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Chansiri appeals for cash.


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That's me not sleeping tonight then. The negative fans need to cough up £2M due to cash flow problems. HMRC hasn't been paid and quite possibly neither will the players be this month. It's just one thing after the other with our club isn't it, just had a good win and now this. Or is he on the wind up, you just never know with our owner. Of course the Stir are revelling in it, whilst I swear I'm touching cloth or soon will be. I could possibly raise a couple of hundred though if that's any good to him.

 

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So all those who want him out have been abusing his family and screaming he as ruined the club - not all fans though !!
Have pushed him over edge - whether he as cash flow issues or not - and we know he’s had them before!! .. Daddy not paying his allowance or the fact construction (which his supposedly his income stream) in Asia is fucked (read about China! ) We are now about to all walk into a very bad situation on the playing field re the cycle of prolonged embargo .. not off it as I think ultimately he’ll pay everything off!
Wouldn’t mind but that hardly been any fucking abuse in the ground it’s all been online !

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Adam Shaw says he wants in! He’s got the cash … if he steps up and pays the bill we know he’s for real! Or any of the other groups - who would have to do it publicly now .. whilst before I was against such action -

DC gone out of his way to ask for it to be done so!!

 

This is the best opportunity to ASK Chansiri to sell up re Reading style protest! Show up with 2 million someone as that spare DC on record to say he’ll pay it back with interest 

 

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10 minutes ago, EBRA said:

Adam Shaw says he wants in! He’s got the cash … if he steps up and pays the bill we know he’s for real! Or any of the other groups - who would have to do it publicly now .. whilst before I was against such action -

DC gone out of his way to ask for it to be done so!!

 

This is the best opportunity to ASK Chansiri to sell up re Reading style protest! Show up with 2 million someone as that spare DC on record to say he’ll pay it back with interest 

 

Was about to post exactly the same about Shaw!!! However there is more chance of me shagging a prime Jennifer Anniston up the the shit pipe. But we all knew this anyway.

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5 hours ago, Bellsview said:

I think (hope) he’s making a deliberate point! 

And if he is then I don’t blame him.

Seriously no one would jest about this to make a point - would they.

To say that players may not be paid, there could be further EFL sanctions etc etc it would be one sick joke to play.

The only call he should be making today is to my mate at Begbie Traynor - insolvency experts 

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40 minutes ago, EBRA said:

So all those who want him out have been abusing his family and screaming he as ruined the club - not all fans though !!
Have pushed him over edge - whether he as cash flow issues or not - and we know he’s had them before!! .. Daddy not paying his allowance or the fact construction (which his supposedly his income stream) in Asia is fucked (read about China! ) We are now about to all walk into a very bad situation on the playing field re the cycle of prolonged embargo .. not off it as I think ultimately he’ll pay everything off!
Wouldn’t mind but that hardly been any fucking abuse in the ground it’s all been online !

That statement shows he is no longer the right person to own the Club. There is zero defence for him.

You have more confidence than me that he has the ability to pay these debts not simply the inclination

Ironically off to see my wealthiest client later, to talk IHT. My fail proof plan is to suggest he buys us and within a couple of years will avert any IHT issue 

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3 minutes ago, LiamOwl said:

How often do HMRC need paying?

Or rather, how soon are we potentially going to be in the same position again?

Every month on PAYE, I conservatively estimate at 500k per month. VAT will be quarterly. 

I am still not convinced the 8m owed as at 31st July 22 is settled in full. The issue is if you are on a payment plan, in theory one default makes it null and void and the full amount becomes immediately due.

But the terms usually mean you have to pay all ongoing liabilities on time as well as the arrears.

That is where your cash flow gets hit oh and the fact you got the revenue in season ticket sales 9 months ago and that is long gone.

 

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And some wonder why he gets a hard time. All this and prior issues are of his own making but the recent tactic is to gaslight the fan base.
 

How anyone has the ability to defend the man any longer baffles me and I have done for a fair amount of time til this summer. Any new owner at a club has to show they have funds available for a period of time to run a club and he’s failing that test. He had 29k people paying to be there at the weekend. We have an excellent manager who must be wondering what’s going on having taken a job and now isn’t being paid.

If it’s all a ploy to get to a minority of fans who threw some balls on the pitch then it will become a majority 

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12 minutes ago, mkowl said:

Every month on PAYE, I conservatively estimate at 500k per month. VAT will be quarterly. 

I am still not convinced the 8m owed as at 31st July 22 is settled in full. The issue is if you are on a payment plan, in theory one default makes it null and void and the full amount becomes immediately due.

But the terms usually mean you have to pay all ongoing liabilities on time as well as the arrears.

That is where your cash flow gets hit oh and the fact you got the revenue in season ticket sales 9 months ago and that is long gone.

