Will we Baggie all three points back at home?

[mkowl]

2 minutes ago, Harry Lime said:

No way would I call you a liar, I'm just not like that and for what it's worth I don't think you are anyway. I have a feeling you started calling for the stand to be knocked down when it became de rigueur to think like that and over the years you've convinced yourself you said it the day after the event. As the late Queen might say, recollections may vary.

As for the "metaphorical albatross circling above us." Don't be an old drama queen, it doesn't suit you.

Sorry to learn about your key witness BTW. May they RIP.

I will repeat it was an immediate reaction - one I have repeated over the last 35 years.

Like many I have grown fed up of the debate, the media scrutiny. Perhaps my view now is that until the permanent structure is removed we have no hope of moving on. Not that we can ever remove it from our history, but there are now almost 2 generations of football fans who see it as a memorial to the dead but more how we disregarded safety, have not learned at all, make the same mistakes 

[Harry Lime]

49 minutes ago, Hirstys 12th Pint said:

Wednesday fan getting hammered on Twitter for comments made re yesterdays passing.  

Looks to have a history with some 'edgy' tweets.

He sounds a right buffoon. What sort of person says things like that. Nasty xxxxxxx.

[Harry Lime]

15 minutes ago, mkowl said:

I will repeat it was an immediate reaction - one I have repeated over the last 35 years.

Like many I have grown fed up of the debate, the media scrutiny. Perhaps my view now is that until the permanent structure is removed we have no hope of moving on. Not that we can ever remove it from our history, but there are now almost 2 generations of football fans who see it as a memorial to the dead but more how we disregarded safety, have not learned at all, make the same mistakes 

OK, keep your hair on. 😂

[Skamp]

7 hours ago, owl4ever1867 said:

RIP to WBA fan who sadly passed away yesterday, nobody should go to a football game & not return home to their loved ones.

My thoughts are with his family and friends.

I think that comment belongs to a disaster or a stabbing etc. not a medical condition.

Same could be said about no one goes to work not expecting to come back.  Or fishing etc.

[Andyben]

1 hour ago, Hirstys 12th Pint said:

Wednesday fan getting hammered on Twitter for comments made re yesterdays passing.  

Looks to have a history with some 'edgy' tweets.

Wasn't me...for once 

[Paul from Wisewood]

2 hours ago, Hirstys 12th Pint said:

Wednesday fan getting hammered on Twitter for comments made re yesterdays passing.  

Looks to have a history with some 'edgy' tweets.

Looks a reyt ***** 

[Hirstys 12th Pint]

51 minutes ago, Paul from Wisewood said:

Looks a reyt ***** 

Does doesn't he.  Proper deviant.

[80s Owl]

4 hours ago, Skamp said:

I think that comment belongs to a disaster or a stabbing etc. not a medical condition.

Same could be said about no one goes to work not expecting to come back.  Or fishing etc.

I'm actually glad you've pointed this out, this "not return home" thing seems to have become a cliched comment after every footy related death, I don't really want to do anything and not return home (except an affair maybe, that would work) but inevitably I won't one day.

[mkowl]

8 hours ago, 80s Owl said:

I'm actually glad you've pointed this out, this "not return home" thing seems to have become a cliched comment after every footy related death, I don't really want to do anything and not return home (except an affair maybe, that would work) but inevitably I won't one day.

I trust Mrs 80s Owl wouldn't want you getting back too early either !

 

 

[Skamp]

Wednesday taking a right slating again on social media over this tragic incident.

Duty of care

Disgrace of a club

How many more?

And so on

[Winco]

14 hours ago, Hirstys 12th Pint said:

Wednesday fan getting hammered on Twitter for comments made re yesterdays passing.  

Looks to have a history with some 'edgy' tweets.

It’s Vialli’s mate and he says his account was hacked. I don’t know him but Vialli reckons he’s sound guy and has already put a post out on Facebook denying it. Apparently been getting threatened at home and been threatened with the sack.

