do something it’s too far, if they do nothing then it’s seen by people as ‘endorsing’ the opinion of the person involved.

See if they are clever and actually don't mind the chap just tell him to set up a company, pay him a consultancy fee, he pays himself a full salary so we can fuck off IR35 and none of the lynch mob knows 

 

[Reesh]

2 hours ago, mkowl said:

Like to see the social media mob demand my boss fires me. 

Until you're reported to the ICAEW

[Reesh]

1 hour ago, Winco said:

Fuck me, I wouldn’t put our resident polish tosspot in the “think before you post” category Tee.

Pipe down Taggy McTag

[mkowl]

13 minutes ago, Reesh said:

Until you're reported to the ICAEW

I think my shit work is more likely to get me in trouble 

[Reesh]

1 minute ago, mkowl said:

I think my shit work is more likely to get me in trouble 

No comment.

[Andyben]

2 hours ago, mkowl said:

Like to see the social media mob demand my boss fires me. 

They'd hound your clients

[Otto_Man]

12 hours ago, Hirstys 12th Pint said:

Stupid comments for him to put in the public domain.  Earlier think he had put condolences in a post to the family. 

Just put those comments into the mouth of someone like Frankie Boyle or Jimmy Carr at one of their gigs for example.  Would be considered sick humour.  Been to one of Frankies shows and comes out with much worse hurty words.

They're both now way tamer than they used to be and more often than not their truly offensive jokes are not aimed at an individual who could sue (the Harvey Price line is years old)

4 hours ago, Winco said:

The world is truly fucked when you can’t offend someone or be deemed a criminal for other than bad taste a pissed up comment.

The man has lost everything fucking nonces get less shit than he has.

Don't though do they? Nonces (quite rightly) get hounded out of town.

[Otto_Man]

4 hours ago, mkowl said:

Is that the law courts that recently bent over backwards to do what Starmer asked. My respect for a free thinking judiciary system is long gone 

When has the judiciary system ever been free thinking? The two most senior lawyers in the country are almost always MPs or sitting Lords (attorney and solicitor generals).

It's not like the whole system isn't fucking rigged anyway, just ask winco 😉

[mkowl]

3 hours ago, Andyben said:

They'd hound your clients

I think quite a few would relish the challenge of telling the left wing woke mob to fuck off and die 

[Owling_Wolf]

1 hour ago, mkowl said:

I think quite a few would relish the challenge of telling the left wing woke mob to fuck off and die 

**Faints**

[Reesh]

5 hours ago, Otto_Man said:

They're both now way tamer than they used to be and more often than not their truly offensive jokes are not aimed at an individual who could sue (the Harvey Price line is years old)

Don't though do they? Nonces (quite rightly) get hounded out of town.

Huw Edwards wasn't even hounded out of the BBC, he probably got a fucking pay rise off the *****.

[Andyben]

8 minutes ago, Reesh said:

Huw Edwards wasn't even hounded out of the BBC, he probably got a fucking pay rise off the *****.

He did....

[Tylluan]

Today, at work, we had a course delivered by two employment lawyers about how to make sure we were watertight if we ever went to a tribunal. 

At lunch I explained I was a Wednesday fan and asked for their take on the sacking. Their view was that this is happening more and more now but when they're contacted by companies over things like this they always advise the following. 

Make sure there's not been the slightest hint of a mental health red flag that's not been covered off and documented. If the company has gone down the 'protecting the image' route then they need to make sure they're squeaky clean on anything that's ever come out of the company from anybody linked to the company and they'd include 3rd parties and contractors in that. 

[Reesh]

7 hours ago, Tylluan said:

Today, at work, we had a course delivered by two employment lawyers about how to make sure we were watertight if we ever went to a tribunal. 

At lunch I explained I was a Wednesday fan and asked for their take on the sacking. Their view was that this is happening more and more now but when they're contacted by companies over things like this they always advise the following. 