 

So we’re already failing to pay yesterdays and todays bills, and tomorrows aren’t looking good either. 

 

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I was joking about bringing WTID back to life but asking 20000 fans for £100 each was the sort of plan back then.

Difference - that would have been for a genuine equity stake in the business.

So Mr Chansiri to do this properly a PLC needs to be formed, there is a formal re-structure of the business, the stadium etc. You take a massive haircut on your director loans. Fans get to invest for an actual equity stake in the PLC 

If you want us to show commitment to the Club then it comes at this price

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It’s quite astonishing to read that.

What is now 100% clear is that, as people thought, he’s completely run out of cash. This won’t be a one and done thing, this will be an ongoing issue that will not improve.

I sort of understand the sentiment of asking those vocal groups to chuck 2 million in, and I’ve said a few times that to get the owner out you need to find an owner to buy him out. But, I now think that he has to sell the club for whatever money someone is willing to pay for it. If the market value is 30 million, then that’s what it goes for.

He’s playing a very dangerous and very silly game, and this is only going to turn more supporters against him.

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5 minutes ago, Footlikeatractionengine said:

Could we (the fans) afford ongoing stadium costs? 

 

I'm sure we could raise £2m if it meant the stadium was under our control. Then he'd have a club that's worth is name and status only. 

Back in the corner for you.

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Just now, Reesh said:

It's a put up or shut up message to Shaw for me but it is still fucking embarrassing and I'm edging closer to the Chansiri out brigade.

No one in their right mind would short term fund the Club without undertaking minimum due diligence - that Chansiri would not permit I suspect.

If the cashflow was rectified this month, what about next. I am sure season ticket renewals will be mentioned next month and encouraged, might stave it off for a couple of months (Though anyone renewing caveat emptor) 

You have worked long enough in our trade to know when someone is chasing their tail and this is now.

I suspect the cash flow issue is genuine, the 2m per month he noted a couple of months back mentioned again. But that is 2m next month plus pay this 2m back plus interest. So that is 4m.

 

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2 minutes ago, KrolMong said:

It’s quite astonishing to read that.

What is now 100% clear is that, as people thought, he’s completely run out of cash. This won’t be a one and done thing, this will be an ongoing issue that will not improve.

I sort of understand the sentiment of asking those vocal groups to chuck 2 million in, and I’ve said a few times that to get the owner out you need to find an owner to buy him out. But, I now think that he has to sell the club for whatever money someone is willing to pay for it. If the market value is 30 million, then that’s what it goes for.

He’s playing a very dangerous and very silly game, and this is only going to turn more supporters against him.

The value of his shares is £1 

The consideration is said £1 plus the debt. 

His loan accounts are written down by 80% at least

But the reality is insolvency experts should be called forthwith. We are at that stage as far as I am concerned 

 

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4 minutes ago, mkowl said:

No one in their right mind would short term fund the Club without undertaking minimum due diligence - that Chansiri would not permit I suspect.

If the cashflow was rectified this month, what about next. I am sure season ticket renewals will be mentioned next month and encouraged, might stave it off for a couple of months (Though anyone renewing caveat emptor) 

You have worked long enough in our trade to know when someone is chasing their tail and this is now.

I suspect the cash flow issue is genuine, the 2m per month he noted a couple of months back mentioned again. But that is 2m next month plus pay this 2m back plus interest. So that is 4m.

 

Seems to be the same issue as during covid ie last time it was a championship wage bill. A few clubs were affected then but to now it seems less clear as an excuse to reference current affairs unless a few clubs are defaulting for the same reasons. Seems the entire thing is just run on credit and kicking the can down the road.

If he really wants the cash and help I think some people would but “contact the club” is a bit vague 

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2 minutes ago, TheExile said:

Is it negativity on social media that prevents investment or just a simple google on most of what he comes out with and the various embargoes he’s had us in?

For investment you want an equity stake. Pretty simple equation 

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1 minute ago, TheExile said:

Seems to be the same issue as during covid ie last time it was a championship wage bill. A few clubs were affected then but to now it seems less clear as an excuse to reference current affairs unless a few clubs are defaulting for the same reasons. Seems the entire thing is just run on credit and kicking the can down the road.

The Club is built on Chansiri funding the operational loss each season. It is fine until he runs out of immediate cash availability. Again we use the term asset rich cash poor fairly often in my line of work - usually for our farmers ! 

So Chansiri uses profits presumably from elsewhere in his unknown business empire to prop us up. What happened in covid and apparently now, is that cashflow dries up higher in the chain. You have to look after the profitable side as a priority 

None of those issues he refers to impacting this are disappearing soon. So it's a temporary fix at best, let's be clear this business model is a busted flush 

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Not defending him at all BUT if he's owed any money from China then its an issue as i have live examples of funds not being paid from the mainland that were due some time ago and are seemingly not coming anytime soon.