[Andyben]

40 minutes ago, Skamp said:

Wednesday taking a right slating again on social media over this tragic incident.

Duty of care

Disgrace of a club

How many more?

And so on

It's already up to a "15 minute wait" in the papers - no doubt it'll get longer & longer before the day's out

[Andyben]

26 minutes ago, Winco said:

It’s Vialli’s mate and he says his account was hacked. I don’t know him but Vialli reckons he’s sound guy and has already put a post out on Facebook denying it. Apparently been getting threatened at home and been threatened with the sack.

Isn't he a leicester fan?

[Winco]

56 minutes ago, Andyben said:

Isn't he a leicester fan?

No the guy who’s Viallis pal is Wednesday fan, he’s been getting some right stick over a comment he supposedly made.

sure Vialli said it was on Facebook 

[Andyben]

3 minutes ago, Winco said:

No the guy who’s Viallis pal is Wednesday fan, he’s been getting some right stick over a comment he supposedly made.

sure Vialli said it was on Facebook 

His surnames Crisp....

[mkowl]

2 hours ago, Skamp said:

Wednesday taking a right slating again on social media over this tragic incident.

Duty of care

Disgrace of a club

How many more?

And so on

People may not agree with my comments yesterday about the West Stand 

But my point is aren't the rest of you fed up with the constant and growing complaints about that end. Some of these may be off the mark some possibly are fully on it 

Yes we can say other grounds are as poor etc, but as parochial as we are, perhaps they have a point. 

[80s Owl]

I might get pelters here but – what Mr Crisp said and has said in the past on social media is deplorable but his employers and golf club have been contacted and asked to take action and his family have been found and abused, again his comments were wrong but should he not just be banned from the sites where he made the comments and not lose his livelihood, his hobby and possibly his family? 

[fOWLmouth]

55 minutes ago, mkowl said:

People may not agree with my comments yesterday about the West Stand 

But my point is aren't the rest of you fed up with the constant and growing complaints about that end. Some of these may be off the mark some possibly are fully on it 

Yes we can say other grounds are as poor etc, but as parochial as we are, perhaps they have a point. 

What happened on Saturday was obviously a very sad event but one that happens every day in numerous locations.To link it to the West Stand because 96 people died there in a totally unrelated incident 35 years ago is ridiculous.
Of course, the stand in its current form will always be a reminder of that day.But replacing it won’t necessarily be the answer,a lot of people will always associate the names Leppings Lane and Hillsborough with what happened.

The stand is unlikely to be any worse or better than others of its era.If it is inherently dangerous it would be closed rather than limited by the amount of people allowed to use it.

 

 

[80s Owl]

The man who made the comments has been arrested now by all accounts.

[Hirstys 12th Pint]

30 minutes ago, 80s Owl said:

The man who made the comments has been arrested now by all accounts.

And lost his job.  His employers have put a statement out. 

[Supercockle]

They'll not be happy until he's topped himself. 

[Andyben]

Be mad if the bloke had a heart attack due to a massive coke problem or something 

[mkowl]

2 hours ago, fOWLmouth said:

What happened on Saturday was obviously a very sad event but one that happens every day in numerous locations.To link it to the West Stand because 96 people died there in a totally unrelated incident 35 years ago is ridiculous.
Of course, the stand in its current form will always be a reminder of that day.But replacing it won’t necessarily be the answer,a lot of people will always associate the names Leppings Lane and Hillsborough with what happened.

The stand is unlikely to be any worse or better than others of its era.If it is inherently dangerous it would be closed rather than limited by the amount of people allowed to use it.

 

 

You are missing the point to a fashion

I am not linking the 2 events directly - just saying whilst ever that stand exists in its current guise any event that arises there (which I concur happens at other grounds on occasion) immediately gets related back by other club fans, the media to that date 

The history cannot be erased, nor should it, but the fact it stands barely changed in reality since 1989, means it is there

I won't comment on the events on Saturday beyond if there is any semblance of truth then its yet another own goal, another stick to have a go at us and I question those responsible. Because that could have been any of the stands, a Wednesday fan. 