Make sure there's not been the slightest hint of a mental health red flag that's not been covered off and documented. If the company has gone down the 'protecting the image' route then they need to make sure they're squeaky clean on anything that's ever come out of the company from anybody linked to the company and they'd include 3rd parties and contractors in that. 

So what you're saying is play the mental health card if you get caught, sorted 

[Tylluan]

2 minutes ago, Reesh said:

So what you're saying is play the mental health card if you get caught, sorted 

Only if you've previously played it and it hadn't been acted on in the 'correct' manner. 

I used to be a disciplinary/capability investigator at a previous company and had to make sure all the relevant EAP, Occupational health, access to work, doctor notes, internal performance plans, back to work plans, and everything else had been properly documented and acted on before even getting to the stage of having a documented chat with the person and their union rep. 

Lost count of the number of times I had to throw stuff out, before it even got to interview stage, because the manager just wanted someone out of their area so tried to throw them under the bus. Several times I had to start disciplinary actions against said managers for not following HR policy. 

Given evidence at four unfair dismissal tribunals and the cross examinations are horrendous but at every one the judge has thrown out anything that wasn't signposted while in employment 

[mkowl]

1 hour ago, Reesh said:

So what you're saying is play the mental health card if you get caught, sorted 

Why you worked on a self employed basis for me. 

[mkowl]

8 hours ago, Tylluan said:

Today, at work, we had a course delivered by two employment lawyers about how to make sure we were watertight if we ever went to a tribunal. 

At lunch I explained I was a Wednesday fan and asked for their take on the sacking. Their view was that this is happening more and more now but when they're contacted by companies over things like this they always advise the following. 

Make sure there's not been the slightest hint of a mental health red flag that's not been covered off and documented. If the company has gone down the 'protecting the image' route then they need to make sure they're squeaky clean on anything that's ever come out of the company from anybody linked to the company and they'd include 3rd parties and contractors in that. 

Interesting take, because you probably know a lot more than me, but the bit I have seen is the legal wrangling and then dealing with the financial payout tax position.

The myth that managers ever leave football by mutual consent. When the caveat should be - subject to agreeing my pay off. 

And that compensation is paid the next month. My now retired Scottish manager on one occasion it was nearly 2 years later.

So it would be zero surprise in this case if unfair dismissal proceedings were instigated. Not that I don't have empathy for the Wates Group, the social media lynch mob just wanted their pound of flesh and to appease them and their company reputation they acted swiftly. But said lynch mob won't care about the stress it has caused then or indeed in future if there is legal redress.

Yes actions have consequences but for me that is going way beyond the "crime" committed. And that those consequences are wider spread than just the chap himself but others and those are hidden from sight

[Reesh]

37 minutes ago, mkowl said:

Why you worked on a self employed basis for me. 

Yeah but I was traumatised.....

[mkowl]

1 hour ago, Reesh said:

Yeah but I was traumatised.....

I was I had to review your work and still fucking pay you 

 

[mkowl]

1 hour ago, Reesh said:

Yeah but I was traumatised.....

Me driving through Birmingham that day certainly left me traumatised about what Britain had become .............

[Reesh]

50 minutes ago, mkowl said:

I was I had to review your work and still fucking pay you 

 

Yeah about the underpayments........... 🙂

[mkowl]

1 hour ago, Reesh said:

Yeah about the underpayments........... 🙂

Offset by the lies on the 47 subsequent job references I have done 

[lobster]

14 hours ago, Tylluan said:

Today, at work, we had a course delivered by two employment lawyers about how to make sure we were watertight if we ever went to a tribunal. 

At lunch I explained I was a Wednesday fan and asked for their take on the sacking. Their view was that this is happening more and more now but when they're contacted by companies over things like this they always advise the following. 

Make sure there's not been the slightest hint of a mental health red flag that's not been covered off and documented. If the company has gone down the 'protecting the image' route then they need to make sure they're squeaky clean on anything that's ever come out of the company from anybody linked to the company and they'd include 3rd parties and contractors in that. 