 

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This ‘statement’ has annoyed me more than any other for a host of reasons.

Yeah, he references the ‘group’ as at blame. FWIW don’t think they’ve helped ‘move things forward’ in the slightest. Because things haven’t moved forward at all. There’s no credible buyer come forward beside them; or from them AS THINGS STAND.

But…

what really takes the cake here from DC for me, are his two points about ‘higher earning’ staff and players not being paid their wages. 
So. Is that people in middle management like the commercial manager, whose dept is already criminally understaffed and has been punching above its weight?

Then of course, our new management team, who are flying after Sunday … who could be worrying about how they’re going to be purchasing their new homes? 
That’s without the players who’ve been through this before too here.

Finally. Saying we could end up in the national league if things don’t get paid. And WE need to chip in £100 each? To keep the club alive.

DC’s Cash flow isn’t the fans fault.
We’ve bought season tickets, we’ve bought shirts to ‘record levels’. We turned up on Sunday with reduced prices like DC said we don’t. 

I’ve stayed relatively level headed throughout this, I’ve not taken either side, tried to stay pragmatic which is what I always do. 

But his comment and I’m paraphrasing ‘paying the £2m then i’ll sell up’ is ludicrous. 

With this statement it’s got me thinking has he done this to find out if the ‘local but not local’ backer that’s been floating around for months to see if he puts his money where his mouth is? Is it another lure type situation to try and deflect from his own failings?

I loved Sunday, met up with a couple of mates and one in particular I’ve not seen for a few years, and enjoyed the football but once I’m home I didn’t really think much more about it. And that’s where it’s got me now. 

I’m sick of the circus now around things off the pitch, Absolutely sick to the back teeth of it. 

I’m not going to get embroiled in all this off pitch stuff. I’m not for one second and I would have done a few years ago. But. My family, my future and my mental health mean more to me than that. 

I love Wednesday and always will. That will never die. But I don’t love this ongoing shit

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39 minutes ago, mkowl said:

The Club is built on Chansiri funding the operational loss each season. It is fine until he runs out of immediate cash availability. Again we use the term asset rich cash poor fairly often in my line of work - usually for our farmers ! 

So Chansiri uses profits presumably from elsewhere in his unknown business empire to prop us up. What happened in covid and apparently now, is that cashflow dries up higher in the chain. You have to look after the profitable side as a priority 

None of those issues he refers to impacting this are disappearing soon. So it's a temporary fix at best, let's be clear this business model is a busted flush 

I guess it is when you don’t hold some funding in the bank to cover liabilities which is the starting point with the EFL

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The nature of what I do means I am going to take an interest in the off field stuff. But I concur for 2 hours on Sunday it was great just to watch the game, enjoy the football and the result.

Tee nails it about the constant circus with Chansiri. It is tiresome. But I think for his well being then he needs to actively seek a buyer for the Club. I am not naive to think that is an easy task, but proper stepping stones need to be instigated.

And to call this out, then if Chansiri wants fans to bail out the Club, then the demand is for an open book policy. The offer is there, let us accountants within the fan base see the truth before any fan is expected to part with a £1. I would give my services for nothing, I am sure others would too. 

Let's see the reality of our finances Mr Chansiri

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Well I guess you could say things have finally come to a head. I think this is genuine and we could be in for a very rocky road ahead. 
It is possible for DC to do a deal where he sells the club for £1 but keeps some or all of his loans in, and retains the ground at least for now. Can’t see it happening but it would be a way of sorting something quickly.

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1 minute ago, mkowl said:

The nature of what I do means I am going to take an interest in the off field stuff. But I concur for 2 hours on Sunday it was great just to watch the game, enjoy the football and the result.

Tee nails it about the constant circus with Chansiri. It is tiresome. But I think for his well being then he needs to actively seek a buyer for the Club. I am not naive to think that is an easy task, but proper stepping stones need to be instigated.

And to call this out, then if Chansiri wants fans to bail out the Club, then the demand is for an open book policy. The offer is there, let us accountants within the fan base see the truth before any fan is expected to part with a £1. I would give my services for nothing, I am sure others would too. 

Let's see the reality of our finances Mr Chansiri

Yep, I’d be up for that too

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He's been actively been seeking a buyer for years he just now needs to realise his valuation is way off the current market, we must hope he doesn't flog us to the first random to offer him owt near what he wants as that could be seen as going from the frying pan to the fire

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So here’s how I would be doing it right now.

Chansiri sells his shares for £1.

The amount he owes the club for the ground is offset against the amounts due to him, still leaving a large loan in his favour.

The loan becomes interest bearing, partly paid in cash and partly accrued. It becomes repayable on a sale event, promotion to the PL or at some future backstop date (where it could be renegotiated and rolled on).