We need to stop defending the Clubs actions or using whataboutery IF there are failings - wouldn't you / shouldn't you be annoyed if fans safety is compromised anywhere in the ground. Take off the blue and white glasses 

 

[mkowl]

33 minutes ago, Hirstys 12th Pint said:

And lost his job.  His employers have put a statement out. 

10 seconds on X being edgy can be quite costly these days 

Lose your job, go to prison etc. 

[mkowl]

9 minutes ago, Andyben said:

Be mad if the bloke had a heart attack due to a massive coke problem or something 

I concur those new tops to the soft drink bottles are well annoying 

[fOWLmouth]

4 minutes ago, mkowl said:

You are missing the point to a fashion

I am not linking the 2 events directly - just saying whilst ever that stand exists in its current guise any event that arises there (which I concur happens at other grounds on occasion) immediately gets related back by other club fans, the media to that date 

The history cannot be erased, nor should it, but the fact it stands barely changed in reality since 1989, means it is there

I won't comment on the events on Saturday beyond if there is any semblance of truth then its yet another own goal, another stick to have a go at us and I question those responsible. Because that could have been any of the stands, a Wednesday fan. 

We need to stop defending the Clubs actions or using whataboutery IF there are failings - wouldn't you / shouldn't you be annoyed if fans safety is compromised anywhere in the ground. Take off the blue and white glasses 

 

Firstly,I wasn’t directing my point about the connection to previous events at you as such.I also understand your point about the stand,I don’t think it is necessarily the answer.

Re the time taken to deal with Saturdays emergency I can’t say either way due to reading conflicting accounts. The fact is,nobody can cover every eventuality when something like that happens.A balance is taken on how many staff are needed,where defibrillators are positioned etc..It is not a case of defending the club, it’s looking at practicalities and commonly used standards.

[Billysboy]

1 hour ago, mkowl said:

You are missing the point to a fashion

I am not linking the 2 events directly - just saying whilst ever that stand exists in its current guise any event that arises there (which I concur happens at other grounds on occasion) immediately gets related back by other club fans, the media to that date 

The history cannot be erased, nor should it, but the fact it stands barely changed in reality since 1989, means it is there

I won't comment on the events on Saturday beyond if there is any semblance of truth then its yet another own goal, another stick to have a go at us and I question those responsible. Because that could have been any of the stands, a Wednesday fan. 

We need to stop defending the Clubs actions or using whataboutery IF there are failings - wouldn't you / shouldn't you be annoyed if fans safety is compromised anywhere in the ground. Take off the blue and white glasses 

 

The area where the deaths occurred in 89 has been changed with the seating. If some poor twat had died in the areas of Valley Parade or Ibrox where terrible tragedys happened would we be getting these reactions, would we fuck, the faux outrage goes to another level when its Hillsborough.

[Harry Lime]

[80s Owl]

Another fan allegedly at Hillsborough on camera putting his hand over his heart then doing the W (anchor emoji) sign towards the away end.

[HoylandOwl]

Sigh. 
It’s just very sad from every point of view. 
No one should go to a game and then not come home, and no one should post anything so derogatory, ‘In jest’ or not. 

[M42Owl]

6 minutes ago, 80s Owl said:

Another fan allegedly at Hillsborough on camera putting his hand over his heart then doing the W (anchor emoji) sign towards the away end.

Was I missing something on Saturday?

Was I too engrossed in the match to see what was going on in the LL end? Although I did pick up some booing and arm waving that I was a bit perplexed by.

It was only later in the evening when I had chance to catch up on line that I became aware of a medical incident: later fatality. Was it general knowledge in the Wednesday sections of the crowd that someone was seriously ill?