My niece was HR Director for a Major software business ,she used to have horrendous problems with this . Needless to say she was dealing wih " geeks" who at best are on a different astral plain at worst borderline autistic, they would post  all sorts of derogatory and offensive remarks on the companies own internal email for all the company to see . Unfortunately given the nature of the business the senior Management took the view of " who was the most valuable to the business " on deceiding what action to take . More often than not it was the offendee rather than the offender that was paid off and let go

[EastCraigsOwl]

24 minutes ago, lobster said:

More often than not it was the offendee rather than the offender that was paid off and let go

So, if they didn't take offence, they would still have a job?

I like this.

[lobster]

29 minutes ago, EastCraigsOwl said:

So, if they didn't take offence, they would still have a job?

I like this.

The problem is that there is allways somebody that takes offence even if it is not directed towards them

[KrolMong]

Ive seen this more and more @Tylluan

But even to the point of general grievances. So, as an example, clear case of bullying, the ‘bully’ being a person who is highly valued.

So, the complainant/victim is offered a CA to leave and not take the matter further, with an above average pay-off. The accused is simply asked to go on an improvement course but there is no further action taken.

When I say ‘offered’, it’s enforced.

[Winco]

Strange to me all this, been in motor trade 30 years and every “grievance” I’ve encountered usually ends up with a straightener involved and/or a fucking crow bar.

 

[mkowl]

12 minutes ago, Winco said:

Strange to me all this, been in motor trade 30 years and every “grievance” I’ve encountered usually ends up with a straightener involved and/or a fucking crow bar.

 

I can get very nasty with a stapler and some paperclips 

I mean you definitely have the better method thats for sure and no legal fees either 

[owl71]

HR!  That’s the game to be in these days.  Never ending growth industry dealing with the terminally offended, anxious, concerned or “neurodiverse”.  That’s the new buzzword.  Nobody is a bit tapped anymore, just neurodiverse.  It’s all so much fucking easier than taking the time and effort to become good at something that’s actually fucking useful.

Anyway, there are edgy opinions.  Then there is genuine wit.  Then there is just stupid fucking wind ups.  The bloke who got banned and fired for “taking the piss” out of the dead Baggies fan was clearly in the final category. Not funny and not interesting.  But if everyone got fired for that, not many of us would still be doing any work. 🤷

[lobster]

9 hours ago, Winco said:

Strange to me all this, been in motor trade 30 years and every “grievance” I’ve encountered usually ends up with a straightener involved and/or a fucking crow bar.

 

I worked in property for a few years same applies but it was a 2 by 4

[mkowl]

4 hours ago, owl71 said:

HR!  That’s the game to be in these days.  Never ending growth industry dealing with the terminally offended, anxious, concerned or “neurodiverse”.  That’s the new buzzword.  Nobody is a bit tapped anymore, just neurodiverse.  It’s all so much fucking easier than taking the time and effort to become good at something that’s actually fucking useful.

Anyway, there are edgy opinions.  Then there is genuine wit.  Then there is just stupid fucking wind ups.  The bloke who got banned and fired for “taking the piss” out of the dead Baggies fan was clearly in the final category. Not funny and not interesting.  But if everyone got fired for that, not many of us would still be doing any work. 🤷

HR could have a field day today looking for jokes about balconies and the One Direction you don't want to head if you fall from one.

 

[mkowl]

I mean it's a tragic event - but it's a sort of barometer as to how the world perhaps changes over what you say 

By that I mean when Rod Hull fell off his roof the piss taking was immediate eg what were Rod Hull's last words - "fly yer bastard fly". 

I suppose it re-iterates what I said before that bad taste humour is a way of deflecting from thinking about the event itself - what is better for your mental state laughing about shit or dwelling on the misery.

Society and perhaps what became the Dianaification of grief as sort of become the norm and other ways are scorned. Religion sort of lead the way for centuries, but social media now dictates it. Lo if you don't follow our rules we will hound you, cancel you ruin your life. 