The club also pays the actual rent to Chansiri for the ground going forward.

This is not ideal but, if someone out there really wants a go at running the club and has the deep pockets, it is effectively a way of doing a deferred deal quickly. DC would effectively become a lender rather than an owner.

There is an alternative version where DC sells the ground back in to the club and gets interest on an increased loan rather than rent, that might work better depending on the numbers.

Obviously this would need some proper thought and I haven’t really considered the P&S implications, but the bones of it feel like they would work to me.

It relies on some goodwill from DC as well so would see if he really does love the club as he claims. 

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14 minutes ago, Chelters said:

So here’s how I would be doing it right now.

Chansiri sells his shares for £1.

The amount he owes the club for the ground is offset against the amounts due to him, still leaving a large loan in his favour.

The loan becomes interest bearing, partly paid in cash and partly accrued. It becomes repayable on a sale event, promotion to the PL or at some future backstop date (where it could be renegotiated and rolled on).

The club also pays the actual rent to Chansiri for the ground going forward.

This is not ideal but, if someone out there really wants a go at running the club and has the deep pockets, it is effectively a way of doing a deferred deal quickly. DC would effectively become a lender rather than an owner.

There is an alternative version where DC sells the ground back in to the club and gets interest on an increased loan rather than rent, that might work better depending on the numbers.

Obviously this would need some proper thought and I haven’t really considered the P&S implications, but the bones of it feel like they would work to me.

It relies on some goodwill from DC as well so would see if he really does love the club as he claims. 

Well thats the heads of agreement sorted 👍

Just need the ones with deep pockets to sign up 

But in all seriousness we are at that stage. No more games from either Chansiri or potential acquirers 

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2 hours ago, mkowl said:

Seriously no one would jest about this to make a point - would they.

To say that players may not be paid, there could be further EFL sanctions etc etc it would be one sick joke to play.

The only call he should be making today is to my mate at Begbie Traynor - insolvency experts 

Story had more or less only just broken when I made that post, so I didn’t realise the gravity of the statement.

Now that I do know more I agree with the consensus on here. It’s both alarming and worrying and very much brings into question Chansiri’s ability to not just run the club, but pay the day to day bills!

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I was very concerned when DC was trying to push 10 year ST’s, hoping to get in sums of money to plug holes with no thought of what happens long term, he’s run out of cash at least for the moment and is trying to blame everyone but himself.

 

Terry nails it in his post earlier, we seem to have more debate and discussion about the owners business affairs/statements than we do what’s happening on the pitch and that’s never a good thing.

 

Just go.

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8 minutes ago, 80s Owl said:

I was very concerned when DC was trying to push 10 year ST’s, hoping to get in sums of money to plug holes with no thought of what happens long term, he’s run out of cash at least for the moment and is trying to blame everyone but himself.

 

Terry nails it in his post earlier, we seem to have more debate and discussion about the owners business affairs/statements than we do what’s happening on the pitch and that’s never a good thing.

 

Just go.

Didn’t rangers do something similar with long term STs ending in disaster

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14 minutes ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

Part of me hope it's a power move, fans fail to raise funds he comes in pays it and paints himself as our saviour

Fuckin idiot

It could all be a game of chicken but I think it might be genuine. This does feel like the endgame now, but quite how it will play out is the question. 

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He was asking for 60 million 2.5 years ago, and that was as a very recently relegated league one side, and was a job lot deal including the ground.

No-one would pay that money then, and the economic climate is so much worse, so what would a fair amount be now? 20-30 million? Better run clubs are going for that amount now. The fact is that he’s not going to recoup any of his losses because he’s the cause of those losses. The value of the football club should not incorporate his own losses - that’s his issue not the potential buyers.

He’s got to change tact, if he wants out, the process is the same, potential buyer submits a bid, and provides proof of funds, he opens the books up, and then if all is well, the sale can go through and the EFL can do there due diligence. But he’s now got to go to the table on all offers, and he has to be transparent with our own finances. Finally, he’s got to differentiate between his price and the market price.

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27 minutes ago, Neville Facking Bartos said:

Part of me hope it's a power move, fans fail to raise funds he comes in pays it and paints himself as our saviour

Fuckin idiot

I think he's irrevocably blown that possibility away as much with the tone of his latest words as with his mismanagement. 

 

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The one thing that is needed in this situation is calm heads. Sadly I don’t think we’ll get that from DC but the last thing we want to do as a fan base is to provoke him into completely throwing his toys out of the pram. He holds the fate of the club in his hands right now.

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8 minutes ago, Chelters said:

The one thing that is needed in this situation is calm heads. Sadly I don’t think we’ll get that from DC but the last thing we want to do as a fan base is to provoke him into completely throwing his toys out of the pram. He holds the fate of the club in his hands right now.

What a scary thought.

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