So I think any W-anchor gestures towards the away end, with or without hand on heart, is just a coincidence. It happens match after match. Nothing sinister in it, just an unfortunate coincidence.

 

And whilst I’m posting on the issue: this 10 / 15 minute response time. How many fans, seeing someone taken ill, decided the best course of action was to take out their stopwatch? How many decided shouting and waving of arms was preferable to actually approaching a steward? How many of those 10 / 15 minutes passed before the alarm was actually raised with a steward who could then call the medics? 

 

[fOWLmouth]

1 minute ago, M42Owl said:

Was I missing something on Saturday?

Was I too engrossed in the match to see what was going on in the LL end? Although I did pick up some booing and arm waving that I was a bit perplexed by.

It was only later in the evening when I had chance to catch up on line that I became aware of a medical incident: later fatality. Was it general knowledge in the Wednesday sections of the crowd that someone was seriously ill?

So I think any W-anchor gestures towards the away end, with or without hand on heart, is just a coincidence. It happens match after match. Nothing sinister in it, just an unfortunate coincidence.

 

And whilst I’m posting on the issue: this 10 / 15 minute response time. How many fans, seeing someone taken ill, decided the best course of action was to take out their stopwatch? How many decided shouting and waving of arms was preferable to actually approaching a steward? How many of those 10 / 15 minutes passed before the alarm was actually raised with a steward who could then call the medics? 

 

I’m with you on not noticing or realising what had happened until later.If the play had stopped then It would have become apparent I expect.

[mkowl]

1 hour ago, Billysboy said:

The area where the deaths occurred in 89 has been changed with the seating. If some poor twat had died in the areas of Valley Parade or Ibrox where terrible tragedys happened would we be getting these reactions, would we fuck, the faux outrage goes to another level when its Hillsborough.

I don't disagree with that per se 

But it sort of answers my point - whilst there is a stand that basically still looks the same, then these reactions will continue to happen. It gets into the thinking of fans, any minor issue does get exaggerated, some in the media desperate to make a point and guess what they get a reaction so they will keep writing the stories. 

And what are we talking about, what is the story in the media, a good performance against the top of the table or this. Like v Newcastle. You can see a bandwagon starting, close it down etc. Which would then reduce the capacity to what 28,000 and displace 2000 or 3000 Wednesday fans or limit them at some point

I fully appreciate knocking that stand down does not stop this but it may be a start  

[fOWLmouth]

28 minutes ago, HoylandOwl said:

no one should post anything so derogatory

I don’t understand people bringing about their own downfall.How many times do we see this happening,yet some individuals don’t learn from others mistakes.

[Tarquin1867]

15 minutes ago, fOWLmouth said:

I’m with you on not noticing or realising what had happened until later.If the play had stopped then It would have become apparent I expect.

There is a diktat out from the EFL about medical emergencies in the crowd , it says not to stop play which is I assume what the ref told the players who were pointing out all the WBA fans waving for him to stop the game.

[bradowl]

4 hours ago, Hirstys 12th Pint said:

And lost his job.  His employers have put a statement out. 

Apparently had a very good job too as a project manager. 

[Skamp]

Not diminishing what this person has said, although I've not seen it nor wish to, I'm not sure what an employment tribunal will make of this if he's not used a company account.

[Beaconowl]

1 minute ago, Skamp said:

Not diminishing what this person has said, although I've not seen it nor wish to, I'm not sure what an employment tribunal will make of this if he's not used a company account.

My thoughts exactly, could be a very dangerous can of worms being opened 

[Paul from Wisewood]

6 hours ago, 80s Owl said:

I might get pelters here but – what Mr Crisp said and has said in the past on social media is deplorable but his employers and golf club have been contacted and asked to take action and his family have been found and abused, again his comments were wrong but should he not just be banned from the sites where he made the comments and not lose his livelihood, his hobby and possibly his family? 

Chat shit, get banged 

 

up 

[Reesh]

23 minutes ago, Skamp said:

Not diminishing what this person has said, although I've not seen it nor wish to, I'm not sure what an employment tribunal will make of this if he's not used a company account.