You are told to share grief, be around people, talk. But fuck that I wanted to be alone, in a dark room listening to Mogwai. 

[Reesh]

Just now, mkowl said:

I mean it's a tragic event - but it's a sort of barometer as to how the world perhaps changes over what you say 

By that I mean when Rod Hull fell off his roof the piss taking was immediate eg what were Rod Hull's last words - "fly yer bastard fly". 

I suppose it re-iterates what I said before that bad taste humour is a way of deflecting from thinking about the event itself - what is better for your mental state laughing about shit or dwelling on the misery.

Society and perhaps what became the Dianaification of grief as sort of become the norm and other ways are scorned. Religion sort of lead the way for centuries, but social media now dictates it. Lo if you don't follow our rules we will hound you, cancel you ruin your life. 

You are told to share grief, be around people, talk. But fuck that I wanted to be alone, in a dark room listening to Mogwai. 

I've just posted a joke status about Liam Payne being in One Direction

 

Downwards.

[mkowl]

1 minute ago, Reesh said:

I've just posted a joke status about Liam Payne being in One Direction

 

Downwards.

I mean it's a sick joke starter pack this one. 

Anyway given I have the email address for your current boss I am going to tell him about your insensitivity .....

And demand you are given a payrise 

[EastCraigsOwl]

21 hours ago, lobster said:

The problem is that there is allways somebody that takes offence even if it is not directed towards them

That's not a problem. Simply don't take offence and their job will be safe. Nothing wrong with that.

[Vialli]

I've known Rich for sometime now. Ive worked away with him and socialised with him. I can honestly say, hes a genuine nice guy. I have never heard anything vile come out of his mouth in the 15+years I've known him. Whatever was going through is head when he typed is beyond me. I haven't been in contact with him since this happened.  I will always be mates with Rich, I know he will be a mess about all this.

[Reesh]

22 minutes ago, Vialli said:

I've known Rich for sometime now. Ive worked away with him and socialised with him. I can honestly say, hes a genuine nice guy. I have never heard anything vile come out of his mouth in the 15+years I've known him. Whatever was going through is head when he typed is beyond me. I haven't been in contact with him since this happened.  I will always be mates with Rich, I know he will be a mess about all this.

Have you seen some of his X posts prior to this, bloke is a bit behind the fucking door.

[Vialli]

33 minutes ago, Reesh said:

Have you seen some of his X posts prior to this, bloke is a bit behind the fucking door.

I have mate, he's always had a weird sense of humour. Like said, I've never heard any of that shit come out of mouth.  He's probably a kind of keyboard warrior.

[Owling_Wolf]

12 hours ago, mkowl said:

I mean it's a tragic event - but it's a sort of barometer as to how the world perhaps changes over what you say 

By that I mean when Rod Hull fell off his roof the piss taking was immediate eg what were Rod Hull's last words - "fly yer bastard fly". 

I suppose it re-iterates what I said before that bad taste humour is a way of deflecting from thinking about the event itself - what is better for your mental state laughing about shit or dwelling on the misery.

Society and perhaps what became the Dianaification of grief as sort of become the norm and other ways are scorned. Religion sort of lead the way for centuries, but social media now dictates it. Lo if you don't follow our rules we will hound you, cancel you ruin your life. 

You are told to share grief, be around people, talk. But fuck that I wanted to be alone, in a dark room listening to Mogwai. 

How did the Jungle Book help?  🙁

[Tylluan]

On 16/10/2024 at 15:25, KrolMong said:

, the complainant/victim is offered a CA to leave and not take the matter further, with an above average pay-off. The accused is simply asked to go on an improvement course but there is no further action taken.

When I say ‘offered’, it’s enforced.

Just like the BBC paying off the black stage hand yet only issuing Brendan O'Carroll a 'final written warning' after his on set racist slur because they didn't want to lose the show that will probably pull their highest viewing figures over Christmas