To be fair looking at his timeline before it disappeared it's hardly a one off.

[fOWLmouth]

Apparently,West Brom have written to the EFL asking them to investigate the death of the supporter,particularly the alleged delay in paramedics arriving to give treatment.

Article on The Guardian website and also on BBC Look North soon,after the main news.

[mkowl]

29 minutes ago, Skamp said:

Not diminishing what this person has said, although I've not seen it nor wish to, I'm not sure what an employment tribunal will make of this if he's not used a company account.

Probably a very widely drawn and generic clause about disrepute to the company. So I could remove someone if they had a fight on a Saturday night and nowt to do with work. 

Why Reesh was self employed when he was doing work for me 

[mkowl]

Just now, fOWLmouth said:

Apparently,West Brom have written to the EFL asking them to investigate the death of the supporter,particularly the alleged delay in paramedics arriving to give treatment.

Article on The Guardian website and also on BBC Look North soon,after the main news.

Can't really argue if there is merit to the claims. 

[holmesfield_owl]

I've seen it and read as a stupid post by someone who has probably drank too much and thought their tongue in cheek humour was funny.

It wasn't and he's lost his job, ever being in Hillsborough, a great a deal of what ever respect he had and if he doesn't sort his shit no doubt his family. So next time you're pissed everyone, leave your phone in your pocket.

[Skamp]

13 minutes ago, mkowl said:

Probably a very widely drawn and generic clause about disrepute to the company. So I could remove someone if they had a fight on a Saturday night and nowt to do with work. 

 

Until Wates put out a statement, did anyone know he worked at Wates?

[Billysboy]

2 hours ago, mkowl said:

I don't disagree with that per se 

But it sort of answers my point - whilst there is a stand that basically still looks the same, then these reactions will continue to happen. It gets into the thinking of fans, any minor issue does get exaggerated, some in the media desperate to make a point and guess what they get a reaction so they will keep writing the stories. 

And what are we talking about, what is the story in the media, a good performance against the top of the table or this. Like v Newcastle. You can see a bandwagon starting, close it down etc. Which would then reduce the capacity to what 28,000 and displace 2000 or 3000 Wednesday fans or limit them at some point

I fully appreciate knocking that stand down does not stop this but it may be a start  

The stand definitely  needs flattening, but it should be when we wish to and can afford to, not just to satisfy the mob.

[Tylluan]

The timing of the 'start' of the emergency can be logged as TV/radio both mention the fans waving. The time paramedics attended will have been logged as will the arrival of the ambulance and the time booked into Northern General. The only timing generalisation is how long the stewards took to attend, between the crowd waving and the paramedics arriving. 

The EFL should have no jurisdiction over what time and how long it took medical professionals to attend. Won't matter though if they need to deflect away from their new ruling which meant the game wasn't stopped. 

What I have noticed though, as far as I'm aware, is the family are staying quiet over any timings and lack of/delay in medical attendance. It's others that are vocalising. 

[Reesh]

Limbs

 

[Otto_Man]

3 hours ago, 80s Owl said:

Another fan allegedly at Hillsborough on camera putting his hand over his heart then doing the W (anchor emoji) sign towards the away end.

No way they could have known it was a heart attack whilst still at the game, surely just a very (un)lucky guess?

1 hour ago, Skamp said:

Until Wates put out a statement, did anyone know he worked at Wates?

Presumably everyone who works there knows he works there and it's surely also reasonable to assume they know what's happened seeing as SYP have named him. 

Reputational damage can be swift and lasting which has led to firms being much more keen to be seen to be acting upon these things.

I'm constantly telling my 14 year old that freedom of speech isn't freedom from the consequences of what you choose to say.

[Reesh]

1 hour ago, Skamp said:

Until Wates put out a statement, did anyone know he worked at Wates?

He had it in his bio FFS.